Catalans prospects in 2021

[Sir Kevin Sinfield]

51 minutes ago, DimmestStar said:

Would be better if English players counted on Catalans quota. 7 non-French players only and we'd have a better chance of progress being made in France.

2021 I expect will be similar to most seasons - good spells and bad spells.

This would only be fair if French players counted on British clubs quota. I’m not sure this would benefit the French National team.

[Cumbrian Mackem]

59 minutes ago, Sir Kevin Sinfield said:

That’s not what I said. Theo Fages, Morgan Escare, Romaine Navarrete, Tong Gigot all play in Super League for clubs other than Catalans. To say Catalans have the pick of any French player is simply not true. Any Super League club can offer a French player a contract.

“Wakefield is closer to some parts of France than Perpignan.”

Apart from Theo fages all the players you named have played for the dragons.

[PECETTO]

4 hours ago, Cumbrian Mackem said:

The dragons have potentially the best pick of the crop of French RL talent because they are in super league.

Potentially then, because some of them prefer play for toulouse.

[DimmestStar]

1 hour ago, Sir Kevin Sinfield said:

This would only be fair if French players counted on British clubs quota. I’m not sure this would benefit the French National team.

Yes of course you'd have to have French counting on English clubs quota also.

I just don't see the point of having a team in France packed predominantly with English and Aussie players and an English coach. After 15 years in Super league it's disappointing.

[Sir Kevin Sinfield]

1 hour ago, DimmestStar said:

Yes of course you'd have to have French counting on English clubs quota also.

I just don't see the point of having a team in France packed predominantly with English and Aussie players and an English coach. After 15 years in Super league it's disappointing.

Yes Catalans have 6 English, 1 Welsh, 5 players of other nationalities, but they also have 13 French players in their squad. Yes they have an English head coach they also have a French assistant coach. 
 

Wakefield have 2 French players and 8 players of other nationalities. Very similar, all clubs need to be held to the same standards.

[Cumbrian Mackem]

2 hours ago, DimmestStar said:

Yes of course you'd have to have French counting on English clubs quota also.

I just don't see the point of having a team in France packed predominantly with English and Aussie players and an English coach. After 15 years in Super league it's disappointing.

But....but....English fans can enjoy a p#ss up in the sun in the south of France.

[Cumbrian Mackem]

4 hours ago, Jeff Stein said:

Presumably all those complaining about the lack of progression of French juniors are also busily petitioning the clubs to allow Catalan back into the academy competition.

Wasn’t it the Catalans decision to withdraw from the academy setup?

[Cumbrian Mackem]

2 hours ago, PECETTO said:

Potentially then, because some of them prefer play for toulouse.

Which French players prefer to play at a lower level and presumably less money?

if there is any then I suspect they are a small minority,

[Sir Kevin Sinfield]

19 minutes ago, Cumbrian Mackem said:

Which French players prefer to play at a lower level and presumably less money?

if there is any then I suspect they are a small minority,

Firstly Catalans have a salary cap to keep to, they couldn’t necessarily outbid Championship sides or other Super League teams for French players on every occasion. Then you have players like Anthony Marion and Maxime Puech who have played their whole career to date at Toulouse. Players have loyalty to clubs and don’t leave on a whim. 

[The Rocket]

On 01/01/2021 at 01:42, Dunbar said:

Catalan's eternal problem is discipline and in particular discipline in big games.  This is not just foul play but also the discipline to not lose focus and get distracted when decisions start to go against them.

They were a team that suffered from discipline problems in 2019 and then recruited James Maloney and Joel Tomkins and amazingly enough their discipline problems didn't disappear.

Until they solve this part of their game they will always be in the 'competitive but not good enough' category.

 

On 01/01/2021 at 01:50, Damien said:

This is it in a nutshell. For years it has been apparent what Catalans problems are and what needs to be done to improve them.  However you then see the signings they proceed to make and it makes you wonder if the people running them are watching a completely different team.

On 31/12/2020 at 16:09, Manfred Mann said:

It is hard to imagine that coach Steve McNamara can retain his position if the club, with all its remaining talent,  does not make the playoffs in 2021

To be perfectly frank I think that blind freddy could see that Catalans have an attitude problem and whether Steve McNamara is the man to change that given his previous coaching record you would have to wonder.

Let go from Bradford holding several " unwanted " club records, i.e. longest losing streak, failure to make playoffs for first time and criticised for teams " lacklustre" performances. As England coach fails to make final of home WC. with a team many have said on here better than the 2017 squad. He`s the Stephen Kearney of the northern hemisphere, dud coach but people keep giving him a job. And apart from the CC his record at Catalans hasn`t been that flash, this isn`t a club on the bones of its` ar$se, it can afford some quality talent.

Strikes me if you want to go to the next level in Super League the Catalans are going to have to get an Aussie coach, like your other big clubs.

People on here have said that the `play the ball` fiasco in your comp is indicative of a general laxness in intensity, kids over here have it drummed into them form u6`s how to get up and play the ball properly and all the other 1%`s,  I`ve seen u13`s over here doing fully opposed sessions over and over and over. I`ve seen Aussie junior coaches and you would think they are coaching an NRL side they take it so seriously. This goes the whole way up the system.

