langpark Posted December 20, 2020 Author Share Posted December 20, 2020 32 minutes ago, DavidM said: ... ill take Cecchin or Atkins or Sutton over Perenara or a French ref from their league any day . You want guys comfortable in the environment of a top international , just get the best refs in the best games . Interestingly more people in cricket are discussing scrapping neutral umpires with guys just picked from the elite panel I just cannot get my head around the fact that the NRL seem to consider Perenara good enough to referee just about any NRL match, but the suddenly Australia vs England is off-limits? How does that work? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Damien Posted December 20, 2020 Share Posted December 20, 2020 4 minutes ago, langpark said: I just cannot get my head around the fact that the NRL seem to consider Perenara good enough to referee just about any NRL match, but the suddenly Australia vs England is off-limits? How does that work? Indeed, it makes no sense at all. Australia didn't seem to like the way that Perenara reffed them in a couple of internationals and he seems to be off limits since. No nation should be able to pick and choose referees. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DavidM Posted December 20, 2020 Share Posted December 20, 2020 15 minutes ago, Damien said: Indeed, it makes no sense at all. Australia didn't seem to like the way that Perenara reffed them in a couple of internationals and he seems to be off limits since. No nation should be able to pick and choose referees. But in a way this is counterintuitive and indicates the situation as it is . Basically under neutral refs when england play australia the options are .... Henry Perenara . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Damien Posted December 20, 2020 Share Posted December 20, 2020 7 minutes ago, DavidM said: But in a way this is counterintuitive and indicates the situation as it is . Basically under neutral refs when england play australia the options are .... Henry Perenara . So what? We only play them once every blue moon anyhow. I thought he was perfectly fine the times he reffed England v Australia, that is before Australia had their strop. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dunbar Posted December 20, 2020 Share Posted December 20, 2020 When it comes to international referees, perception is the key. I know that the best referee available will be the best choice and that referee's will officiate with impartiality. But when I see an international game refereed by an individual from the same country as one of the participants it is just embarrassing. It makes us look so small time "The history of the world is the history of the triumph of the heartless over the mindless." — Sir Humphrey Appleby. "If someone doesn't value evidence, what evidence are you going to provide to prove that they should value it? If someone doesn't value logic, what logical argument could you provide to show the importance of logic?" — Sam Harris Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Damien Posted December 20, 2020 Share Posted December 20, 2020 10 minutes ago, Dunbar said: When it comes to international referees, perception is the key. I know that the best referee available will be the best choice and that referee's will officiate with impartiality. But when I see an international game refereed by an individual from the same country as one of the participants it is just embarrassing. It makes us look so small time Indeed. Not having neutral refs is just so alien to most people and needlessly just opens up the sport to criticism. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Harry Stottle Posted December 20, 2020 Share Posted December 20, 2020 17 hours ago, Oxford said: The first rule needs to be be No teams shall contact referees for any reason during the tournament. Ah yes, didn't Bob Fulton tell the referees how to interpret the rules usually in a two hour meeting before the games. Secondly, I would prefer refs from anywhere other than English refs controlling games that GB/England are performing in, they seem pre-occupied with showing there is no bias from them towards their "Home" nation and any 50/50's are seemingly 60/40's in favour of the opposition. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
langpark Posted December 20, 2020 Author Share Posted December 20, 2020 1 minute ago, Harry Stottle said: Ah yes, didn't Bob Fulton tell the referees how to interpret the rules usually in a two hour meeting before the games. Secondly, I would prefer refs from anywhere other than English refs controlling games that GB/England are performing in, they seem pre-occupied with showing there is no bias from them towards their "Home" nation and any 50/50's are seemingly 60/40's in favour of the opposition. That it the case with many refs. And like i say, it's unfair on them, more than anyone else, to put them in that position in the first place. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Damien Posted December 20, 2020 Share Posted December 20, 2020 3 minutes ago, Harry Stottle said: Ah yes, didn't Bob Fulton tell the referees how to interpret the rules usually in a two hour meeting before the games. Secondly, I would prefer refs from anywhere other than English refs controlling games that GB/England are performing in, they seem pre-occupied with showing there is no bias from them towards their "Home" nation and any 50/50's are seemingly 60/40's in favour of the opposition. I agree. Even when we have NRL refs they religiously follow NRL interpretations that do England no favours. I can accept in games against Australia if its a NZ ref, its hard to take when its an Aussie one. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
unapologetic pedant Posted December 20, 2020 Share Posted December 20, 2020 3 hours ago, DavidM said: But in a way this is counterintuitive and indicates the situation as it is . Basically under neutral refs when england play australia the options are .... Henry Perenara . Only on the assumption the ref has to be currently in the NRL. The top refs in the Auckland premiership are perfectly capable of taking charge of internationals, and some might be in the NRL if they were not resident in NZ. It could be assumed their style would be different. I wish that were the case. They referee too much under the neurotic influence of the NRL. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Oxford Posted December 20, 2020 Share Posted December 20, 2020 58 minutes ago, Harry Stottle said: Ah yes, didn't Bob Fulton tell the referees how to interpret the rules usually in a two hour meeting before the games. It wasn't only Fulton who has asked for a meeting it's a regular occurence. 2 warning points Non-Political Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
