Sky Sports halving offer-What are the ramifications for Championship and Championship 1 clubs?

[Magic XIII]

14 minutes ago, Devon Ram said:

 Lets face it where a second class sport has far has the BBC are concerned.

We're a second class sport as far as most people in this country are concerned !

[Tommygilf]

4 minutes ago, Devon Ram said:

Do we know that for sure or is the powers to be in Rugby League happy with the status Quo, lets look at it a different way plenty of providers out in the market place Rugby League offers a summer sport so why don't we offer a short deal to one of them plus put some decent advertising in to it or is the clubs happy with Sky's money but no chance of showing their product?? Lets face it where a second class sport has far has the BBC are concerned.

I mean nobody except the Super League board members can know for sure, but Elstone said most recently that he had spoken to loads of people over last summer around Broadcasting and PE. How much of that is truth and how much is down to making Sky nervous is anyone's guess, but I think its reasonable to assume there have been at least some discussions given it was Elstone's specified remit above all others to negotiate the TV deal.

Regardless, we have allowed ourselves to slip down Sky's priority list massively by essentially offering the same audience as we did 15 years ago, and the BBC (quite legitimately to some extent) see us as a regional sport just like Scottish football. If that is how we are viewed by Sky and the Beeb, why would Channel 4, Amazon, BT or anyone else see any need to view it differently? Moreover you can't just "offer" a product to people and force them to pay - if you want to reach the RL audience there are a lot of alternative ways to do it before most advertisers would come up with "sponsor in RL".

Fwiw, I think a broadcast deal that gave Sky priority but not exclusivity is the most viable future. Let them pick 2/3 games a week (plus any French game), which is essentially what they currently get, and have the other fixtures broadcast on FTA or another platform for a lower fee.

[Devon Ram]

1 hour ago, Magic XIII said:

We're a second class sport as far as most people in this country are concerned !

Well maybe 2021 with a better TV package with new providers will change things or we can stay in the past, TV viewing has changed so time for Rugby League to push itself has a great sport to watch.

[Devon Ram]

1 hour ago, Tommygilf said:

I mean nobody except the Super League board members can know for sure, but Elstone said most recently that he had spoken to loads of people over last summer around Broadcasting and PE. How much of that is truth and how much is down to making Sky nervous is anyone's guess, but I think its reasonable to assume there have been at least some discussions given it was Elstone's specified remit above all others to negotiate the TV deal.

Regardless, we have allowed ourselves to slip down Sky's priority list massively by essentially offering the same audience as we did 15 years ago, and the BBC (quite legitimately to some extent) see us as a regional sport just like Scottish football. If that is how we are viewed by Sky and the Beeb, why would Channel 4, Amazon, BT or anyone else see any need to view it differently? Moreover you can't just "offer" a product to people and force them to pay - if you want to reach the RL audience there are a lot of alternative ways to do it before most advertisers would come up with "sponsor in RL".

Fwiw, I think a broadcast deal that gave Sky priority but not exclusivity is the most viable future. Let them pick 2/3 games a week (plus any French game), which is essentially what they currently get, and have the other fixtures broadcast on FTA or another platform for a lower fee.

So maybe its time for somebody in the Rugby League media team plus social media team to think out of the box You tube channel to show live games.

[Tommygilf]

Just now, Devon Ram said:

So maybe its time for somebody in the Rugby League media team plus social media team to think out of the box You tube channel to show live games.

Youtube is potentially fantastic, but couldn't possibly provide the revenue to support the professional game a traditional broadcaster or streaming service like Amazon could alone.

[GUBRATS]

Realistically a decent deal would be live , preferably FTA coverage of the Bash and the play offs including GF , with a magazine highlights production of the regular season games , would there be any money for it ? Most likely not , but a start , I don't see anybody paying anything worthwhile for the lower tiers 

[Devon Ram]

17 minutes ago, Devon Ram said:

I mean nobody except the Super League board members can know for sure, but Elstone said most recently that he had spoken to loads of people over last summer around Broadcasting and PE. How much of that is truth and how much is down to making Sky nervous is anyone's guess, but I think its reasonable to assume there have been at least some discussions given it was Elstone's specified remit above all others to negotiate the TV deal.

