Highly educated rugby league players

[Dunbar]

Wrong thread.  Ignore

[Manfred Mann]

 

If you look through the list of NRL players or recent NRL players whom I have listed, you will see that practical professional qualifications are the norm, with Commerce being the main choice. Nobody has chosen to get a Bachelor of Arts degree, which is the best vehicle for what might be called a more general education, which is what I think JohnM is hinting at.  Even Justin Olam's impressive degree in Applied Physics would seem to be a practical career choice, since it gives him options to become an engineer. It would be great if players could get the cultural rounding that comes from studying, history, philosophy, literature, and foreign languages but the monetary payback after graduation from that kind of more rounded and culturally uplifting education is very limited, so naturally players see no point in pursuing it.

Interesting though that Ava Seumanufagai, now at Leeds, decided to get a degree in a Psychology. I am not sure how marketable that is, though perhaps good for attaining the broader education that I mentioned.

[Wiltshire Warrior Dragon]

John M Risman (son of Bev) studied at Oxford University and was the first player to openly receive a double blue, at union and league, in 1984.  I don't know to what extent he played league thereafter.  

A year earlier, another double blue had been Cambridge's Simon Roberts, but to avoid union prejudices and possible action, he apparently played the league varsity match as Robert Simons!

Ady Spencer was the key player around whom Cambridge built their team in the 1990s, when they apparently dominated the varsity match.  However, the RFU banned him in 1994, after he played in that season's union game, because he had played in league matches in which some of the players were paid though probably not him)  This prompted an early day motion in the House of Commons from Doug Hoyle, the current speaker's father, I think; it was entitled "Double Standards of the Rugby Football Union" and compared the RFU's harsh treatment of Spencer with their lenient approach to Mike Catt.

Spencer went on to play professionally for London's league teams.

Dr Neil Tunnicliffe (RFL CEO, 1998-2000) also played for Cambridge at league.

[GUBRATS]

Tom Armstrong , formally of Saints , moved from Leigh to Sheffield to attend UNI there can't remember which degree it was , but a scientific one as I recall 

[Sports Prophet]

On 26/12/2020 at 10:20, Manfred Mann said:

Rugby league has long been looked down upon by the educated segments of the population in the UK, Australia and New Zealand, because its players are mostly poorly educated, and often inarticulate. Many have even dropped out of high school. This is a result of the fact that rugby league is primarily a working class game. Rugby Union recruits from the middle and upper middle classes, and its players, by contrast, are generally much better educated than rugby league players, and many are university graduates and highly articulate. Some are doctors and lawyers.

While this view of rugby league players has a basis in reality, there are some top quality rugby league players who have achieved high levels of tertiary education.an representative legend winger, Wendell Sailor.

What an illegitimate of a thread. It would appear to me that you are the only one making these ill educated assumptions @Manfred Mann

[Hela Wigmen]

Loads of players have degrees or study for degrees part-time while playing. It’s not exactly a massive shock these days. 

[The Rocket]

5 hours ago, Manfred Mann said:

It would be great if players could get the cultural rounding that comes from studying, history, philosophy, literature, and foreign languages but the monetary payback after graduation from that kind of more rounded and culturally uplifting education is very limited, so naturally players see no point in pursuing it.

Individual subjects at Australian Universities average about $1000 per subject these days. Students can easily end up with a $40 000+ debt by the time they graduate. In fact the Government has recently increased the cost of humanities courses by up to 50 % to discourage people from taking those courses and to steer them into fields they consider more employable or worthy to the economy.

I agree that what is more worthy to the economy/society is extremely debatable, especially in this era of partisanship, self-centredness and materialism, a little bit of the broadening of one`s perspective should be actively encouraged not discouraged with price penalties on those subjects.

In my day it was all free and I was able to incorporate a bit of anthropology, history, philosophy, education or whatever I thought looked interesting into my Economics degree, it was absolutely fantastic and really like you say what university should be all about. 

I read the discussion between JohnM and Sir Kevin and I could see where they were both coming from, but I do think that although what John was saying about learning beginning on the job is true as each graduate adapts his/her degree to the individual specifics of the business they join, I do think that a university education can help to hone those skills of collecting information and presenting it in a report. Something that you do over and over at university.

[Sports Prophet]

Can we call this the “Ady Spencer and University Rugby League” thread?

[Manfred Mann]

49 minutes ago, Sports Prophet said:

What an illegitimate of a thread. It would appear to me that you are the only one making these ill educated assumptions @Manfred Mann

Pity that you were not able to specify why I have presented “an illegitimate of a thread” (sic) and why my assertions were “ill educated assumptions,” as you so politely put it. Evidence for why I am allegedly wrong would have been a good start. But perhaps you don’t have any evidence to provide, and you are writing just based upon a feeling or a “gut instinct.”