theswanmcr Posted December 20, 2020 Share Posted December 20, 2020 In the huge list of things that makes us look small-time, insular and a joke of sport the use of non-neutral refs is at the very top. It is staggering that this is even still considered to happen never mind that it still does on a regular basis. This is a good step and is to be welcomed but it really needs to be written into the laws of the game that any international match must have a neural ref. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Big Picture Posted December 20, 2020 Share Posted December 20, 2020 19 hours ago, langpark said: The usual excuse(s) offered up, usually by the Aussies is: "It's the biggest game, we want the best ref... Don't worry, he's a professional! He won't be bias!" I don't for a second believe a ref will be deliberately bias, but it puts them in an unfair position and plays on their subconscious when making decisions. Then there is little things, for example, a thick Aussie or Yorkshire accent from a ref, gives a slight advantage to one... Might be splitting hairs now, but as you say, there is no excuse. We are lucky to have Perenara as an option and should be using him every time. I hope another NZ ref can step up after he retires. Would be great to see another Frenchman in SL (like Thierry Alibert did). Also, would be great if PNG and Wales could produce a top ref. I seem to remember some decent PNG referee(s) in the 80s or 90s. I think one may have even refereed some Aus vs NZ matches. I could have sworn that one of the International matches I found online and downloaded to my collection had a Papuan ref, but I'll be damned if I can find it now. 16 hours ago, 17 stone giant said: I agree with both of the last two comments. It's never bothered me at all where a referee was from, but I can see why RL would perhaps want to have neutral referees for internationals. It seems to be the done thing in other major sports, and it reduces the possibility of a ref being accused of favouritism. Unless I'm mistaken it's routine in all major sports. In the NCAA they even ensure that the refs for inter-conference matches are always from a third conference, you can see that in any of their postseason Bowl games. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bedfordshire Bronco Posted December 20, 2020 Share Posted December 20, 2020 7 hours ago, JohnM said: There's something stopping that for the moment. I can't think what it it is, though. Hasn't stopped the kick and clap realising they need to keep internationals going has it? If we can play Wigan vs Catalan then we can play England vs France or England vs Wales or England vs Exiles Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bedfordshire Bronco Posted December 20, 2020 Share Posted December 20, 2020 7 hours ago, Hela Wigmen said: Ignorance. Really? Hasn't stopped internationals in RU, soccer or cricket has it? Exiles would all be SL based pros.... Why couldnt we arrange a game? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hela Wigmen Posted December 20, 2020 Share Posted December 20, 2020 1 hour ago, Bedfordshire Bronco said: Really? Hasn't stopped internationals in RU, soccer or cricket has it? Exiles would all be SL based pros.... Why couldnt we arrange a game? Yes, ignorance. England Rugby League rarely play games. Their ignorance and sheer arrogance is atrocious. Exiles isn’t an International game, either. It’s a shoddy exhibition game. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bedfordshire Bronco Posted December 20, 2020 Share Posted December 20, 2020 1 hour ago, Hela Wigmen said: Yes, ignorance. England Rugby League rarely play games. Their ignorance and sheer arrogance is atrocious. Exiles isn’t an International game, either. It’s a shoddy exhibition game. AH I see, Thought it was a pop at me Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JohnM Posted December 20, 2020 Share Posted December 20, 2020 6 hours ago, Bedfordshire Bronco said: Hasn't stopped the kick and clap realising they need to keep internationals going has it? If we can play Wigan vs Catalan then we can play England vs France or England vs Wales or England vs Exiles All that is true, I agree. However, given the deteriorating national and international situation, would it not be wise to express only a measure of intent and outline rather than incurring irrecoverable cost in setting up a programme that could be aborted at very short notice. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Harry Stottle Posted December 21, 2020 Share Posted December 21, 2020 9 hours ago, JohnM said: All that is true, I agree. However, given the deteriorating national and international situation, would it not be wise to express only a measure of intent and outline rather than incurring irrecoverable cost in setting up a programme that could be aborted at very short notice. An international programme was set up up '18 to go through to the '25 WC John, obviously covid has had an effect but I haven't seen any retraction going forward after '21, and I hope not GB are still pencilled in to tour Aus in '23 looking forward to going on that one. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JohnM Posted December 21, 2020 Share Posted December 21, 2020 All I can see from rural Lincolnshire about England and GB is related to the World Cup and England. Can you point me to the stuff about tours after that date? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Big Picture Posted January 7, 2021 Share Posted January 7, 2021 On 20/12/2020 at 11:31, Big Picture said: I could have sworn that one of the International matches I found online and downloaded to my collection had a Papuan ref, but I'll be damned if I can find it now. Unless I'm mistaken it's routine in all major sports. In the NCAA they even ensure that the refs for inter-conference matches are always from a third conference, you can see that in any of their postseason Bowl games. I found it, and believe it or not it was a World Cup Final too! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Oxford Posted January 7, 2021 Share Posted January 7, 2021 Pick Perenara for all the Kangaroos games then see if they turn up or not! 2 warning points Non-Political Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
barnyia Posted January 7, 2021 Share Posted January 7, 2021 This fella, grandstand with ray french! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
langpark Posted February 26, 2021 Author Share Posted February 26, 2021 I found this article interesting and relevant to this discussion. English referee Billy Thompson refereed the first-ever State of Origin match because both sides insisted on having a neutral ref! (yes, I am ashamed for not already knowing that). Over the years it seems to be one issue we've never been consistent with. https://www.qrl.com.au/news/2021/02/18/final-whistle-for-english-referee-who-helped-ensure-origins-success/ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Damien Posted February 26, 2021 Share Posted February 26, 2021 8 minutes ago, langpark said: I found this article interesting and relevant to this discussion. English referee Billy Thompson refereed the first-ever State of Origin match because both sides insisted on having a neutral ref! (yes, I am ashamed for not already knowing that). Over the years it seems to be one issue we've never been consistent with. https://www.qrl.com.au/news/2021/02/18/final-whistle-for-english-referee-who-helped-ensure-origins-success/ I never knew that either. Now we can't even get neutral refs for internationals! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Archived
This topic is now archived and is closed to further replies.