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Sky Sports halves offer for TV rights


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2 minutes ago, Johnoco said:

I can’t think of one, possibly places like Sharlston. But even in places like that you find some football fans. I have always seen lots of LUFC shirts at Belle Vue for instance.

In a previous life I worked on that kind of thing. The only place that came close was Hull, but even then it was less that football wasn't popular it was more Hull City weren't that popular. Still plenty of PL club fans and a lot of LUFC fans there.

I also think the argument MJM made misses the actual demographic of Sky Sports subscriber. Its not RL fan or football fan. Its 'sports fans. Sky split the channels and allowed people to have a more a la carte choice. And the vast vast majority of them took all of the channels. 

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1 minute ago, M j M said:

I think that is a fundamental misunderstanding of RL's support base. I can see why it would seem that way to someone in a city where soccer is moderately big but it's really not the case for many Rugby League fans outside it. For many Rugby League is first and foremost for them when deciding whether to have a Sky Sports subscription or not.

I think that was true and is true still of a number of people, my Dad included up to a point for example, but that number has declined - especially where the "local" football team is regularly televised. 

Anecdotally, you only have to go into the pubs in Wakey, Castleford etc to see that football is the default with RL being an increasingly "ask the barman to put it on" job. Equally anecdotally, I know quite a few hardcore Cas fans from my time playing junior rugby there, I can comfortably say each and every one is an avid Leeds United fan too. I'm sure you'll find similar for the Manchester clubs in Salford and Leigh's support for example. Its always a funny thing to hear them booing Marching on Together on a Friday night at Headingley and then singing All Leeds Aren't We at Elland Road on a Saturday for example.

Those pub anecdotes are for places that are in theory RL to the core and never had a football team etc., nevermind Leeds, Bradford or Manchester. Hull may be the last bastion holding out but because of my mate's preference I tend to go to the pubs without TVs there or to Beverley so perhaps even that has changed. 

It's one of the things that always makes me laugh when people are debating which of the Wakefield teams is the biggest when its obvious the best supported sports team in the Wakefield MDC is Leeds United. 

So I agree there is a hardcore of RL-only fans who'd scrap Sky etc, but in TV audience and sheer number terms there is far greater floating mass of viewers who regularly watch Super League but don't have Sky Sports purely for that reason.

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4 minutes ago, Scotchy1 said:

In a previous life I worked on that kind of thing. The only place that came close was Hull, but even then it was less that football wasn't popular it was more Hull City weren't that popular. Still plenty of PL club fans and a lot of LUFC fans there.

I also think the argument MJM made misses the actual demographic of Sky Sports subscriber. Its not RL fan or football fan. Its 'sports fans. Sky split the channels and allowed people to have a more a la carte choice. And the vast vast majority of them took all of the channels. 

What Super League offers a combination of incremental subscribers and extra content for subscibers who would remain even if it wasn't there.

What I think too many people on this thread are doing, for their own agendas, is to downplay the former when it is very substantial indeed and is Super League's absolute baseline worth to Sky. Rugby League isn't huge, but it has got a strong and loyal audience many of whom don't watch - or at least certainly wouldn't pay for - their subscription without SL being on the channel.

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We need to be clear on what we expect. 

When we say we don't k ow what SL is trying to do, or what the strategy is etc. we'll tbh, it's the same as the like of the RU prem. You don't see them chasing fake billionaires in Canada because they are so insecure about their clubs in Sale, Newcastle etc. 

They have never admitted an expansion club yet, yet crack on and work to drive value, but if we dare focus on our existing game it is a sign we are backward. 

People need to calm down and clear their heads. 

If Sky halve their offer, you are close to the point of telling them you will go your own way. But we should remember that other media sources told us it was 50% higher than this a few weeks back. Somebody is wrong. 

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7 minutes ago, Scotchy1 said:

In a previous life I worked on that kind of thing. The only place that came close was Hull, but even then it was less that football wasn't popular it was more Hull City weren't that popular. Still plenty of PL club fans and a lot of LUFC fans there.

I also think the argument MJM made misses the actual demographic of Sky Sports subscriber. Its not RL fan or football fan. Its 'sports fans. Sky split the channels and allowed people to have a more a la carte choice. And the vast vast majority of them took all of the channels. 

I'd say about a third of my rugby (union) club down here watch and enjoy SL and NRL. 

It isn't just the heartlands or specifically / exclusively RL fans who follow the game on SKY. 

I don't think many would specifically get SKY just fir RL but they still watch it..... SKY need to remember that 

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3 hours ago, Rugbyleaguesupporter said:

No other way to describe this than disappointing. 

I cant see an alternative than 10 team league if its £20m. 

We have to hope Elstone can show Sky how an extra £10m or so could really enhance the league. 

Two things we need to accept I think though: 

1. TV deal just gone was golden- all the criticism of it was way over the top. Sky paid a large premium which would have been lost if it went to tender 

2. We cannot waste money like last few years. Yes top of championship is much better but ultimately game not much more sustainable. 

I think you are probably right.

 I would not be surprised if Super League is a 10 team or even an 8 team”Elite”Division.

God knows what will happen to clubs outside the Super League.

 

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Just now, ShropshireBull said:

One governing body now.  Splitting the admin growth and social media strategy across several platforms is a joke.  The most viewed video on Rugby League youtube is Sims mic'd up at Warrington years ago.  For SL the 3rd 4th and 5th is International games.  I could do a better job pronoting this game on 21k a year than what we are doing now.  

No, it's Ben Flower assaulting a prone player. 

We have plenty other higher ones. 

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10 minutes ago, Johnoco said:

This is pretty much the nub of it. It’s not so much that you can fail in life but it usually helps to have a goal. I don’t see any sort of ambition from RL other than to somehow stumble on. Even the targets of Blake Solly a few years back seem like a dynamic go getter in comparison to the vague nothingness we have now.

