Sky Sports halves offer for TV rights

[Harry Stottle]

19 minutes ago, Tommygilf said:

It didn't work...

There's a difference between exploring options and playing hard ball when you're in a weak position. Scottish football was offerred something like £35 million, thought they could get better telling Sky to stuff it, couldn't get better and had to accept Sky's second offer of £25 million.

As I intimated to previously any good company knows what it's opposition is doing, Sky will know where they are comfortable at placing their contract offer.

[Kayakman]

42 minutes ago, Harry Stottle said:

As I intimated to previously any good company knows what it's opposition is doing, Sky will know where they are comfortable at placing their contract offer.

"A dollar to a doughnut" (as they say over here Harry) that the offer would have been higher if Toronto was in...provably by quite a bit...more than enough to have helped Toronto out and put a few pounds in all clubs pockets also!   Now look what you have went and done!

[redjonn]

Unfortunately Covid has put somewhat of a spanner in the works. In that clubs need money desperately... more desperately than ever

That gives Sky or any other broadcaster a good starting point irrespective of anything else.

At some point SL needs to wean off Sky having exclusive rights. This in order to aim to have packages on FTA media as well as sell to other new entrants like Amazon.   The problem is that Covid has effectively prevented any such forward thinking - broadcasters will smell the whiff of desperation.

I think some commentators on this thread have to take account that the market opportunity to sell SL has been affected and the unfortunate timing of the selling of rights. The commentary seems to ignore the reality - and nope no matter what those who always want to bring Toronto (as they just can't let go) as the white horse saviour they would not have made one iota of difference.

[Scotchy1]

8 hours ago, Hull Kingston Bronco said:

I think my points were pretty specific mate, no idea why you think there’s none in that post 

1. P&R isn’t inherently contradictory with also selecting growth markets you approach differently 

2. New teams from those growth markets should have a protected period to establish themselves, as Catalans were

3. We should provide more funding to those new teams than the existing teams, to give them a greater chance of being successful 

 

Call it a 3 point plan if you like. What part of that is me saying nothing?

 

 

 

 

 

Promotion and relegation allows you to hide failure.

If Elstone controls the expansion of the game then he is responsible for it. Because he has options and control if London fail or not enough comes from France or Newcastle don't succeed or we don't get expansion in to Wales, that's elstones fault. 

Under P+R thats not his fault, that failure is everyone's fault and he can't be held responsible.

Its like brexit. Long ago the argument stopped that it would be good or beneficial. Its just something that has to happen. This way the inevitable failure isn't the tories fault, they couldn't do anything about it. Brexit had to happen and therefore the negative consequences were inevitable and outside of their control.

[Scotchy1]

1 hour ago, Tommygilf said:

It didn't work...

There's a difference between exploring options and playing hard ball when you're in a weak position. Scottish football was offerred something like £35 million, thought they could get better telling Sky to stuff it, couldn't get better and had to accept Sky's second offer of £25 million.

This is why the NRL rumour was so interesting.

Watch NRL would provide an internally owned and provided alternative putting us in a much better negotiation position 

[Oxford]

2 hours ago, Harry Stottle said:

Well then Oxy, please inform me what improved the Championship if it was not the will to speculate on improved performers and many clubs signing player's on Full Time contracts in the quest to cross the drawbridge that had been lowered to SL.

It was aided by a few things not just ambition and a quick look at the whole rather than the bits would help harry.

Those clubs not in SL have become more professional but this started even before it was all on again. You don't give them enough credit while championing the Championship!

[ATLANTISMAN]

My feeling is that the championship should showcase itself on SKY even by covering the production costs of maybe 20 matches a season.

Outside broadcast costs now have never been so low and a decent broadcast can be done for as little as £5K you dont even need an outside broadcast unit.

This can more than be made up in sponsorship and will enable the championship to show how good and competitive it actually is on SKY which is still without doubt the best platform.

 

P 

[Scubby]

1 minute ago, ATLANTISMAN said:

My feeling is that the championship should showcase itself on SKY even by covering the production costs of maybe 20 matches a season.

