Wakefield Trinity plans submision

[Robin Evans]

4 minutes ago, The Future is League said:

For over 20 years, no.Nobody can be that unlucky and i maintain they are doing what they are doing at the moment is that they have heard rumours of a new criteria for Super League and are trying to buy time.

Fair enough. Why divert from the path?

A proven strategy that works....

 

[The Future is League]

3 minutes ago, Robin Evans said:

Fair enough. Why divert from the path?

A proven strategy that works....

 

If they have heard a rumour about ground criteria for Super League they know they won't be able to come out with any more BS. They have cried wolf too many times before and this time they will have to show real intent and seriousness about a new ground or a total revamp of Belle Vue.

[Gav Wilson]

13 minutes ago, The Future is League said:

For over 20 years, no.Nobody can be that unlucky and i maintain they are doing what they are doing at the moment is that they have heard rumours of a new criteria for Super League and are trying to buy time.

York's stadium saga lasted a good 20 years, but we got there in the end. These things need a lot of luck with timing.

I supported Wakefield's application on the WMDC planning portal anyway, every little helps.

[sentoffagain2]

53 minutes ago, The Future is League said:

If they have heard a rumour about ground criteria for Super League they know they won't be able to come out with any more BS. They have cried wolf too many times before and this time they will have to show real intent and seriousness about a new ground or a total revamp of Belle Vue.

   New ground shared with Cas would be the best option.Or both clubs will be throwing money at trying to improve outdated stadiums.1980 Trinity chairman Trevor Woodward said we are in the wrong place,with antiquated facilities in a built up area.Apart from the traffic problem the site is best cleared and used for social housing subject to planning.Life of council house 80 to 100 years .Development paid for at 5g a year rent after 20yrs then the council has profit coming in from the remaining rental period 60/80yrs its a no brainer.

[Robin Evans]

2 minutes ago, sentoffagain2 said:

   New ground shared with Cas would be the best option.

For the reasons you cite, it would really be the best option. But there has to be a will to make that happen.

Most of my mates that follow trinity would not want that.... so they tell me.

 

[Tommygilf]

9 minutes ago, sentoffagain2 said:

   New ground shared with Cas would be the best option.Or both clubs will be throwing money at trying to improve outdated stadiums.1980 Trinity chairman Trevor Woodward said we are in the wrong place,with antiquated facilities in a built up area.Apart from the traffic problem the site is best cleared and used for social housing subject to planning.Life of council house 80 to 100 years .Development paid for at 5g a year rent after 20yrs then the council has profit coming in from the remaining rental period 60/80yrs its a no brainer.

No chance. Where?

[sentoffagain2]

42 minutes ago, Tommygilf said:

No chance. Where?

   It is the sensible thing to do,thats why its no chance .Short term thinking instead of looking 20years ahead.How much money would be needed to bring Belle Vue and Wheldon road up to a modern stadium level 15 to 20 million at a coservative estimate.Trevor Woodward wanted a stadium where the Pugneys country park is or even Heath common .Altofts/Whitwood close to the M62 motorway was mentioned and Clarence park was proposed in 2007 14000 capacity at a cost of 15 million but as it was a public park with poor traffic access the plan was dropped.I do feel sorry for  Trinity   a   team i supported from 1957 to 1971 they have been badly let down by business and the Council.

[Tommygilf]

Just now, sentoffagain2 said:

   It is the sensible thing to do,thats why its no chance .Short term thinking instead of looking 20years ahead.How much money would be needed to bring Belle Vue and Wheldon road up to a modern stadium level 15 to 20 million at a coservative estimate.Trevor Woodward wanted a stadium where the Pugneys country park is or even Heath common .Altofts/Whitwood close to the M62 motorway was mentioned and Clarence park was proposed in 2007 14000 capacity at a cost of 15 million but as it was a public park with poor traffic access the plan was dropped.I do feel sorry for  Trinity   a   team i supported from 1957 to 1971 they have been badly let down by business and the Council.

For Wakefield those would be suitable (to varying degrees), but why on earth would Cas move there to share?

[GUBRATS]

1 hour ago, Robin Evans said:

For the reasons you cite, it would really be the best option. But there has to be a will to make that happen.

Most of my mates that follow trinity would not want that.... so they tell me.

 

You have mates ?

[Robin Evans]

Just now, GUBRATS said:

You have mates ?

I draw the line at lancastrians......

[sentoffagain2]

1 hour ago, Tommygilf said:

For Wakefield those would be suitable (to varying degrees), but why on earth would Cas move there to share?

