Heartland expansion

[Damien]

6 minutes ago, Eddie said:

I know, we’re saying the same thing. 

For example in Sheffield, as you keep mentioning them, if we had 3 development officers ring fenced for 5 years to engrain the game in schools and setup clubs then I'm sure the results would be much better than them coming and going in different areas. After 5 years that could reduce to 1 development officer to maintain and then we move on to somewhere else.

At times the RFL have had way more resources than this. When times are good yes spread the net wider but always make sure that certain core clusters are well targeted.

[fighting irish]

1 hour ago, Damien said:

We have development officers. How they are used is precisely my point

When you say ''We'' who do you mean? Which area, how big an area and how many development officers?

[DoubleD]

The RFL are not best positioned to undertake this, as has already been acknowledged by Sport England. It’s the professional clubs and their foundations who should be incentivised to do this. Some clubs only pay lip service to it 

[Damien]

10 minutes ago, fighting irish said:

When you say ''We'' who do you mean? Which area, how big an area and how many development officers?

The game, the RFL. The rest has already been discussed really.

[Lowdesert]

1 hour ago, Eddie said:

Development officers for sure. But the RFL can’t afford them, so it will be down to the generosity and good will of private individuals sadly. 
 

Three development officers in Sheffield would give the game there such a massive boost it would be unreal. 

Why 3 Eddie?

1 good one would be enough.

[Pottsy]

2 hours ago, Cumbrian Mackem said:

At grassroots level. What with the fantastic progress being made in the north east and also with the introduction or re-introduction of grassroots RL in towns like goole and Harrogate could we not replicate this in places like Preston, Blackburn, Stockport, Barnsley and Lancaster etc?

Theres still so much unexplored territory within and just outside of the game’s historic “heartland” in terms of untapped talent and potential new fans for our game.

There have been amateur clubs in most of the places you mention before and a pro club in Preston (albeit briefly). The problem is, they all need their own ecosystem made up of dedicated volunteers in order to thrive. Often when these clubs pop up they’re either run by one-man-bands or the RFL permit another club to be established on the doorstep. In both cases, it always ends to a sudden decline and death.

In short, the RFL can’t ‘magic up’ these volunteers but they can put structures in place to support them (eg. Club starter packs) and measures in place that encourage enthusiasts in the same area to work together rather than cannibalise all the local resources.

[Pottsy]

2 hours ago, JM2010 said:

It would be great if Sheffield had the money and could help to create new community clubs around South Yorkshire. Like you say it's quite a big population and there are lots of other teams not too far away so getting games wouldn't be a problem. 

I'd like to see St Helens, Warrington and Widnes help to get more community clubs set up in and around Liverpool too 

There were several emerging grassroots around South Yorks about a decade ago but Sheffield Eagles actually ended up doing more to damage them than to help them - particularly at junior level. 

[Pottsy]

1 hour ago, Damien said:

For example in Sheffield, as you keep mentioning them, if we had 3 development officers ring fenced for 5 years to engrain the game in schools and setup clubs then I'm sure the results would be much better than them coming and going in different areas. After 5 years that could reduce to 1 development officer to maintain and then we move on to somewhere else.

At times the RFL have had way more resources than this. When times are good yes spread the net wider but always make sure that certain core clusters are well targeted.

Sheffield had a number of development staff at one point. It’s how they were utilised that was the issue.

[Eddie]

8 minutes ago, Lowdesert said:

Why 3 Eddie?

1 good one would be enough.

I don’t think one in a city of half a million would be enough personally, though of course it would be better than none. 

[Harry Stottle]

Newcastle is a welcome move from the norm in that they have got something moving in the community game, but I fear that they will proove to be the exception other than the rule going forward.

In towns that have an history and indoctrinated in the game the rigours and physicality of playing this sport is acceptable and people will play it, I can't help but feel with all the adverse publicity that is going around about contact sports and moreso within 'Rugby' that presents another hurdle/obstacle to overcome in getting new areas and people to adopt our game, all this medical evidence that is being fronted that contact sports results in later life problems will not go away and I believe it will greatly reduce the number of participants and will be offputting to those who have never been involved. 