Exactly mate. Its one of the big failings of "Team 12" and Toronto. From a PR perspective Super League totally failed to direct the narrative and Elstone shrunk away from as much public communication as possible. They lost the impetus to justify themselves to the wider world with a purpose vision. Instead the rest of the world, uneducated in the intricacies of the Toronto debate and without a clear message from Super League, saw a competition replace Toronto with Leigh (no slight on Leigh its not their fault). That is undoubtedly going to have an impact on how the competition is viewed in layman's terms.

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1 minute ago, Dave T said:

We need to be clear on what we expect. 

When we say we don't k ow what SL is trying to do, or what the strategy is etc. we'll tbh, it's the same as the like of the RU prem. You don't see them chasing fake billionaires in Canada because they are so insecure about their clubs in Sale, Newcastle etc. 

They have never admitted an expansion club yet, yet crack on and work to drive value, but if we dare focus on our existing game it is a sign we are backward. 

People need to calm down and clear their heads. 

If Sky halve their offer, you are close to the point of telling them you will go your own way. But we should remember that other media sources told us it was 50% higher than this a few weeks back. Somebody is wrong. 

That's  huge risk. I very much doubt (m)any clubs would survive that.

3 minutes ago, ShropshireBull said:

One governing body now.  Splitting the admin growth and social media strategy across several platforms is a joke.  The most viewed video on Rugby League youtube is Sims mic'd up at Warrington years ago.  For SL the 3rd 4th and 5th is International games.  I could do a better job promoting this game on 21k a year than what we are doing now.  

Of course you could. I'm surprised you haven't been snapped up by the Bulls long before now.

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2 minutes ago, M j M said:

What Super League offers a combination of incremental subscribers and extra content for subscibers who would remain even if it wasn't there.

What I think too many people on this thread are doing, for their own agendas, is to downplay the former when it is very substantial indeed and is Super League's absolute baseline worth to Sky. Rugby League isn't huge, but it has got a strong and loyal audience many of whom don't watch - or at least certainly wouldn't pay for - their subscription without SL being on the channel.

That's slightly different. But pretty much every sky sports subscriber gets all the sports channels and what sky sell is a package rather than one sport. 

For some SL is a big part of that package no doubt about it. But their decision is still based on the package of sports sky sell.

RL does have a loyal fan base but the number for whom it is the defining factor is really small.

Understanding that is key to SL building its value because if it is to increase its value to Sky, it needs to appeal to the wider sports fan. It needs to be a bigger part of that package for a bigger proportion of that audience. 

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11 minutes ago, Dave T said:

We need to be clear on what we expect. 

When we say we don't k ow what SL is trying to do, or what the strategy is etc. we'll tbh, it's the same as the like of the RU prem. You don't see them chasing fake billionaires in Canada because they are so insecure about their clubs in Sale, Newcastle etc. 

They have never admitted an expansion club yet, yet crack on and work to drive value, but if we dare focus on our existing game it is a sign we are backward. 

People need to calm down and clear their heads. 

If Sky halve their offer, you are close to the point of telling them you will go your own way. But we should remember that other media sources told us it was 50% higher than this a few weeks back. Somebody is wrong. 

Because the RU Premiership has enough billionaires as it is. The Super whatever and Pro 14 have chased expansion though because they need to.

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1 minute ago, ShropshireBull said:

Anyone on a fraction of the money could do better than what we have currently.  If you get all that money to be offered 50% less the next thing we should be reading is a resignation .

Go on then, put yourself forward to The RFL and/or SL on a % contract. You'll surely make a fortune.

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13 minutes ago, yipyee said:

St Helen's

Warrington

Leigh

Widnes

Dont know about the other side of the hill

Can’t speak for the others but I’ve been in Warrington plenty of times (lived in Liverpool and Manchester) and the sports shops are chock full of football jerseys. 

Not having a local team (or at least a decent one) doesn’t equate to lack of interest. In Ireland the local Irish club sides are pretty terrible (with paltry crowds to boot), but it’s by far the most popular and highest profile sport on the island. You cannot walk into any town and not see a jersey of a top club being worn.

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1 minute ago, ShropshireBull said:

Missing the point.  Plenty of people have made significant sums over several years to deliver nothing.  I have just started reading The Forbidden Game and it is embarrassing how much money has been taken to deliver nothing.  We dont even have one core youtube channel with a regular schedule of content.  That is basic for anyone under 40 years old. 

No I'm not. You said you could do better on £21k. Put yourself up and prove it! The fact that many have failed with considerably more expertise than you possess should really tell you something about the real popularity of the game.

For (I don't know how many times now) I'll say this: just because you (and I) think RL is TGG does not make it so.

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Sell the game to the NRL or at least part of it. Don't see to private equity. They aren't a charity and they will want their pound of flesh and it won't be pretty. 

DIEHARD / TITAN / MAROON / KANGAROO

 

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1 hour ago, Bedfordshire Bronco said:

I'd say about a third of my rugby (union) club down here watch and enjoy SL and NRL. 

It isn't just the heartlands or specifically / exclusively RL fans who follow the game on SKY. 

I don't think many would specifically get SKY just fir RL but they still watch it..... SKY need to remember that 

How many viewers does a third of the members (I presume that's what you meant) of your RU club represent?  If that holds with other RU clubs in England, how many viewers in total might that represent?

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How much have we missed out on by not having Toronto and Toulouse in? Can anyone speculate on that figure? It would make for a good topic and discussion. I suspect zero difference but we'll never know. $20m is more than we deserve, it's a joke of a sport in all aspects apart from what is delivered on the pitch, which is the really sad thing.

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