   Normanton Altofts area  would be a decent choice but both clubs will go on chucking good money after bad.As a Fev supporter if our ground was a disgrace to present day R.L. and not fit for purpose i would have no problem sharing a new stadium with Wakey if it was built in the Sharlston,Crofton,or Walton area.Reversable seats nowadays flip them over and both sides can have their own colours on match day.Although i cant speak for the rest of our fans.

[Tommygilf]

9 minutes ago, sentoffagain2 said:

   Normanton Altofts area  would be a decent choice but both clubs will go on chucking good money after bad.As a Fev supporter if our ground was a disgrace to present day R.L. and not fit for purpose i would have no problem sharing a new stadium with Wakey if it was built in the Sharlston,Crofton,or Walton area.Reversable seats nowadays flip them over and both sides can have their own colours on match day.Although i cant speak for the rest of our fans.

Fundamental problem is its not in either of the towns. To varying extents these are highly local enterprises that whilst they draw from wider than their local area, are rooted in their town. Moving Wakefield to Normaton may as well move into Headingley. Like you say even you would only consider sharing if it was effectively already in Fev, which logically would make no sense for Wakefield Trinity.

The council shouldn't have absconded responsibility as it has for decades for all 3 clubs. Supporting Wakefield redeveloping their ground represents a major step.

[OMEGA]

Trevor Woodward was completely correct back in the late 70s to early 80s when he said a new ground at the yet to be developed land around what is now Pugneys.

Unfortunately and like many clubs at the time, Trinity were a members club run by a committee of small time business men with limited imagination and ambition. They rejected Woodward’s proposal and diminished him in the eyes of the members so much so that he lost the Chairmanship and not long after had nothing to do with Trinity.

If his vision had come to fruition, Wakefield Trinity would have emerged as one of the giants of the game. Wakefield would have had facilities as good as anyone, they’d have been attractive to new signings, the best juniors, sponsors, advertisers and hospitality. The location would have been accessible being straight off M1 junction 39 and just 2 miles south of the M62/M1 intersection. Better facilities and improved accessibility would have seen greater numbers of home and away fans, all money flowing into the coffers of Wakefield Trinity.

Instead we’ve had Scaif, Ingram, Richardson, Pearman ect as Chairmen and we’ve played out of an uninviting dump that attracts no one but especially not big sponsors or advertisers. 40 years of missed opportunity and who knows how many finals etc.

Sliding doors eh?

[Gav Wilson]

19 hours ago, Johnoco said:

Do you think it would have taken as long if York had been in SL for those 20 years? 

I honestly don't think that would have made a blind bit of difference.

[LeeF]

So let’s say Wakefield get planning permission and have the funding available which looks a possibility where does that leave Cas?

[Chris Taylor]

6 minutes ago, LeeF said:

So let’s say Wakefield get planning permission and have the funding available which looks a possibility where does that leave Cas?

Same place as it does now. 

They need to improve ASAP.

[Tommygilf]

32 minutes ago, Gav Wilson said:

I honestly don't think that would have made a blind bit of difference.

I think its far more to do with having York City and the Knights at a fairly high level and crucially at the same ground. 

Whilst the former has been applicable to Cas and Wakefield for years now, the latter is unlikely in the next decade or two.

[Davo5]

21 minutes ago, LeeF said:

So let’s say Wakefield get planning permission and have the funding available which looks a possibility where does that leave Cas?

Well they will have exclusive rights to the local artists.

[LeeF]

1 hour ago, Chris Taylor said:

Same place as it does now. 

They need to improve ASAP.

Doesn’t it increase the pressure on them to actually do something?

[OMEGA]

At some point in the future, not sure if it’ll be sooner or later, the RFL and Super League will grow some testicles and get serious about stadium standards. When they do the clubs that can’t match their requirements will be served a notice of demotion which will allow them a short period of time to complete the necessary building work or prepare for the Championship.

Currently that would mean Wakefield Trinity closely followed by Castleford Tigers, however, if Wakefield complete the improvements currently under planning review then Castleford may well find themselves on a fast track out of SL.

Why a fast track?

One of SLs conundrums with Wakefield and Castleford is they have by far the worst stadiums but they have arguably the richest catchment area for talent and youth development in the whole game. If you removed both from SL then you risk shrinking the talent base for young players as there is no top tier club to isnpire the kids to pick up a rugby ball, no local community work and no local heroes who went to their school or lived at the end of their Road.

If (IF) Wakefield (or Castleford for that matter) build a stadium that’s fit for purpose then they solve that conundrum for the RFL & SL leaving the other WMDC SL club under more pressure as the game tries to improve its media image.

It was a fact not lost on former Wakefield Council leader Peter Box who blocked, schemed and prevaricated over all of Wakefield Trinity’s stadium plans at every opportunity! For those who do not know Box was/is a Tigers fan and shareholder.