I hope I am wrong, but all sports in the last few years are seeing participation numbers falling especially contact sports, sighting medical complications could arise because of playing them will not help to reverse the situation, I feel it will only escalate it.

 

[Cumbrian Mackem]

12 minutes ago, Pottsy said:

There were several emerging grassroots around South Yorks about a decade ago but Sheffield Eagles actually ended up doing more to damage them than to help them - particularly at junior level. 

How so?

[fighting irish]

41 minutes ago, Damien said:

The game, the RFL. The rest has already been discussed really.

I'm pleased this thread has been created and opened up the discussion.

Does anyone know how many Development officers are currently employed across the country and where?

This is a topic close to my heart.

In any enterprise the ''effort'' can be split into two categories.

One is the maintenance of the existing status quo and the second is growth.

It's a universal truth that the first (maintenance) always takes priority because so many organisations are short of resources (people and funding) and have to prioritise survival. This means there is hardly ever much energy/cash/people left over which could be used to achieve much in the latter category.

What I would like to see is every facet of the game recognising and acknowledging the absolute necessity of making some strides in category 2. The alternative is stagnation and ultimate death.

If we were convinced, across the board, of this necessity then we can turn our minds to how it might be achieved in an environment of scarcity. With little resources it's obvious (isn't it?) that we have to operate as efficiently as possible.

My first thought is that the existing expertise needs to be ''captured''. We should be cataloguing what's going on in the North East/London (and anywhere else where the game is growing) and create a pocket sized development strategy which can be replicated in any ''new'' areas.

Anyone who has read any of my previous posts will have heard me calling for a ''how to'' guide.

With professional development officers employed where ever possible we have a base workforce, but for goodness sake, give them the training/tools to build firm foundations and achieve as much as they can in the shortest possible time.

Once the ''how to'' guide is optimised and available for dissemination, we should be encouraging every amateur league to appoint a (volunteer) development officer and to begin work on a programme (however modest) to promote growth in their local area. Its just not enough, to ''stay the same'' year on year.

I know, that it won't happen without ensuring its always ''on the agenda'' of all our business meetings, at every level of the game. Like any new enterprise, its always most difficult in the early years but if its done right the game will soon develop a momentum of its own and growth will become spontaneous and more widespread.

It can be done, if we acknowledge the necessity, accept the responsibility, replicate ''best practice'' and get on with it. 

[Sir Kevin Sinfield]

3 hours ago, Cumbrian Mackem said:

“We” as in the greater game. I’m sure the guys in the north east as well as goole and Harrogate are doing things without little if any help at all from the RFL.

You say with little help from the RFL, I’d say little direct help is more accurate. Magic weekend has been held in Newcastle since 2015, this will help to raise the profile of the game in the region, as will the World Cup Opening game in England v Samoa and the other World Cup games to be played up there.

[snoopdog]

The City of Carlisle had seven or eight teams and formed a new competition on the back of the formation of the Carlisle Border Raiders and a development officer. Sadly the shocking decision to merge with Barrow was the death of any rugby in the city, many players from the City went onto play for Carlisle, Town , Haven and Barrow 

 

[White Chevron on Blue]

Great post from Fighting Irish. I would like to see "how to" guides for different facets . One thing which the lockdowns have spawned have been the plethora of webinars and zoom meetings. If Mick Hogan were to make a webinar presentation club officials would be energised , could cross reference their individual circumstances . As Irish says "capturing expertise" in a way which is time efficient for both the experts and the seekers of knowledge

. My other passion is canal restoration and the Inland Waterways Association has been exploiting webinars in this way.

[Cumbrian Mackem]

13 minutes ago, snoopdog said:

The City of Carlisle had seven or eight teams and formed a new competition on the back of the formation of the Carlisle Border Raiders and a development officer. Sadly the shocking decision to merge with Barrow was the death of any rugby in the city, many players from the City went onto play for Carlisle, Town , Haven and Barrow 

 

So very RL

[Lowdesert]

1 hour ago, Eddie said:

I don’t think one in a city of half a million would be enough personally, though of course it would be better than none. 