[Manfred Mann]

25 minutes ago, Hela Wigmen said:

Loads of players have degrees or study for degrees part-time while playing. It’s not exactly a massive shock these days. 

Can you name a few such players in the UK or France, and the details of their study, as I requested in my original post?

[Manfred Mann]

23 minutes ago, The Rocket said:

Individual subjects at Australian Universities average about $1000 per subject these days. Students can easily end up with a $40 000+ debt by the time they graduate. In fact the Government has recently increased the cost of humanities courses by up to 50 % to discourage people from taking those courses and to steer them into fields they consider more employable or worthy to the economy.

I agree that what is more worthy to the economy/society is extremely debatable, especially in this era of partisanship, self-centredness and materialism, a little bit of the broadening of one`s perspective should be actively encouraged not discouraged with price penalties on those subjects.

In my day it was all free and I was able to incorporate a bit of anthropology, history, philosophy, education or whatever I thought looked interesting into my Economics degree, it was absolutely fantastic and really like you say what university should be all about. 

I read the discussion between JohnM and Sir Kevin and I could see where they were both coming from, but I do think that although what John was saying about learning beginning on the job is true as each graduate adapts his/her degree to the individual specifics of the business they join, I do think that a university education can help to hone those skills of collecting information and presenting it in a report. Something that you do over and over at university.

Great post.

Do you mind my asking what your profession is?

[GUBRATS]

10 minutes ago, Manfred Mann said:

Great post.

Do you mind my asking what your profession is?

You first ?

[Davo5]

56 minutes ago, Manfred Mann said:

Can you name a few such players in the UK or France, and the details of their study, as I requested in my original post?

Joel Tomkins ; Proctologist 

[Bedfordshire Bronco]

1 hour ago, Davo5 said:

Joel Tomkins ; Proctologist 

He's in that area for sure

[Sports Prophet]

On 26/12/2020 at 10:20, Manfred Mann said:

Rugby league has long been looked down upon by the educated segments of the population in the UK, Australia and New Zealand, because its players are mostly poorly educated, and often inarticulate. 

I think you will find @Manfred Mann it is you making the assumptions here, not me. Is your highlighted comment based on your extensive research of the schooling of professional RL players? 

Your thread did not require any of your woeful commentary, just a simple thread that starts with something like “Are there any other players in our game with a higher education like (insert player name here)”. 

[Sports Prophet]

3 hours ago, GUBRATS said:

You first ?

My guess is he is either a stirrer or an artist. Maybe both, but I would suggest his specialty in either field is 5hit 

[Farmduck]

On 26/12/2020 at 20:16, Man of Kent said:

Interesting post. I’m a big believer in smarter players make for a better team. 

I’m guessing the NRL/clubs have some sort of education programme...?

When the U20s still operated there was a requirement that all players either have a job or be students. Currently payments related to education expenses are exempt from the NRL salary cap.

[Wire quin]

Didn't a few of the Leeds players hook up with the Beckett Uni (I think thats its name) and study sports science? Peacock may have been one. 

[Manfred Mann]

On 26/12/2020 at 02:58, Johnoco said:

I’m still struggling with tertiary?

Keep struggling and you’ll probably succeed in the end. Persistence is a virtue.

[Blind side johnny]

16 hours ago, Manfred Mann said:

Can you name a few such players in the UK or France, and the details of their study, as I requested in my original post?

If you didn't research it properly in the first instance then why post it?

[Padge]

On 27/12/2020 at 08:38, Johnoco said:

Some people have degrees and PhD’s yet couldn’t tie their own shoelaces, academic qualifications do not necessarily equate with common sense or the ability to converse well.

Believe it or not, I went to university and some of the lecturers (Mech eng) were mind blowingly intelligent but they couldn’t explain things in simple language- they’d struggle to tell you how to boil an egg. 

A boss of mine many many years ago assigned me to look after a graduate, he said to me quite seriously "he's just got his degree, make sure he doesn't hurt himself by holding a screwdriver the wrong way around,  make sure he doesn't kill anybody by doing something stupid, but let him do stupid things because he will learn from them."

9 months later he died while on holiday in Spain when he jumped off his balcony into the swimming pool at his hotel. That was one stupid lesson he was never able to learn from.

[Newguy]

8 hours ago, Padge said:

A boss of mine many many years ago assigned me to look after a graduate, he said to me quite seriously "he's just got his degree, make sure he doesn't hurt himself by holding a screwdriver the wrong way around,  make sure he doesn't kill anybody by doing something stupid, but let him do stupid things because he will learn from them."

9 months later he died while on holiday in Spain when he jumped off his balcony into the swimming pool at his hotel. That was one stupid lesson he was never able to learn from.

So it wasn't a degree in physics then?