Bedfordshire Bronco Posted December 23, 2020 Share Posted December 23, 2020 I was there a year.... Not in Brazil now! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ullman Posted December 23, 2020 Share Posted December 23, 2020 On 21/12/2020 at 11:06, The Hallucinating Goose said: I hope you have fun, as I say, simple enough to learn individual words and simpler phrases which should be all you'll need to know for reading articles online. You'll only have to know formal German cos you aren't having a conversation with someone and you don't need to worry about pronouns too much for the same reason, which is good cos there is about 10 words for you or your alone. To give you an idea about formality, the phrase 'you are gingerjon': Formal, 'Sie sind Gingerjon' Informal, 'Du bist Gingerjon' Different languages! The time, manner, place thing I mention is easy enough once you get the hang of it. Those three things in a sentence have to be in that order, or if there's only 2 of them, in the order they are in the phrase, time manner place. So for example, Time, Am Sonntag (on Sunday) Manner, mit mein Bruder (with my brother) Place, im Park (in the park) Keep these phrases in that order and the rest of the words in the sentence can go anywhere you like and it will still make sense, and as I say, you don't need all three phrases as long as the two remaining and in the correct order, so: Am Sonntag, ich spiele Rugby mit mein Bruder im Park. Ich spiele Rugby, Am Sonntag, mit mein Bruder, im Park. Am Sonntag, mit mein Bruder, im Park, Ich spiele rugby. Am Sonntag, Ich spiele, mit mein Bruder, im Park, rugby. Ich spiele, am Sonntag, mit mein Bruder, im Park, rugby. Rugby, am Sonntag, mit mein Bruder, ich spiele, im Park. And every other combination you can come up with! Great contributions to the thread and it's very helpful to stress the importance of Time Manner Place but a couple of things really leap out at me in your examples. The first one is that unless there's been a seismic shift in the grammatical rules since I was last in the country the verb is always the second idea in a sentence (not necessarily the second word but the second idea nonetheless). Rather than "Am Sonntag ich spiele Rugby" it should be "Am Sonntag spiele ich Rugby". The second one is "mit mein Bruder", "mit" always takes the dative so the correct form would be "mit meinem Bruder". German is a highly inflected language and that can be one of the most difficult things for a native English speaker to get their heads around. Anyway that's enough of the pedantry, let's get back to rugby. I have a string of academic qualifications in German but one of the best things I ever did as far as becoming fluent was concerned was to join Marburg Rugby Union (yeah I know but bear with me) Club. Apart from me and a lunatic caricature French chef, all of the players were German so I had no option but to speak the language. I also learnt all the essential key words (and the rude ones) that no text book ever taught me such as "Vorwurf", "Vorball" and "abseits". Although when the skipper shouted "Sturm links" or "Sturm rechts" it did sound like we were preparing to annex a neighbouring country. All of which is a long winded way of saying the more you're exposed to native speakers the better. It's the only way of truly mastering a language. "I'm from a fishing family. Trawlermen are like pirates with biscuits." - Lucy Beaumont. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GUBRATS Posted December 23, 2020 Share Posted December 23, 2020 They all speak English Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bedfordshire Bronco Posted December 23, 2020 Share Posted December 23, 2020 On 22/12/2020 at 14:37, Wiltshire Warrior Dragon said: I did German 'O' level twice some decades ago - 20% the first time, 32% the second. Progress, I suppose, but at that point I left it in abeyance! Would have been 44% had you done it again (I got maths GCSE) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Hallucinating Goose Posted December 23, 2020 Share Posted December 23, 2020 3 hours ago, Ullman said: Great contributions to the thread and it's very helpful to stress the importance of Time Manner Place but a couple of things really leap out at me in your examples. The first one is that unless there's been a seismic shift in the grammatical rules since I was last in the country the verb is always the second idea in a sentence (not necessarily the second word but the second idea nonetheless). Rather than "Am Sonntag ich spiele Rugby" it should be "Am Sonntag spiele ich Rugby". The second one is "mit mein Bruder", "mit" always takes the dative so the correct form would be "mit meinem Bruder". German is a highly inflected language and that can be one of the most difficult things for a native English speaker to get their heads around. Anyway that's enough of the pedantry, let's get back to rugby. I have a string of academic qualifications in German but one of the best things I ever