Outside broadcast costs now have never been so low and a decent broadcast can be done for as little as £5K you dont even need an outside broadcast unit.

This can more than be made up in sponsorship and will enable the championship to show how good and competitive it actually is on SKY which is still without doubt the best platform.

 

P 

Sky have had exclusive right to the Championship and they are not interested in showing more than a couple of key games a season. This has been the case for a long time. 

[ATLANTISMAN]

2 minutes ago, Scubby said:

Sky have had exclusive right to the Championship and they are not interested in showing more than a couple of key games a season. This has been the case for a long time. 

Thats because it costs them money and no other reason.

[Harry Stottle]

40 minutes ago, Kayakman said:

"A dollar to a doughnut" (as they say over here Harry) that the offer would have been higher if Toronto was in...provably by quite a bit...more than enough to have helped Toronto out and put a few pounds in all clubs pockets also!   Now look what you have went and done!

Season's Greetings to you and yours K'man, 

Well that is something that we will never get the answer to.

[Harry Stottle]

28 minutes ago, Oxford said:

It was aided by a few things not just ambition and a quick look at the whole rather than the bits would help harry.

Those clubs not in SL have become more professional but this started even before it was all on again. You don't give them enough credit while championing the Championship!

The Championship was heading nowhere Oxy, as I said I was witness to it, had P&R not been reinstated it would be struggling to survive now, poster's from those clubs who have increased their lot have expressed the opinion that they would abandin the game rather than return to no P&R.

[Scubby]

8 minutes ago, ATLANTISMAN said:

Thats because it costs them money and no other reason.

That's because they don't see it as a return on investment. They are not just suddenly going to broadcast a game covered by Rugby AM or someone because it is made available to them. They have broadcast standards to adhere to. It's not Freesports. 

[GUBRATS]

30 minutes ago, ATLANTISMAN said:

My feeling is that the championship should showcase itself on SKY even by covering the production costs of maybe 20 matches a season.

Outside broadcast costs now have never been so low and a decent broadcast can be done for as little as £5K you dont even need an outside broadcast unit.

This can more than be made up in sponsorship and will enable the championship to show how good and competitive it actually is on SKY which is still without doubt the best platform.

 

P 

No a highlights show similar to how MOTD used to be with one feature game from both divisions would be a better option for the lower tiers , ideally produced by themselves 

Live regular season games wouldn't necessarily show the competition in a good way IMO

[Damien]

2 hours ago, Tommygilf said:

It didn't work...

There's a difference between exploring options and playing hard ball when you're in a weak position. Scottish football was offerred something like £35 million, thought they could get better telling Sky to stuff it, couldn't get better and had to accept Sky's second offer of £25 million.

I seem to recall Super League doing this too a few TV deals ago.

[Oxford]

32 minutes ago, Harry Stottle said:

The Championship was heading nowhere Oxy, as I said I was witness to it, had P&R not been reinstated it would be struggling to survive now, poster's from those clubs who have increased their lot have expressed the opinion that they would abandin the game rather than return to no P&R.

'arry, arry it wasn't heading nowhere that was largely the fans experience on the whole. It was an understandable feeling given the obsession with P&R and focussed on what's the point then as all good RL fans tend to do even in our few times in the sun. There is also a bias towards what happens when you get in SL and not the crash and burn effects of the R bit. Part of the problem with that is that the circumstances of every club being different and this has disguised how bad relegation is for an organisation. There has also been another interpretation based on the ones that managed to get back in by staying full-time. And there's a fair bit more to it than all this.

[Scotchy1]

41 minutes ago, Harry Stottle said:

The Championship was heading nowhere Oxy, as I said I was witness to it, had P&R not been reinstated it would be struggling to survive now, poster's from those clubs who have increased their lot have expressed the opinion that they would abandin the game rather than return to no P&R.

Thats their choice. The game can't be held to ransom by them. 

We have lost substantial numbers of fans since P+R was brought back. 