It would be enough.  Pro Clubs have foundation/academy people - these now would replace the previous Regional & District coaches provided by the RFL.  One DO could liaise with all as well as coordinating Schools/Colleges support.

Community Clubs have volunteers - it would be in their interests to support the above.  They could also do the ground work in identifying Schools contacts.

 

[meast]

The game and some of it's fans seems obsessed with expansion or franchising into North America etc without getting any solid foundations in the heartlands or immediate areas around the heartlands.

It inevitably ends in failure and it's usually the fans and clubs within the heartlands that get the blame for that, look at the reaction to Toronto's inevitable demise towards people who didn't get all sticky fingers over them.

In my very humble opinion, we need to be targeting those areas surrounding the heartlands, especially with premier league football even more distanced from the regular fan, once we've got a strong foothold in the UK then we can look to take our product abroad.

Of course, if the game was to take off organically in North America or anywhere else then great, but plonking a club in a random city and expecting it to succeed is way off.

[Pottsy]

1 hour ago, Cumbrian Mackem said:

How so?

By trying to maintain the facade of running an academy and a scholarship, even though they clearly didn’t have the grassroots base to sustain this. They ended up destabilising lots of the nascent junior clubs in the area, without doing anything to support/reinforce them, and filled a lot of young enthusiastic lads with false expectations just to make up the numbers. 
Back when I was in Sheffield, Hillsborough Hawks ran juniors, Sheffield Forgers had juniors (but folded and later reformed), North Derbyshire Chargers (playing out of the area on the border of Sheffield/Chesterfield) had juniors and some of the Doncaster clubs had juniors. However, if you’re regularly taking 4-5 young players from each of those clubs at each age group, without doing anything to help replenish the playing stock, you pull down the entire house of cards.

[Gooleboy]

3 hours ago, Cumbrian Mackem said:

Late 90’s I think.

Dearne Valley Bulldogs are still going. There used to also be Hoyland Vikings.

[Gooleboy]

3 hours ago, Cumbrian Mackem said:

 

St. Helens could target Kirkby, Warrington could target huyton and Widnes could target Speke.

I would look forward to the response from the Clubs if they were tasked with this!

[Pottsy]

7 minutes ago, Gooleboy said:

Dearne Valley Bulldogs are still going. There used to also be Hoyland Vikings.

Hillsborough Hawks

Hoyland Vikings

Dearne Valley Bulldogs

North Derbyshire Chargers/Chesterfield Spires*

Sheffield Forgers

Doncaster Toll Bar

Moorends Marauders

Rotherham Roosters(I think)

Barton Bulldogs

Lincoln City

South Humber Rabbitohs (Grimsby)

Scunthorpe Barbarians 

Derby City

Nottingham Outlaws

Sherwood Wolfhunt

 

I don’t know how many of these clubs are still afloat and I’ve probably forgotten a few but over the past decade or  there have been a lot of clubs in and around the wider South Yorks/North Mids region. 
 

[Pottsy]

4 hours ago, Cumbrian Mackem said:

 

St. Helens could target Kirkby, Warrington could target huyton and Widnes could target Speke.

Who runs those clubs though, week in, week out? Who coaches each age group? Who flips the burgers, washes the kits, collects the subs etc? It’s ok targeting an area and even delivering some schools development but it’s not so easy manufacturing the army of volunteers you need.

[Impartial Observer]

The work in the NE was helped by two great development officers, sadly they lost their jobs in 2013 due to cutbacks but fortunately there are some great volunteers in that area who carried on the work taking it to where it is now. You can have as many development officers as you like but without the volunteers to help run the clubs they will only last a couple of years. 

[Damien]

51 minutes ago, ShropshireBull said:

I think this is where the lack of internationals hits.  If we were targeting a place then taking an international a year to Shef,  then if Newcastle are standing on their own two feet moving magic for a few years to give two set piece events in the city every year would be a boon. 

Newcastle have been showered with events and it has paid off. Now I would just like the RFL and SL to both come together and say X is being targeted next.

I think showered with events is a gross exaggeration. Newcastle have done a fantastic job and deserve all the plaudits. I don't think a magic weekend once a year did all that much in all honesty.