did as far as becoming fluent was concerned was to join Marburg Rugby Union (yeah I know but bear with me) Club. Apart from me and a lunatic caricature French chef, all of the players were German so I had no option but to speak the language. I also learnt all the essential key words (and the rude ones) that no text book ever taught me such as "Vorwurf", "Vorball" and "abseits". Although when the skipper shouted "Sturm links" or "Sturm rechts" it did sound like we were preparing to annex a neighbouring country. All of which is a long winded way of saying the more you're exposed to native speakers the better. It's the only way of truly mastering a language. Woops, yep you're totally right, made a genuine mistake with the ich spiele, haven't lived there for a while and I havent been keeping up with duolingo much recently! I purposefully missed out the dative rule for your second correction to not overcomplicate things straight away, the guy has just decided to start learning one of the most grammatically complicated Western languages, let's not chuck too much info at him straight away, it would be similar to going to your first ever RL game at Craven Park, even I, a very experienced RL fan, only cross that bridge when I absolutely have to which is why I have never been there! Something I always say to people about German is if they want to learn it they need to learn to speak like Yoda. "On Sunday, play I rugby!" See what I mean?? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ullman Posted December 23, 2020 Share Posted December 23, 2020 1 minute ago, The Hallucinating Goose said: Woops, yep you're totally right, made a genuine mistake with the ich spiele, haven't lived there for a while and I havent been keeping up with duolingo much recently! I purposefully missed out the dative rule for your second correction to not overcomplicate things straight away, the guy has just decided to start learning one of the most grammatically complicated Western languages, let's not chuck too much info at him straight away, it would be similar to going to your first ever RL game at Craven Park, even I, a very experienced RL fan, only cross that bridge when I absolutely have to which is why I have never been there! Something I always say to people about German is if they want to learn it they need to learn to speak like Yoda. "On Sunday, play I rugby!" See what I mean?? You make a very good point. We don't want to scare Jon off Good job I didn't suggest "Jeden Sonntag spiele ich Rugby". Might be a bit early to introduce the concept of the adverbial accusative of time . "I'm from a fishing family. Trawlermen are like pirates with biscuits." - Lucy Beaumont. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Hallucinating Goose Posted December 23, 2020 Share Posted December 23, 2020 6 minutes ago, Ullman said: You make a very good point. We don't want to scare Jon off Good job I didn't suggest "Jeden Sonntag spiele ich Rugby". Might be a bit early to introduce the concept of the adverbial accusative of time . Surely not every Sunday?! That's impressive, Spiele ich Rugby jeder andere Sonntag weil bin ich faul... or something like that anyway. Any of the accusatives in German will have you banging your head against the wall when you're learning it but stick with it and the feeling of pride when you have mastered it is fantastic. If I remember rightly it was accusative pronouns that made me want to slip my wrists when I was learning all those years ago. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gingerjon Posted December 24, 2020 Author Share Posted December 24, 2020 12 hours ago, Ullman said: You make a very good point. We don't want to scare Jon off Build a man a fire, and he'll be warm for a day. Set a man on fire, and he'll be warm for the rest of his life. (Terry Pratchett) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mumby Magic Posted December 24, 2020 Share Posted December 24, 2020 I learn my German from Rammstein. Tbh 90 percent I know is from songs. Like poor jokes? Thejoketeller@mullymessiah Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ullman Posted December 24, 2020 Share Posted December 24, 2020 3 hours ago, Mumby Magic said: I learn my German from Rammstein. Tbh 90 percent I know is from songs. No bad thing, Till Lindemann is a brilliant songwriter and his lyrics are full of clever word plays. I love the way he uses the German language. "I'm from a fishing family. Trawlermen are like pirates with biscuits." - Lucy Beaumont. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gingerjon Posted March 11, 2021 Author Share Posted March 11, 2021 Well, I now want to murder Duo the Duolingo bird but we're getting there. I now know that Preterite is a tense and that declensions make me tense. But I'm enjoying it. Mostly. Alongside, trying to do a bit of 'immersion'. So I'm getting my morning classical music via NDR Kultur and watching a few things via the ZDF website. A Twitter friend recommended Die Familie Braun (which has German subtitles on the ZDF site) and is a snappy web series of 8 x 4ish minute episodes. It is also on YouTube. I've also now watched both series of Ku'Damm and not just because the idea of language lessons from Sonja Gerhardt is appealing. I think I got most of what was happening in both (again, via subtitles) but did probably miss a fair bit. It's all pretty simple though (men are gits, this guy is really gay, why won't anyone let is play rock n roll here). Lastly, polished off Die verlorene Tochter over the past few days. This was a lot more challenging but again German with German subtitles - and an actually interesting story, although it inevitably collapses a little bit in the closing stages. Had to have Google Translate on hand for some words and 'interesting' phrases. So, all still going well. Not listened to enough Rammstein though. That'll be next. Build a man a fire, and he'll be warm for a day. Set a man on fire, and he'll be warm for the rest of his life. (Terry Pratchett) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tommygilf Posted March 11, 2021 Share Posted March 11, 2021 As part of getting a bit more up to grips with Russian I followed a couple of Russian language twitter accounts. The news ones especially were good as they tended to have some regular phrases alongside a wide variety of nouns etc. and often a picture which helped give context on occasion. The news itself, well who knows... Fwiw @gingerjon, I've found the twitter stuff good for supplementing Duolingo where it can get a bit repetitive by adding a bit of spice Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JohnM Posted March 11, 2021 Share Posted March 11, 2021 I've got as far as "My owl never paints" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gingerjon Posted March 11, 2021 Author Share Posted March 11, 2021 6 hours ago, Tommygilf said: Fwiw @gingerjon, I've found the twitter stuff good for supplementing Duolingo where it can get a bit repetitive by adding a bit of spice There's a rather lovely YouTube account called Easy German who basically walk around Berlin (and a few other places) asking people cheerful questions. That's a nice balancer. You're right that Duolingo does get very repetitive at times. The only other real issue - and I don't know if I can fix in settings because I keep forgetting to look - is that it functions on German-American English translations. Mostly not a problem but when, as just now, it translates a specific German school level into its American equivalent then I'm actually none the wiser because that term doesn't exist here. Build a man a fire, and he'll be warm for a day. Set a man on fire, and he'll be warm for the rest of his life. (Terry Pratchett) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tommygilf Posted March 11, 2021 Share Posted March 11, 2021 11 minutes ago, gingerjon said: There's a rather lovely YouTube account called Easy German who basically walk around Berlin (and a few other places) asking people cheerful questions. That's a nice balancer. You're right that Duolingo does get very repetitive at times. The only other real issue - and I don't know if I can fix in settings because I keep forgetting to look - is that it functions on German-American English translations. Mostly not a problem but when, as just now, it translates a specific German school level into its American equivalent then I'm actually none the wiser because that term doesn't exist here. Yeah I've found the same with Russian "Mom" not "mum" is a pet peeve Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JonM Posted March 11, 2021 Share Posted March 11, 2021 The Spanish course gets loads of moans for the same reason - not only is it non-US speakers complaining about the US-specific language, but also loads of Spaniards moaning about the use of Mexican specific words. They expanded the course quite a lot recently and the new material is dreadful - bizarre, unidiomatic translations which clearly have not been looked at by a native speaker of either US or any other kind of English. I'd be pretty disappointed if I was actually paying for it. The Welsh course, on the other hand, is spot on, and the moderators are incredibly responsive, helpful with explanations and so on. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gingerjon Posted March 11, 2021 Author Share Posted March 11, 2021 8 minutes ago, JonM said: The Spanish course gets loads of moans for the same reason - not only is it non-US speakers complaining about the US-specific language, but also loads of Spaniards moaning about the use of Mexican specific words. They expanded the course quite a lot recently and the new material is dreadful - bizarre, unidiomatic translations which clearly have not been looked at by a native speaker of either US or any other kind of English. I'd be pretty disappointed if I was actually paying for it. The Welsh course, on the other hand, is spot on, and the moderators are incredibly responsive, helpful with explanations and so on. Yes, the Welsh course looks really good. Wish it had been around 25 years ago when I was learning Welsh. I did the introductory quiz on it to set my level and was impressed both by how "not bad" I did and also how well it all sounded. Build a man a fire, and he'll be warm for a day. Set a man on fire, and he'll be warm for the rest of his life. (Terry Pratchett) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marauder Posted March 11, 2021 Share Posted March 11, 2021 On 21/12/2020 at 09:41, gingerjon said: Following my staggering triumph in being able to utter the phrase, "Spreekt u Engels?" on the streets of Flanders, I'm setting myself a new language challenge. From my successful GCSE and wildly unsuccessful A-level, I have a vague knowledge of German but would like to massively improve. I 'did' Dutch with Babbel and found it to be "Mmmm, okay" ... if anyone has any experience of learning a more mainstream language with the wider resources available online then could you share your experiences? Which ones were good? What worked and what didn't? Local pubs seemed to be a good place to learn or the hänchen grill on the way back into camp. Carlsberg don't do Soldiers, but if they did, they would probably be Brits. http://www.pitchero....hornemarauders/ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marauder Posted March 11, 2021 Share Posted March 11, 2021 2 minutes ago, gingerjon said: Yes, the Welsh course looks really good. Wish it had been around 25 years ago when I was learning Welsh. I did the introductory quiz on it to set my level and was impressed both by how "not bad" I did and also how well it all sounded. Top bloke to learn Welsh, Carlsberg don't do Soldiers, but if they did, they would probably be Brits. http://www.pitchero....hornemarauders/ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
distantdog Posted March 12, 2021 Share Posted March 12, 2021 On 11/03/2021 at 14:40, Marauder said: Local pubs seemed to be a good place to learn or the hänchen grill on the way back into camp. Indeed! Fallingbostel being mine! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marauder Posted March 12, 2021 Share Posted March 12, 2021 4 hours ago, distantdog said: Indeed! Fallingbostel being mine! My spell was at Munsterlager Carlsberg don't do Soldiers, but if they did, they would probably be Brits. http://www.pitchero....hornemarauders/ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Futtocks Posted March 12, 2021 Share Posted March 12, 2021 On 11/03/2021 at 11:53, JohnM said: I've got as far as "My owl never paints" I got as far as "Mein Erdferkel hat Verstopfung". Let me never fall into the vulgar mistake of dreaming that I am persecuted whenever I am contradicted. Ralph Waldo Emerson Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
distantdog Posted March 12, 2021 Share Posted March 12, 2021 5 minutes ago, Marauder said: My spell was at Munsterlager Was that the one further north from Fally? Munster Oertze? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Elliot Posted March 12, 2021 Share Posted March 12, 2021 This is a great thread. I'm currently learning German via Duolingo and bits of other media. I've managed 320+ consecutive days so far and I'm not doing too bad. I've not tested my basic German out live yet but i am slowly getting to grips with the grammar and structure. Thanks for sharing some other resources too. Any more i can check out? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gingerjon Posted March 14, 2021 Author Share Posted March 14, 2021 On 12/03/2021 at 20:37, Elliot said: This is a great thread. I'm currently learning German via Duolingo and bits of other media. I've managed 320+ consecutive days so far and I'm not doing too bad. I've not tested my basic German out live yet but i am slowly getting to grips with the grammar and structure. Thanks for sharing some other resources too. Any more i can check out? A forum friend recommended these books and they're pretty decent for picking up new words and contexts. The same author has also done some more intermediate level crime ones. ARD and ZDF both have decent websites with a fair amount of content, a lot of which is both non-geoblocked and available with German subtitles. I now know how to inquire after someone's parentage and imply that they only have that opinion because the girl in question is a good lay. (There are other TV sites - Arte, for example - but levels of interest will probably depend on topics available.) Radio is widely available. ardaudiothek.de is a good place to start or there's the Radio Garden app. Actually speaking it in a supportive context in on my horizon but I'm not quite sure where/when/how that will happen yet. Build a man a fire, and he'll be warm for a day. Set a man on fire, and he'll be warm for the rest of his life. (Terry Pratchett) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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