[GUBRATS]

2 minutes ago, Oxford said:

'arry, arry it wasn't heading nowhere that was largely the fans experience on the whole. It was an understandable feeling given the obsession with P&R and focussed on what's the point then as all good RL fans tend to do even in our few times in the sun. There is also a bias towards what happens when you get in SL and not the crash and burn effects of the R bit. Part of the problem with that is that the circumstances of every club being different and this has disguised how bad relegation is for an organisation. There has also been another interpretation based on the ones that managed to get back in by staying full-time. And there's a fair bit more to it than all this.

Every club in SL is different , solve that one ?

[Oxford]

2 minutes ago, GUBRATS said:

Every club in SL is different , solve that one ?

That's not what I said but start the New Year the way you end this one by all means!

[ATLANTISMAN]

Problem is guys LICENSING WORKS only under a strict salary cap and draft system.

If we had a draft system in place under the present situation there is no way the smaller clubs would be able to bid for the first choices as they would not have the money.

So only thing that works at our level is P and R.

 

P 

 

[Damien]

1 minute ago, ATLANTISMAN said:

Problem is guys LICENSING WORKS only under a strict salary cap and draft system.

If we had a draft system in place under the present situation there is no way the smaller clubs would be able to bid for the first choices as they would not have the money.

So only thing that works at our level is P and R.

 

P 

Those two things aren't a requirement for licencing to work at all. A draft system will also never work and will never be possible in this country.

[ATLANTISMAN]

3 hours ago, Damien said:

Those two things aren't a requirement for licencing to work at all. A draft system will also never work and will never be possible in this country.

Which is  the problem we have as the clubs run RL in the UK not a strong governing body.

 

P 

[Scotchy1]

3 minutes ago, ATLANTISMAN said:

Problem is guys LICENSING WORKS only under a strict salary cap and draft system.

If we had a draft system in place under the present situation there is no way the smaller clubs would be able to bid for the first choices as they would not have the money.

So only thing that works at our level is P and R.

 

P 

 

 

1 minute ago, Damien said:

Those two things aren't a requirement for licencing to work at all. A draft system will also never work and will never be possible in this country.

A draft system is possible, but it would be a massive departure from what we have. Id actually argue that the split between SL and the RFL makes that easier but it would be a huge and complex system to implement. 

The salary cap is a bit of a red herring. There being a massive disparity between clubs financially just means that we dont apply the restrictions financially and instead look to another way such as the NRL suggestion of a points system.

Both of these however are secondary issues, they are tools to get us towards our ultimate goal, and our problem is that the game doesnt have an ultimate goal and the differences between clubs are so great that what is the ultimate goal for some is completely opposed to the goals of others. 

[GUBRATS]

21 minutes ago, Damien said:

Those two things aren't a requirement for licencing to work at all. A draft system will also never work and will never be possible in this country.

Neither will licencing or mergers 

[GUBRATS]

30 minutes ago, Oxford said:

That's not what I said but start the New Year the way you end this one by all means!

No you didn't , I said it , and it IS as relevant as what you said 

[Damien]

20 minutes ago, Scotchy1 said:

 

A draft system is possible, but it would be a massive departure from what we have. Id actually argue that the split between SL and the RFL makes that easier but it would be a huge and complex system to implement. 

The salary cap is a bit of a red herring. There being a massive disparity between clubs financially just means that we dont apply the restrictions financially and instead look to another way such as the NRL suggestion of a points system.

Both of these however are secondary issues, they are tools to get us towards our ultimate goal, and our problem is that the game doesnt have an ultimate goal and the differences between clubs are so great that what is the ultimate goal for some is completely opposed to the goals of others. 

How is it possible? It would stand up to absolutely no scrutiny the moment it was challenged, which it inevitably will be.

The legal side aside, the sport is in competition with other sports for the most talented youngsters. Tell a Wigan junior that they can't sign for Wigan and have to sign for Wakefield instead, for example, then just watch them go sign for Sale instead. Why would someone like Umyla Hanley, who Wigan have desperately fought off the RU vultures, put up with that?

Drafts are great in some sort of utopian fantasy. In RL, in the real world, they are not possible and unworkable.