Sir Kevin Sinfield Posted January 23, 2021 Share Posted January 23, 2021 Great news that Super League’s highest profile prop has got his visa through. I can’t wait to see the current New Zealand International rip up Super League. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dunbar Posted January 23, 2021 Share Posted January 23, 2021 Leeds have recruited a good solid prop in Tetevano. Glancing through his stats last year for the Panthers, he only averaged 31 minutes a game but in those minutes he averaged 96 run metres which is very good. He only made two starts for the Panthers and I would expect Leeds see him as a starting prop so it will be interesting to see how these translate to starting role and potentially more minutes. I don't expect anything spectacular from him. In 19 games last year he didn't make any line breaks or offloads and he only broke three tackles in the season. For context, Ryan Sutton was breaking more tackles and making more offloads than Tetevano and the latter was playing for the table topping team with just a single loss in the regular season. Expect workmanlike from Tetevano rather than 'ripping up' Super League. "The history of the world is the history of the triumph of the heartless over the mindless." — Sir Humphrey Appleby. "If someone doesn't value evidence, what evidence are you going to provide to prove that they should value it? If someone doesn't value logic, what logical argument could you provide to show the importance of logic?" — Sam Harris Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dave T Posted January 23, 2021 Share Posted January 23, 2021 I often find NRL props underwhelm the most out of big signings. Will be interesting to see how he goes. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dunbar Posted January 23, 2021 Share Posted January 23, 2021 15 minutes ago, Dave T said: I often find NRL props underwhelm the most out of big signings. Will be interesting to see how he goes. I think there is an assumption from some that a good forward in the NRL will somehow be a superstar in the Super League... that a player who doesn't break tackles or throw magical offloads in one comp will somehow become a different player in another. We have seen with many players over the last decade that good forwards can move between these competitions and play a similar game with success. Whether that is Mike Cooper going to the NRL and back and being a quality forward in both or Ryan Sutton going well in the NRL. Just as some expected Jason Clark to rip up the Super League but that isn't his game, same with Tetevano. If you expect a good solid prop then that is what you will get. If you expect a superstar then you will be disappointed. "The history of the world is the history of the triumph of the heartless over the mindless." — Sir Humphrey Appleby. "If someone doesn't value evidence, what evidence are you going to provide to prove that they should value it? If someone doesn't value logic, what logical argument could you provide to show the importance of logic?" — Sam Harris Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AB90 Posted January 23, 2021 Share Posted January 23, 2021 23 minutes ago, Dunbar said: I think there is an assumption from some that a good forward in the NRL will somehow be a superstar in the Super League... that a player who doesn't break tackles or throw magical offloads in one comp will somehow become a different player in another. We have seen with many players over the last decade that good forwards can move between these competitions and play a similar game with success. Whether that is Mike Cooper going to the NRL and back and being a quality forward in both or Ryan Sutton going well in the NRL. Just as some expected Jason Clark to rip up the Super League but that isn't his game, same with Tetevano. If you expect a good solid prop then that is what you will get. If you expect a superstar then you will be disappointed. Agreed. It also doesn't help that Tetevano is Leeds marquee signing so fans will instantly assume and expect him to be one of the top players in SL. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dave T Posted January 23, 2021 Share Posted January 23, 2021 26 minutes ago, Dunbar said: I think there is an assumption from some that a good forward in the NRL will somehow be a superstar in the Super League... that a player who doesn't break tackles or throw magical offloads in one comp will somehow become a different player in another. We have seen with many players over the last decade that good forwards can move between these competitions and play a similar game with success. Whether that is Mike Cooper going to the NRL and back and being a quality forward in both or Ryan Sutton going well in the NRL. Just as some expected Jason Clark to rip up the Super League but that isn't his game, same with Tetevano. If you expect a good solid prop then that is what you will get. If you expect a superstar then you will be disappointed. I think that's spot on mate. I think where I have a bit of an issue is where relatively solid players come on big reps and just slot in alongside far lesser players. Whilst I think a top quality prop can be priceless I think they are often built up into something they aren't. I think many of the better prop signings have been the lesser names. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AB90 Posted January 23, 2021 Share Posted January 23, 2021 4 minutes ago, Dave T said: I think that's spot on mate. I think where I have a bit of an issue is where relatively solid players come on big reps and just slot in alongside far lesser players. Whilst I think a top quality prop can be priceless I think they are often built up into something they aren't. I think many of the better prop signings have been the lesser names. To be fair, I can't really recall in recent times to many top qaulity, 'big signing' nrl props coming over here. If a SL club is going to spend a decent chunk of the cap a big nrl signings, it's probably going to be a half or fullback (your Austin's, Hastings, Coote, Widopp, Seizer etc). Your point about 'slotting in alongside far lesser players' is probably true because most of these signings are 'lesser' players in comparison to some fans unreasonable expectations of them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gooleboy Posted January 23, 2021 Share Posted January 23, 2021 3 hours ago, Sir Kevin Sinfield said: Great news that Super League’s highest profile prop has got his visa through. I can’t wait to see the current New Zealand International rip up Super League. If he is that good, he wouldn't be over here. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sir Kevin Sinfield Posted January 23, 2021 Share Posted January 23, 2021 1 hour ago, Gooleboy said: If he is that good, he wouldn't be over here. A ridiculous thing to say, you could say the same about any Super League player Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sir Kevin Sinfield Posted January 23, 2021 Share Posted January 23, 2021 3 hours ago, Dave T said: I often find NRL props underwhelm the most out of big signings. Will be interesting to see how he goes. With respect Tetevano is a current New Zealand International. I can’t remember such a high profile NRL prop signing for a Super League club in a very long time. Who are the props that have underwhelmed? 3 hours ago, Dunbar said: I think there is an assumption from some that a good forward in the NRL will somehow be a superstar in the Super League... that a player who doesn't break tackles or throw magical offloads in one comp will somehow become a different player in another. We have seen with many players over the last decade that good forwards can move between these competitions and play a similar game with success. Whether that is Mike Cooper going to the NRL and back and being a quality forward in both or Ryan Sutton going well in the NRL. Just as some expected Jason Clark to rip up the Super League but that isn't his game, same with Tetevano. If you expect a good solid prop then that is what you will get. If you expect a superstar then you will be disappointed. Ryan Sutton struggles to make the Canberra side when they are at full strength. Jason Clark was an average NRL player, he never even played Origin, neither are in the same Lea as a current New Zealand International like Tetevano. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gooleboy Posted January 23, 2021 Share Posted January 23, 2021 22 minutes ago, Sir Kevin Sinfield said: A ridiculous thing to say, you could say the same about any Super League player Any SL player from Down Under. If they could play regular First Grade over there, why come here? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dunbar Posted January 23, 2021 Share Posted January 23, 2021 16 minutes ago, Sir Kevin Sinfield said: With respect Tetevano is a current New Zealand International. I can’t remember such a high profile NRL prop signing for a Super League club in a very long time. Who are the props that have underwhelmed? Ryan Sutton struggles to make the Canberra side when they are at full strength. Jason Clark was an average NRL player, he never even played Origin, neither are in the same Lea as a current New Zealand International like Tetevano. I am pleased that Leeds have brought in a quality middle forward... all the better to make Super League a better competition. He is not better than Sutton as the evidence shows. But I am happy you are excited to see him play but, as I say, expect a good workmanlike prop and not someone who will rip up Super League. "The history of the world is the history of the triumph of the heartless over the mindless." — Sir Humphrey Appleby. "If someone doesn't value evidence, what evidence are you going to provide to prove that they should value it? If someone doesn't value logic, what logical argument could you provide to show the importance of logic?" — Sam Harris Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AB90 Posted January 23, 2021 Share Posted January 23, 2021 3 minutes ago, Gooleboy said: Any SL player from Down Under. If they could play regular First Grade over there, why come here? Pretty obvious isn't it - they come here because they get offered more money. Doesn't mean they can't play regular nrl first grade. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sir Kevin Sinfield Posted January 23, 2021 Share Posted January 23, 2021 7 minutes ago, Dunbar said: I am pleased that Leeds have brought in a quality middle forward... all the better to make Super League a better competition. He is not better than Sutton as the evidence shows. But I am happy you are excited to see him play but, as I say, expect a good workmanlike prop and not someone who will rip up Super League. Ryan Sutton hasn’t even played for England and has 30 odd mostly substitute NRL appearances. Zane Tetevano is a current New Zealand International, he played against and beat Great Britain twice recently, Sutton wasn’t even able to make the squad. On what basis do you say Ryan Sutton is a better player? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sir Kevin Sinfield Posted January 23, 2021 Share Posted January 23, 2021 17 minutes ago, Gooleboy said: Any SL player from Down Under. If they could play regular First Grade over there, why come here? There are many reasons. A Super League club may offer more money. Going to live and work abroad for a few years is appealing to a lot of people. It can extend players careers who are coming towards the end of their playing days as Super League is a lower standard and less physical. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AB90 Posted January 23, 2021 Share Posted January 23, 2021 5 minutes ago, Sir Kevin Sinfield said: There are many reasons. A Super League club may offer more money. Going to live and work abroad for a few years is appealing to a lot of people. It can extend players careers who are coming towards the end of their playing days as Super League is a lower standard and less physical. 'Super League club may offer more money' is an understatement in my opinion. I would be confident in saying that 95% of all NRL imports in SL are here because they are being paid more than what they can earn in the NRL. It's a job after all. Money talks. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Davo5 Posted January 23, 2021 Share Posted January 23, 2021 4 hours ago, Dunbar said: I think there is an assumption from some that a good forward in the NRL will somehow be a superstar in the Super League... that a player who doesn't break tackles or throw magical offloads in one comp will somehow become a different player in another. We have seen with many players over the last decade that good forwards can move between these competitions and play a similar game with success. Whether that is Mike Cooper going to the NRL and back and being a quality forward in both or Ryan Sutton going well in the NRL. Just as some expected Jason Clark to rip up the Super League but that isn't his game, same with Tetevano. If you expect a good solid prop then that is what you will get. If you expect a superstar then you will be disappointed. People expected Jason Clark to rip up Superleague. Really Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dunbar Posted January 23, 2021 Share Posted January 23, 2021 7 minutes ago, Sir Kevin Sinfield said: Ryan Sutton hasn’t even played for England and has 30 odd mostly substitute NRL appearances. Zane Tetevano is a current New Zealand International, he played against and beat Great Britain twice recently, Sutton wasn’t even able to make the squad. On what basis do you say Ryan Sutton is a better player? I think you have misinterpreted why I brought the likes of Sutton and Jason Clark into the conversation (Sutton has made 5 starts in the NRL this year and Tetevano 2 by the way). I wasn't comparing the quality of the three to each other, I was comparing how the likes of Sutton and Clark played in the NRL and then in Super League. Same with Mike Cooper. My point is that when you buy an NRL forward they will probably perform as well in Super League as they did in the NRL... Sutton, Clark and others are proof of this. Tetevano is a good workmanlike prop in the NRL... not making any linebreaks in the year and breaking three tackles in the season but also making lots of valuable yards. There is no need to be so defensive, I don't want him to fail and I am not trying to say he isn't a good prop and a good signing. Just don't expect him to be more than he is. "The history of the world is the history of the triumph of the heartless over the mindless." — Sir Humphrey Appleby. "If someone doesn't value evidence, what evidence are you going to provide to prove that they should value it? If someone doesn't value logic, what logical argument could you provide to show the importance of logic?" — Sam Harris Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sir Kevin Sinfield Posted January 23, 2021 Share Posted January 23, 2021 7 minutes ago, Dunbar said: I think you have misinterpreted why I brought the likes of Sutton and Jason Clark into the conversation (Sutton has made 5 starts in the NRL this year and Tetevano 2 by the way). I wasn't comparing the quality of the three to each other, I was comparing how the likes of Sutton and Clark played in the NRL and then in Super League. Same with Mike Cooper. My point is that when you buy an NRL forward they will probably perform as well in Super League as they did in the NRL... Sutton, Clark and others are proof of this. Tetevano is a good workmanlike prop in the NRL... not making any linebreaks in the year and breaking three tackles in the season but also making lots of valuable yards. There is no need to be so defensive, I don't want him to fail and I am not trying to say he isn't a good prop and a good signing. Just don't expect him to be more than he is. Zane Tetevano and Alex Walmsley will be the two best prop forwards in Super League. Making metres and tackles is their number 1 job, that’s what they’re paid to do. When they meet Alex Walmsley will have to up his game after coming away 2nd best when they last met in the two New Zealand-Great Britain Internationals. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AB90 Posted January 23, 2021 Share Posted January 23, 2021 7 minutes ago, Dunbar said: I think you have misinterpreted why I brought the likes of Sutton and Jason Clark into the conversation (Sutton has made 5 starts in the NRL this year and Tetevano 2 by the way). I wasn't comparing the quality of the three to each other, I was comparing how the likes of Sutton and Clark played in the NRL and then in Super League. Same with Mike Cooper. My point is that when you buy an NRL forward they will probably perform as well in Super League as they did in the NRL... Sutton, Clark and others are proof of this. Tetevano is a good workmanlike prop in the NRL... not making any linebreaks in the year and breaking three tackles in the season but also making lots of valuable yards. There is no need to be so defensive, I don't want him to fail and I am not trying to say he isn't a good prop and a good signing. Just don't expect him to be more than he is. Agree overall but slightly disagree with your point about 'when you buy an NRL foward they will probably perform as well in SL as they did in the NRL'. Yes, Jason Clark does a similar job for Warrington than he did at Souths, but there are numerous former NRL fowards who were pretty average that have excelled in SL. Guys like David Fafita, Luke Yates, Kalepi Tanginao (made the 2020 SL dream team), Teveta Satea, Ligi Sau, Rhys Martin, Grant Millington etc were essentially all squad players/reserve graders in the NRL but in SL they are all very good, top level players. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Davo5 Posted January 23, 2021 Share Posted January 23, 2021 6 minutes ago, Sir Kevin Sinfield said: Zane Tetevano and Alex Walmsley will be the two best prop forwards in Super League. Making metres and tackles is their number 1 job, that’s what they’re paid to do. When they meet Alex Walmsley will have to up his game after coming away 2nd best when they last met in the two New Zealand-Great Britain Internationals. You’ve signed a 30 yr old on silly money who has only ever been a solid bench player during his near 10 yr career.I’d wait and see how he goes as a starting prop in Superleague before hailing him a world beater. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dave T Posted January 23, 2021 Share Posted January 23, 2021 8 minutes ago, AB90 said: Agree overall but slightly disagree with your point about 'when you buy an NRL foward they will probably perform as well in SL as they did in the NRL'. Yes, Jason Clark does a similar job for Warrington than he did at Souths, but there are numerous former NRL fowards who were pretty average that have excelled in SL. Guys like David Fafita, Luke Yates, Kalepi Tanginao (made the 2020 SL dream team), Teveta Satea, Ligi Sau, Rhys Martin, Grant Millington etc were essentially all squad players/reserve graders in the NRL but in SL they are all very good, top level players. I think it is fair to say that different players thrive in different environments. Plenty big names have been average at best, plenty average names have done very well for themselves. At Warrington my favourite overseas players over the years are not the Allan Langers, Tawera Nikau's, Matt King's etc. they are the Nat Wood's and Brent Grose's. Some work out, some don't, I'm not sure I would go for marquee money on an NRL prop tbh, but the value comes down to whether you can get another quality prop from anywhere else and the market is tighter at the moment. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AB90 Posted January 23, 2021 Share Posted January 23, 2021 8 minutes ago, Dave T said: I think it is fair to say that different players thrive in different environments. Plenty big names have been average at best, plenty average names have done very well for themselves. At Warrington my favourite overseas players over the years are not the Allan Langers, Tawera Nikau's, Matt King's etc. they are the Nat Wood's and Brent Grose's. Some work out, some don't, I'm not sure I would go for marquee money on an NRL prop tbh, but the value comes down to whether you can get another quality prop from anywhere else and the market is tighter at the moment. Over the past 10 (my time watching SL) in my opinion there really hasn't been that many 'big name' signings that have been 'average at best'. You say there are plenty of them but I can't really recall that many. Widdop comes to mind I guess. Now some of those big name signings may of not lived up to fans unrealistic expectations. But saying plenty of big name signings have been average at best is a bit of an exaggeration imo. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dunbar Posted January 23, 2021 Share Posted January 23, 2021 41 minutes ago, Sir Kevin Sinfield said: Zane Tetevano and Alex Walmsley will be the two best prop forwards in Super League. Making metres and tackles is their number 1 job, that’s what they’re paid to do. When they meet Alex Walmsley will have to up his game after coming away 2nd best when they last met in the two New Zealand-Great Britain Internationals. If making metres and tackling are the jobs of a prop could I ask you to explain something please. In the two tests Great Britain played against New Zealand in 2019 Alex Walmsley made 230 metres (67 post contact) and 40 tackles while Tetivano made 97 run metres (31 post contact) and 38 tackles. My question is. If Walmsley made almost two and half times more metres in the games than Tetivano, why was he 2nd best? "The history of the world is the history of the triumph of the heartless over the mindless." — Sir Humphrey Appleby. "If someone doesn't value evidence, what evidence are you going to provide to prove that they should value it? If someone doesn't value logic, what logical argument could you provide to show the importance of logic?" — Sam Harris Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gooleboy Posted January 23, 2021 Share Posted January 23, 2021 9 minutes ago, Dunbar said: If making metres and tackling are the jobs of a prop could I ask you to explain something please. In the two tests Great Britain played against New Zealand in 2019 Alex Walmsley made 230 metres (67 post contact) and 40 tackles while Tetivano made 97 run metres (31 post contact) and 38 tackles. My question is. If Walmsley made almost two and half times more metres in the games than Tetivano, why was he 2nd best? Well after reading all this on here, I am looking forward to seeing Tetivano as it sounds like he is a world beating player. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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