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Wakefield Trinity plans submision


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4 minutes ago, M j M said:

They have fixed charges over everything that moves - they aren't really exposed:

 

bellevue-charge2.jpg

Yeah, they're effectively a lender. The land isn't really worth that much unless Wakefield Trinity are doing something with it though - and in any case the Council want Wakefield to kick on with this now they have helped secure the ownership of the land.

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2 minutes ago, dboy said:

What point are you making?

You said WMDC want a return on "their" loan. 

It's in WMDCs interest to have a strong successful club, but the loan was predicated on the existing facility - it isn't tied to there being a new build.

If there isn't a new build, the status quo remains, and Wakefield continue to service the loan as they are doing currently.

The council can't justify backing £3 million into Belle Vue with nothing to come out of it bar the freehold.

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5 minutes ago, ShropshireBull said:

Well you only have one team and dont want to protect the french teams to make that happen.  Fev would put more into Wakefield but that wouldnt grow the game.  

Wakey's lack of commercial income is the reason for its 'we need away fans' regionalist approach.  As the clubs starts to gain money from other revenue streams it may start to see the positives that French games at Wakefield can bring and be less dependent on the fortunes of other clubs for its success.  I will say no more. 

In what way would Fev put more into SL than Wakefield?

Wakefield don't "lack" a revenue stream, but the facility LIMITS it severely.

Wakefield run at a profit BTW, and have NO historic debts.

Of course, if they can't increase revenue (and that's nothing to way the silly away fans argument), they will fall away. 

The new environment = more fans, more comfort, more commercial activity, more diverse income streams, throughout the year = more money to be able to get to the cap and be competitive.

Rocket science, it is not.

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8 minutes ago, Tommygilf said:

Yeah, they're effectively a lender. The land isn't really worth that much unless Wakefield Trinity are doing something with it though - and in any case the Council want Wakefield to kick on with this now they have helped secure the ownership of the land.

The most correct term would be guarantor.

Despite unfounded rumours that the club overpaid for the land, an independent audit (which I think was done in relation to Manny Hussein's arrangement with a council official, not the club), found that it was actually a reasonable/correct commercial value.

If Wakey cease to exist tomorrow, the land is already worth more than the loan. 

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9 minutes ago, dboy said:

In what way would Fev put more into SL than Wakefield?

Wakefield don't "lack" a revenue stream, but the facility LIMITS it severely.

Wakefield run at a profit BTW, and have NO historic debts.

Of course, if they can't increase revenue (and that's nothing to way the silly away fans argument), they will fall away. 

The new environment = more fans, more comfort, more commercial activity, more diverse income streams, throughout the year = more money to be able to get to the cap and be competitive.

Rocket science, it is not.

Think i said all that about one hour ago bar fev putting more into SL than Wakefield.  Thats a misread on your part. 

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2 minutes ago, ShropshireBull said:

Think i said all that about one hour ago bar fev putting more into SL than Wakefield.  Thats a misread on your part. 

Well I'm glad we've finally agreed that I was right all along.

Anyway, simple summary - when I see it, I'll believe it. We've been near before, but not this near!

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10 minutes ago, Man of Kent said:

Looks like Belle Vue is about to enter the 20th century. Good stuff. 

Look not everyone's lucky enough to be able to move in with a football club they can give half their turnover to. 

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I was born to run a club like this. Number 1, I do not spook easily, and those who think I do, are wasting their time, with their surprise attacks.

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2 hours ago, GUBRATS said:

8K ? 😱🤔😂 , Seriously 😂

I think the current limit for the safety certificate is 7400 or 7600. The exact same layout had a capacity of 11000 for the first 'million pound' game against Cas. 

The North terrace capacity will increase slightly with renovation even with removing the NE corner. The new east stand may be actually a reduction to 2500 all-seater (not sure of the current mixed capacity). The Western terrace and benidorm flats in the south will not be changed in this phase. Renovating the crumbling west would probably put it back up to something like 11k.

The overall effect will be a modest increase in capacity, but a big increase in facilities that can generate income. 

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8 hours ago, ShropshireBull said:

Well you only have one team and dont want to protect the french teams to make that happen.  Fev would put more into Wakefield but that wouldnt grow the game.  

Wakey's lack of commercial income is the reason for its 'we need away fans' regionalist approach.  As the clubs starts to gain money from other revenue streams it may start to see the positives that French games at Wakefield can bring and be less dependent on the fortunes of other clubs for its success.  I will say no more. 

Bizarre comment really sponsorship up and commercial side booming

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7 hours ago, Wholly Trinity said:

I think the current limit for the safety certificate is 7400 or 7600. The exact same layout had a capacity of 11000 for the first 'million pound' game against Cas. 

 

And thats exactly the point I was making on the £100M thread regarding upkeep of old stadia. Unless clubs spend large sums every year they get their capacity reduced by the Council

St.Helens - The Home of Rugby Champions

Saints Men's team - Triple Champions & Double Winners ; Saints Women's team - Treble Winners ; Thatto Heath - National Conference Champions

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10 hours ago, dboy said:

It's a great question that us Trinity fans never thought to ask for the Q&A.

