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Selling The Drama


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1 minute ago, Tommygilf said:

Change it to whatever, gourmet fish and chips if you fancy! That's precisely the point.

Making something fun and enjoyable for people beyond the pure sport enthusiast is a good thing all round!

RL IS fun and enjoyable , if you think it isn't , why do you go ?

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2 minutes ago, Tommygilf said:

Oh great, so we go from 50 - 70k to 90 - 100? 

Its relatively tiny numbers Dave. And in areas that sadly have little relevance or sway in any media or otherwise. Its arguing over peanuts. 

TV numbers are far more relevant, and we've reportedly just been offered £20 million for those. 

No, the first step was that, why ignore the rest?

You made the claim, moving the goalposts highlights your agenda, I'll leave you to it. 

 

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10 minutes ago, Tommygilf said:

I know you think that is clairvoyant stating of the hard facts Gubby, but it is literally what the Hearn's said for Boxing and Darts years ago and plenty of other sports have done since 😂 Well done!

Our crowds dwarf darts' crowds. 

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3 minutes ago, GUBRATS said:

How many of these boxing and darts fans pay to go and watch it every other weekend for 20 times a year ?

They don't need to, the price of a quality ticket to the boxing or a few days at Ally Pally (plus all the added extras) comes in at about the same as many Super League season tickets! 

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2 minutes ago, Tommygilf said:

Change it to whatever, gourmet fish and chips if you fancy! That's precisely the point.

Making something fun and enjoyable for people beyond the pure sport enthusiast is a good thing all round!

My recently moved neighbour was a former deputy head from Newcastle , in Leigh's last SL season 2017 he and his wife attended 2 RL games , Catalans and magic weekend resplendent in their 2017 vintage shirts , so yes , we have our events and essentially non regulars do attend them , as we see when lower clubs have a good cup run , still doesn't mean they will then roll up every week , it's different 

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3 minutes ago, GUBRATS said:

RL IS fun and enjoyable , if you think it isn't , why do you go ?

I agree it is, but I'd say the majority of my mates don't care too much, and it is certainly easier to get them to come if we make the game part of something more than "the sport is dead good".

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1 hour ago, DC77 said:

It’s not really an anomaly. What’s happened is the method of scoring has changed. There isn’t the same volume of long distance tries (again, in both codes, as they share cross pollination..especially RL coaches to RU). There just isn’t the space or freedom to make them in such a regular basis now. Tries are scored from a lot closer in, often after grinding down the opposition. Defences are far better organised, with space at a premium for attacking players, so you get more of the bulldozing type tries (certainly in RU). With less individualist tries scoring will then be more spread out, so a total like Offiah’s 57 is unreachable. Lomu scoring four tries vs England, that ain’t happening today. He’d be lucky to get two.

Is there any evidence to back this up or is it your memory/perception of how the game is now played?

Statistics from the Super League are impossible to come by but as I have posted in another thread, in the NRL in 2019 4 out of every 10 tries was scored from a play starting outside the 20 metre line of the opposition and 1 in every 10 tries started from a play 40 metres out or longer.

There were 1,331 tries scored in the NRL in 2019 so 532 were scored from a play starting outside the 20m line and 133 from outside the 40m (this is plays where the attacking team plays the ball and so intercepts etc. are not counted in the distance analysis).

When it comes to individual players, St George Illawarra fullback Matt Dufty scored 8 in the year which started further than 40 metres away from the line with Ryan Papenhuyzen on 7 and Josh Addo-Carr with 6.

Now, I genuinely don't know how this compares to tries scored in the 80's and 90's or earlier as those types of stats are not available.  But I posted this data last time in response to a comment that said 'almost every try' is scored from close to the line which is clearly not true.

The problem I have with trying to compare era's is that I used to watch one game of Rugby League live in person and maybe another live on tv... everything else was highlights at best.  Now, I am watching 8 or 9 live games a week.  If I were to simply watch the NRL or Super League highlights packages then I would assume every game was full of breaks and tries.

My view is that modern defences are better organized than ever before and more difficult to break down but modern players are more skillful than ever before in order to break down these defences.

"The history of the world is the history of the triumph of the heartless over the mindless." — Sir Humphrey Appleby.

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1 minute ago, Tommygilf said:

They don't need to, the price of a quality ticket to the boxing or a few days at Ally Pally (plus all the added extras) comes in at about the same as many Super League season tickets! 

See my post above 

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1 minute ago, GUBRATS said:

My recently moved neighbour was a former deputy head from Newcastle , in Leigh's last SL season 2017 he and his wife attended 2 RL games , Catalans and magic weekend resplendent in their 2017 vintage shirts , so yes , we have our events and essentially non regulars do attend them , as we see when lower clubs have a good cup run , still doesn't mean they will then roll up every week , it's different 

Oh my word I am astounded! 😂 

Surely then you can see the value in trying to attract more people like that?