[Hela Wigmen]

3 minutes ago, OMEGA said:

At some point in the future, not sure if it’ll be sooner or later, the RFL and Super League will grow some testicles and get serious about stadium standards. When they do the clubs that can’t match their requirements will be served a notice of demotion which will allow them a short period of time to complete the necessary building work or prepare for the Championship.

Currently that would mean Wakefield Trinity closely followed by Castleford Tigers, however, if Wakefield complete the improvements currently under planning review then Castleford may well find themselves on a fast track out of SL.

Why a fast track?

One of SLs conundrums with Wakefield and Castleford is they have by far the worst stadiums but they have arguably the richest catchment area for talent and youth development in the whole game. If you removed both from SL then you risk shrinking the talent base for young players as there is no top tier club to isnpire the kids to pick up a rugby ball, no local community work and no local heroes who went to their school or lived at the end of their Road.

If (IF) Wakefield (or Castleford for that matter) build a stadium that’s fit for purpose then they solve that conundrum for the RFL & SL leaving the other WMDC SL club under more pressure as the game tries to improve its media image.

It was a fact not lost on former Wakefield Council leader Peter Box who blocked, schemed and prevaricated over all of Wakefield Trinity’s stadium plans at every opportunity! For those who do not know Box was/is a Tigers fan and shareholder.

Why would they be demoted? Oldham weren’t denied promotion by The RFL due to Whitebanks not meeting Championship standards, instead they played out of Stalybridge Celtic Football Club. 

[OMEGA]

1 minute ago, Hela Wigmen said:

Why would they be demoted? Oldham weren’t denied promotion by The RFL due to Whitebanks not meeting Championship standards, instead they played out of Stalybridge Celtic Football Club. 

With no disrespect to Oldham, Championship 1 or even The Championship they aren’t the face of Rugby League that we present to the world at large on a weekly basis.

Its just my opinion but driven by the falling participation numbers and viewing figures I think the RFL and broadcast partners will realise they need to make big changes and be ruthless!

A rebrand is needed across the game but in particular through the top tier clubs and both the BBC & SKY presentation of the game. I don’t think late 19th and very early 20th century dilapidated stadiums will fit the rebrand.

[Oldbear]

18 hours ago, OMEGA said:

 

Sliding doors eh?

And my mate directed that movie!

Actually though it’s a good comparison, the route taken those years ago has hamstrung Wakefield ever since, another reason why I would love to see some stadium progress there, if only to see what potential still exists.

[Hela Wigmen]

Just now, OMEGA said:

With no disrespect to Oldham, Championship 1 or even The Championship they aren’t the face of Rugby League that we present to the world at large on a weekly basis.

Its just my opinion but driven by the falling participation numbers and viewing figures I think the RFL and broadcast partners will realise they need to make big changes and be ruthless!

A rebrand is needed across the game but in particular through the top tier clubs and both the BBC & SKY presentation of the game. I don’t think late 19th and very early 20th century dilapidated stadiums will fit the rebrand.

I just don’t get the desperation from some to want to throw clubs out of the competition when they may well be delivering in plenty of other areas. If we start throwing clubs out purely for a lack of a ground, why aren’t we throwing clubs out purely for lack of Academies, not enough fans or offering little to competition? 

[OMEGA]

13 minutes ago, Hela Wigmen said:

I just don’t get the desperation from some to want to throw clubs out of the competition when they may well be delivering in plenty of other areas. If we start throwing clubs out purely for a lack of a ground, why aren’t we throwing clubs out purely for lack of Academies, not enough fans or offering little to competition? 

I’m not desperate anything!

The game is shrinking at an alarming rate and it was long before Covid-19s effect.

We've lost huge numbers of amateur teams and in some cases whole amateur clubs have disappeared. The latest Sport England participation numbers were dire and well down on 10 to 15 years ago. Viewing figure have fallen drastically over the same period of time and with that fall we’ve lost coverage and magazine shows like SL Extra Time, Boot n All, Championship coverage has pretty much disappeared and NRL coverage is well down. We can’t attract headline sponsors for our Top Tier Competition and have basically given Rights away. The international game has all but vanished apart from the World Cup! We no longer have Full Lions/Kangaroo/ Kiwi Tours, we no longer have Tri Nations competitions and we have to beg The NRL to play the WCC every year.

Now believe it or not I’m not a doom monger and I’m not ringing the bell for the demise of the game but the above are all facts and we can’t afford to ignore the direction of travel the games been following for well over a decade.

Something has to change and it needs to be something big and meaningful that will reinvigorate the game and help it arrest the decline.

Edited January 18, 2021 by OMEGA