Well it didn't work SKY where so nervous they got a better deal for themselves, who did the Super League use to negotiate with Sky Olly Robbins,

[Tommygilf]

11 minutes ago, Devon Ram said:

Well it didn't work SKY where so nervous they got a better deal for themselves, who did the Super League use to negotiate with Sky Olly Robbins,

SL are reportedly looking for £25 million, (them alone rather than the RFL and Championship share that have been bundled in as part of the previous deal).

£20 million might be the best market value they can get.

[Devon Ram]

2 minutes ago, Tommygilf said:

SL are reportedly looking for £25 million, (them alone rather than the RFL and Championship share that have been bundled in as part of the previous deal).

£20 million might be the best market value they can get.

That's something us fans will never know because both parties will hide the details under some corporate law of confidently.

[Magic XIII]

1 hour ago, Devon Ram said:

Well maybe 2021 with a better TV package with new providers will change things or we can stay in the past, TV viewing has changed so time for Rugby League to push itself has a great sport to watch.

I love rugby league, always have and always will BUT I now begrudgingly accept that as long as the elite game in ‘Europe’ is played in only Lancashire and Yorkshire we will never be taken seriously as a sport and that is reflected in broadcaster interest, sponsor engagement and anything other than extremely passing interest from the vast majority of UK. 

[Tommygilf]

1 hour ago, Devon Ram said:

That's something us fans will never know because both parties will hide the details under some corporate law of confidently.

I don't think its that complicated 

[Rugbyleaguesupporter]

48 minutes ago, Tommygilf said:

I don't think its that complicated 

It will be quite obvious- 12 clubs wont keep their share secret.

Championship would only work as a magazine show- follow a player from each club as a documentary and show the grand final plus a couple of games- rest on our league. No money in it that directly but clubs could get new support/ exploit some new opportunities 

[Tommygilf]

18 minutes ago, Rugbyleaguesupporter said:

It will be quite obvious- 12 clubs wont keep their share secret.

Championship would only work as a magazine show- follow a player from each club as a documentary and show the grand final plus a couple of games- rest on our league. No money in it that directly but clubs could get new support/ exploit some new opportunities 

Tbh I think fundamentally you can't argue that something is or isn't the best deal based on "facts" either side could hide behind some corporate legality, as was suggested. It's opinion based judgement.

I think the championship could work like that, but to be any good it would essentially have to reinvent itself and get some quality presentation and production people on board. Something which would cost money upfront.

[GUBRATS]

18 minutes ago, Rugbyleaguesupporter said:

It will be quite obvious- 12 clubs wont keep their share secret.

Championship would only work as a magazine show- follow a player from each club as a documentary and show the grand final plus a couple of games- rest on our league. No money in it that directly but clubs could get new support/ exploit some new opportunities 

Bash ( as it's 6/7 games for one production set up ) and the play offs including GF ( the viewing figures for these games are always higher ) , and then as you say a highlights , review , preview magazine show to set it all off , then see where that takes us with regards sponsorship , let's face it , I'm sure all these fans of expansion and indeed SL club fans would watch it 

[Devon Ram]

2 hours ago, Magic XIII said:

I love rugby league, always have and always will BUT I now begrudgingly accept that as long as the elite game in ‘Europe’ is played in only Lancashire and Yorkshire we will never be taken seriously as a sport and that is reflected in broadcaster interest, sponsor engagement and anything other than extremely passing interest from the vast majority of UK. 

Everybody keeps saying broadcasters not interested yep SKY & BBC treat the sport like but what about other providers do we know 100% somebody has spoke to them ?