The current East Stand holds nothing like 2500 - maybe a 1000??? So a big leap there.

The North Stand has a safety limit on, so when the re-furb is done, maybe add another 1000???

Current capacity is just short of 8K I think - so maybe 10k when East and North are done - West to follow in due course.

Is funding in place for the West stand as part of the Newmarket deal or does that sit outside and have to find funding elsewhere?

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10 hours ago, dboy said:

The council haven't put any money into the club.

They arranged access to a local government loan scheme, which the club pays, in full, on time, with interest. Is that what you meant?

There is however a section of the refurb given over to community use - gym, cafe, studios, meeting space.

Who earns the revenue from the section handed over to community use? That’s a key detail

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1 hour ago, Saint Toppy said:

And thats exactly the point I was making on the £100M thread regarding upkeep of old stadia. Unless clubs spend large sums every year they get their capacity reduced by the Council

Indeed, and if you're planning on moving to a brand new stadium, there's no point in spending any more than the minimum to keep it open.

The latest drops in capacity were a few years ago when they found the safety barrier anchor points were not secure. An initiative from fans to do the structural work on many of them meant it still got a certificate. 

The stadium is mainly built on ash covered with concrete which is well past its sell-by date. 19th century engineering. 

 

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1 hour ago, Saint Toppy said:

And thats exactly the point I was making on the £100M thread regarding upkeep of old stadia. Unless clubs spend large sums every year they get their capacity reduced by the Council

True , but Wakey don't need an 11 K capacity currently , they could easily run at current levels , providing this new stand gets built , although it either looks expensive for what it is , or it could have done with having more non match day income generation built into it , all IMO

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11 hours ago, dboy said:

No he means things like the promised TV income, that never materialised. The French corporate sponsorships that never materialised. The competitive French international team that never materialised...

In cold, hard cash - Fev would put more into SL coffers than Catalans do.

And no, I wouldn't want Fev in SL over Catalans!

They aren't the responsibility of the Catalans club. Those are the responsibilities of Super League / the RFL and, in the case of the latter point, the FFRXIII. None of which the Catalans have any control over. It's also worth mentioning that one of SL's main sponsors is a division of Renault. 

Following that logic, you may as well argue that Michael Carter is personally responsible for the fall in TV income, the pizza sponsorship and the fact that Kallum Watkins wasn't fast enough to evade that ankle tap in 2013.

Edited by whatmichaelsays
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7 minutes ago, GUBRATS said:

True , but Wakey don't need an 11 K capacity currently , they could easily run at current levels , providing this new stand gets built , although it either looks expensive for what it is , or it could have done with having more non match day income generation built into it , all IMO

How much will it cost? 

I think the contribution from the developers was mooted at 7.8 or 8.4 million previously. There are other sources of income and the chairman has been negotiating hard to squeeze a suitable amount from the developers.

The total budget I think includes the new stand with all the facilities detailed, north terrace refurb and remodel, car park and fan zone, roof on the current clubhouse, new floodlights, a 4g pitch, permanent big screen and I think the community refit of the clubhouse once the new stand is open. 

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38 minutes ago, Wholly Trinity said:

 

The stadium is mainly built on ash covered with concrete which is well past its sell-by date. 19th century engineering. 

 

That's the same issue Saints had with their Eddington Rd stand, built on ash. They had to build a set of new access steps one year on the side of the stand and every time they excavated the trench just collapsed. The new steps then settled about 80mm more than expected so they then had to weld additional handrails on to meet the standard for handrail height. It was a complete mess and very expensive just to save around 2K from being knocked off their stadium capacity.

St.Helens - The Home of Rugby Champions

Saints Men's team - Triple Champions & Double Winners ; Saints Women's team - Treble Winners ; Thatto Heath - National Conference Champions

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13 minutes ago, Wholly Trinity said:

How much will it cost? 

I think the contribution from the developers was mooted at 7.8 or 8.4 million previously. There are other sources of income and the chairman has been negotiating hard to squeeze a suitable amount from the developers.

The total budget I think includes the new stand with all the facilities detailed, north terrace refurb and remodel, car park and fan zone, roof on the current clubhouse, new floodlights, a 4g pitch, permanent big screen and I think the community refit of the clubhouse once the new stand is open. 

Great , but as I put , shame they couldn't include more non match day income generation 

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1 minute ago, GUBRATS said:

Great , but as I put , shame they couldn't include more non match day income generation 

The 4g pitch, a terrible sporting solution as it may be, is supposed to be important in this from what I understand.

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4 minutes ago, GUBRATS said:

Great , but as I put , shame they couldn't include more non match day income generation 

The new stand includes a 300 seat restaurant/function room. This is additional to those in the current clubhouse. 

A big source of income will be the multi-use 4g pitch. Talk of Wakefield FC returning from Fev. Money will be saved on renting facilities for training and playing at many sites for the multitude of teams, firsts, reserves, academy, women, pdrl, ldrl etc.

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