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2 minutes ago, Tommygilf said:

They don't need to, the price of a quality ticket to the boxing or a few days at Ally Pally (plus all the added extras) comes in at about the same as many Super League season tickets! 

Their choice then 

So what are you arguing about ? , Would you rather RL fans only go to the cup final than support their team all year ? 

Sorry mate you've lost the plot , bye for now 

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Just now, GUBRATS said:

Their choice then 

So what are you arguing about ? , Would you rather RL fans only go to the cup final than support their team all year ? 

Sorry mate you've lost the plot , bye for now 

You've got upset because you've proven yourself wrong, as often happens with mental gymnastics 

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2 minutes ago, Tommygilf said:

I agree it is, but I'd say the majority of my mates don't care too much, and it is certainly easier to get them to come if we make the game part of something more than "the sport is dead good".

Like what ? Tell me , EXACTLY what would make your mates go watching RL ? EXACTLY ? 

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1 minute ago, Tommygilf said:

You've got upset because you've proven yourself wrong, as often happens with mental gymnastics 

Didn't think I'd ever do this , but it's the ignore button for you , has Scotchy hacked your account , click

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8 minutes ago, Dave T said:

No, the first step was that, why ignore the rest?

You made the claim, moving the goalposts highlights your agenda, I'll leave you to it. 

Because it was obvious nonsense?

Next time the challenge cup crowds come up lets wait and see till we get the usual excuses for why its poor. People go to Catalans, Magic and the Grand Final etc, all perfect examples of how we're selling to the same people (in general terms) rather than a broader spectrum.

8 minutes ago, Dave T said:

Our crowds dwarf darts' crowds. 

Doesn't matter, a few days at Ally Pally or good tickets at the boxing cost as much as a full super league season ticket - and are aimed at the same market. 

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8 minutes ago, Tommygilf said:

As if on cue! Guess which one it was this season!

A perfect example of the media, players and coaches thinking fans are fascinated by things like percentages and metres. Sure people appreciate the grind and the effort, but that isn't going to get the turnstiles clicking. I'm a stats geek and enjoy looking at the numbers, but jeez, this Aussie mentality is really taking over - this stuff is for match review sessions behind closed doors. 

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7 minutes ago, Dunbar said:

 

 

The problem I have with trying to compare era's is that I used to watch one game of Rugby League live in person and maybe another live on tv... everything else was highlights at best.  Now, I am watching 8 or 9 live games a week.  If I were to simply watch the NRL or Super League highlights packages then I would assume every game was full of breaks and tries.

 

This is one of the reasons I don't think we should have regular lower tier RL live on TV , it's perception 

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Just now, Dave T said:

A perfect example of the media, players and coaches thinking fans are fascinated by things like percentages and metres. Sure people appreciate the grind and the effort, but that isn't going to get the turnstiles clicking. I'm a stats geek and enjoy looking at the numbers, but jeez, this Aussie mentality is really taking over - this stuff is for match review sessions behind closed doors. 

I agree a lot with that mate, its deeply problematic attitude.

That said a lot of purist fans do like this stuff and value players based on this stuff. "He works hard" is a common phrase on the terraces!

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Just now, Dave T said:

A perfect example of the media, players and coaches thinking fans are fascinated by things like percentages and metres. Sure people appreciate the grind and the effort, but that isn't going to get the turnstiles clicking. I'm a stats geek and enjoy looking at the numbers, but jeez, this Aussie mentality is really taking over - this stuff is for match review sessions behind closed doors. 

I certainly could never imagine someone like Offiah having that outlook. Yes the game has changed somewhat but he had that real desire to get over the tryline and lived for that buzz, pretty similar to top strikers in Football.

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12 hours ago, Damien said:

I think it needs to be remembered that in the late 80s we played many more games. Offish may have scored that many tries but it was in 40+ games in all competitions.

Indeed.  But Offiah scored 37 tries in the league in the 1988-89 season.   A season in which Widnes played 26 games.  And Makinson scored 23 tries in the league in a season in which Saints played 29 games.

And Saints in 2019 scored more points per game in 2019 than Widnes did in 1988-89.

"The history of the world is the history of the triumph of the heartless over the mindless." — Sir Humphrey Appleby.

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9 minutes ago, Dave T said:

A perfect example of the media, players and coaches thinking fans are fascinated by things like percentages and metres. Sure people appreciate the grind and the effort, but that isn't going to get the turnstiles clicking. I'm a stats geek and enjoy looking at the numbers, but jeez, this Aussie mentality is really taking over - this stuff is for match review sessions behind closed doors. 

In an interview he is essentially saying that soring tries is him on the end of good team play and his metres is his contribution to the team effort.  I think that is fair enough.

"The history of the world is the history of the triumph of the heartless over the mindless." — Sir Humphrey Appleby.

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