[whatmichaelsays]

10 hours ago, Devon Ram said:

Everybody keeps saying broadcasters not interested yep SKY & BBC treat the sport like but what about other providers do we know 100% somebody has spoke to them ?

I think it's a fair assumption that the invitation to tender would have gone to all relevant broadcasters. 

But you need to stop looking at this through the eyes of a rugby league supporter. 

Amazon, Quest and C4 are broad appeal networks, not specialist sports networks. So the first and foremost question is whether Championship RL, or indeed any RL, has enough broad appeal to their audiences to be commercially viable - to generate the volume and quality of viewers to generate enough ad revenue and/or subscriptions to cover the production and rights costs. 

Given that the BBC determines that Country File has more appeal to its audiences in the southern regions than the Super League Show (and given that they have plenty of data on how RL content is consumed from viewing figures, BBC Online and iPlayer, let's assume that's a decision based on some credible evidence), I think we already have a decent bellwether as to the how valuable the rights may be to the likes of C4 or Quest. The fact that C4 is now based in Leeds doesn't really change the nature of the audience they have to appeal to. 

[Harry Stottle]

27 minutes ago, whatmichaelsays said:

The fact that C4 is now based in Leeds doesn't really change the nature of the audience they have to appeal to. 

That would most probably go against Rugby League than for it, considering that in a city that is indoctrinated in the sport, is one of the most successful historically and the most successful in the past 25years of the SL era, that out of a populas of 800,000 it can only attract in the region of 11-12,000 regular home fans, OK I am not privvy to how many TV veiwers Leeds has, but if I was a TV executive who would be splashing out I would be thinking if the return we can see is so frugally supported in evidence of a cross-sectional place that is so steeped in the game how would it welcomed in virgin areas.

[Harry Stottle]

@Tommygilf would you invest in Rugby League if you were that TV executive on the evidence I submitted?

[whatmichaelsays]

3 hours ago, Harry Stottle said:

That would most probably go against Rugby League than for it, considering that in a city that is indoctrinated in the sport, is one of the most successful historically and the most successful in the past 25years of the SL era, that out of a populas of 800,000 it can only attract in the region of 11-12,000 regular home fans, OK I am not privvy to how many TV veiwers Leeds has, but if I was a TV executive who would be splashing out I would be thinking if the return we can see is so frugally supported in evidence of a cross-sectional place that is so steeped in the game how would it welcomed in virgin areas.

I think that's a fair question to raise, even if I wouldn't put it as harshly as you do (I wouldn't, for instance, say that Leeds is "a city that is indoctrinated in the sport" given that Leeds is a very diverse audience and leisure market compared to most of RL land), but yeah, let's ask the question why a club like Leeds hasn't really expanded it's audience in recent years. Why are people in Leeds choosing to go to glass-fronted bars on Call Lane to drink expensive cocktails with weeds poking out of them on Friday nights, rather than going to Headingley? Is that an audience that the club wants? If not, then who?

I do think that looking at matchday gates is an increasingly narrow-minded view and, as you suggest, it may be that Leeds may be much more successful when it comes to putting bums on sofas for Sky TV on Thursday or Friday nights, but yeah, we currently have two of our biggest clubs in Leeds and Wigan both showing declines (or poor growth) in matchday attendances. The big questions are "why?" and "what do we do about it?". If they're problems specific to Leeds and Wigan, it's on Leeds and Wigan to address. If it's a problem that's more widespread, then there are much bigger issues to tackle.  

[Tommygilf]

46 minutes ago, Harry Stottle said:

@Tommygilf would you invest in Rugby League if you were that TV executive on the evidence I submitted?

You wouldn't, but you wouldn't be based anywhere else with a Super League team either, bar maybe Salford, and your strawman would become even worse!

[Cerulean]

18 hours ago, Magic XIII said:

I love rugby league, always have and always will BUT I now begrudgingly accept that as long as the elite game in ‘Europe’ is played in only Lancashire and Yorkshire we will never be taken seriously as a sport and that is reflected in broadcaster interest, sponsor engagement and anything other than extremely passing interest from the vast majority of UK. 

But our very regional game did once have a significant national profile. Teams, towns, players, even commentators, were known nationally. The sport was highly respected for many of its qualities, including the way it conducted itself, and including its very obvious pride in its regional nature. The Challenge Cup final was one of the major sporting occasions of the nation. Rugby League was often spoken of as being the nation’s third professional sport. Rugby League was once taken very seriously,  as a nationally known sport with a regional basis. This is not a view through nostalgic spectacles: there was a time when a Hunslet shirt on the Norfolk Broads, or a Featherstone badge on the beach at St Ives, would have instigated a conversation.

Yes, the past is a different country, but it’s worth exploring why the sport’s status has diminished so much. And it may be that brushing aside its proud history and regional nature is partly responsible for some of the damage. Perhaps embracing what the game is, and has been, can have a place in its aspirations.

[GUBRATS]

1 minute ago, Cerulean said:

But our very regional game did once have a significant national profile. Teams, towns, players, even commentators, were known nationally. The sport was highly respected for many of its qualities, including the way it conducted itself, and including its very obvious pride in its regional nature. The Challenge Cup final was one of the major sporting occasions of the nation. Rugby League was often spoken of as being the nation’s third professional sport. Rugby League was once taken very seriously,  as a nationally known sport with a regional basis. This is not a view through nostalgic spectacles: there was a time when a Hunslet shirt on the Norfolk Broads, or a Featherstone badge on the beach at St Ives, would have instigated a conversation.

Yes, the past is a different country, but it’s worth exploring why the sport’s status has diminished so much. And it may be that brushing aside its proud history and regional nature is partly responsible for some of the damage. Perhaps embracing what the game is, and has been, can have a place in its aspirations.

At that time it was on FTA TV on Saturday afternoon well over a dozen times a year , providing entertainment just before the football pools results , an event whatched by probably 50% of the population 

 

[Tommygilf]

5 minutes ago, Cerulean said:

But our very regional game did once have a significant national profile. Teams, towns, players, even commentators, were known nationally. The sport was highly respected for many of its qualities, including the way it conducted itself, and including its very obvious pride in its regional nature. The Challenge Cup final was one of the major sporting occasions of the nation. Rugby League was often spoken of as being the nation’s third professional sport. Rugby League was once taken very seriously,  as a nationally known sport with a regional basis. This is not a view through nostalgic spectacles: there was a time when a Hunslet shirt on the Norfolk Broads, or a Featherstone badge on the beach at St Ives, would have instigated a conversation.

Yes, the past is a different country, but it’s worth exploring why the sport’s status has diminished so much. And it may be that brushing aside its proud history and regional nature is partly responsible for some of the damage. Perhaps embracing what the game is, and has been, can have a place in its aspirations.

Quite simply, because standing still is going backwards. 

[Devon Ram]

Sorry i give up !!! if that's how you all think then lets sit back & let the game die its all GLOOM GLOOM & shut down anybody who might think there's hope if you try with most reply's its ifs & buts this might have already been done but nobody can say 100% its been tried.

Well lets look forward to another 20 years of stagnation in Rugby League.

[whatmichaelsays]

9 minutes ago, Devon Ram said:

Sorry i give up !!! if that's how you all think then lets sit back & let the game die its all GLOOM GLOOM & shut down anybody who might think there's hope if you try with most reply's its ifs & buts this might have already been done but nobody can say 100% its been tried.

Well lets look forward to another 20 years of stagnation in Rugby League.

Pointing out realistic barriers that the game needs to overcome is not "talking the game down" or being "gloom gloom gloom". Don't you see how ridiculous that sounds?

I appreciate that it might have been the sentiment of much the political discourse in this country recently, but that doesn't make it right.

It's telling that you've ducked many of the reasonable questions put to you as to what you think the game is worth to the broadcasters that you think the game should be approaching.