McNamara is in a similar situation as Michael Maguire at the Tigers where he is attempting to change a culture, Maguire has shown with is run in with Matterson and the bloke they let go to Manly(the prop) if you don`t buy in you can go. Does McNamara have the same grit, given the way his side rolls over when things aren`t going their way I am not so sure.

As Manfred said one more year and no improvement he should go.

 

 

[Davo5]

1 hour ago, Cumbrian Mackem said:

Which French players prefer to play at a lower level and presumably less money?

if there is any then I suspect they are a small minority,

How do you know they would be on less money at Toulouse ?

[Oldbear]

24 minutes ago, The Rocket said:

He`s the Stephen Kearney of the northern hemisphere, dud coach but people keep giving him a job. And apart from the CC his record at Catalans hasn`t been that flash, this isn`t a club on the bones of its` ar$se, it can afford some quality talent.

 

 

This is the key point here, McNamara is a rank average coach who keeps getting jobs. As a result any team he coaches will never fully realize it’s potential. His CC win has probably bought him a degree of job security that his record otherwise doesn’t deserve and failing a meltdown next season he won’t get fired, however unless he is replaced Catalans seasons will probably continue to end the same way, that is scraping into the playoffs then an I’ll disciplined meltdown once they get there. Imagine what someone like Ian Watson could do at that club.

[sweaty craiq]

8 hours ago, Cumbrian Mackem said:

Wakefield is closer to the French RL heartland than Perpignan is it

Think he needs this

[Cumbrian Mackem]

2 hours ago, Davo5 said:

How do you know they would be on less money at Toulouse ?

I don’t hence the question mark.

[Cumbrian Mackem]

4 hours ago, Sir Kevin Sinfield said:

Firstly Catalans have a salary cap to keep to, they couldn’t necessarily outbid Championship sides or other Super League teams for French players on every occasion. Then you have players like Anthony Marion and Maxime Puech who have played their whole career to date at Toulouse. Players have loyalty to clubs and don’t leave on a whim. 

To be fair I think a few French players are hesitant to leave the comforts of the south of France and try their luck in the north of England but hopefully over time this will change.

At least players like springer, deziaria, bergal, miloudi, escare and navertte etc have tried their luck overseas.

 

[Copa]

On 31/12/2020 at 16:09, Manfred Mann said:

Catalans Dragons have been promising great success but not delivering for the 14 years that they have been in Super League. The exception was their extraordianry Challenge Cup Final victory in 2018.

So if you ignore their success, they haven’t delivered..

[PECETTO]

10 hours ago, Cumbrian Mackem said:

Which French players prefer to play at a lower level and presumably less money?

if there is any then I suspect they are a small minority,

They all want To play in SL, but with toulouse. Kheirallah or Ford had many proposition with SL clubs, but prefer To stay in toulouse. Great city, good coach and strong ambition. 

[Sir Kevin Sinfield]

36 minutes ago, PECETTO said:

They all want To play in SL, but with toulouse. Kheirallah or Ford had many proposition with SL clubs, but prefer To stay in toulouse. Great city, good coach and strong ambition. 

I think Toulouse will gain promotion this year, they have some added quality overseas players to compliment their French talent. It’ll be interesting to see who the bookies put as favourites when they start taking bets on the Championship.

[Sir Kevin Sinfield]

9 hours ago, Oldbear said:

This is the key point here, McNamara is a rank average coach who keeps getting jobs. As a result any team he coaches will never fully realize it’s potential. His CC win has probably bought him a degree of job security that his record otherwise doesn’t deserve and failing a meltdown next season he won’t get fired, however unless he is replaced Catalans seasons will probably continue to end the same way, that is scraping into the playoffs then an I’ll disciplined meltdown once they get there. Imagine what someone like Ian Watson could do at that club.

Steve McNamara’s side finished 4th from top in the league and have previously won the Challenge Cup. Ian Watson’s side finished 3rd from bottom of the league and have previously won nothing. Steve McNamara does not get the credit he deserves as a coach.

[barnyia]

10 hours ago, The Rocket said:

 

To be perfectly frank I think that blind freddy could see that Catalans have an attitude problem and whether Steve McNamara is the man to change that given his previous coaching record you would have to wonder.

Let go from Bradford holding several " unwanted " club records, i.e. longest losing streak, failure to make playoffs for first time and criticised for teams " lacklustre" performances. As England coach fails to make final of home WC. with a team many have said on here better than the 2017 squad. He`s the Stephen Kearney of the northern hemisphere, dud coach but people keep giving him a job. And apart from the CC his record at Catalans hasn`t been that flash, this isn`t a club on the bones of its` ar$se, it can afford some quality talent.

Strikes me if you want to go to the next level in Super League the Catalans are going to have to get an Aussie coach, like your other big clubs.

People on here have said that the `play the ball` fiasco in your comp is indicative of a general laxness in intensity, kids over here have it drummed into them form u6`s how to get up and play the ball properly and all the other 1%`s,  I`ve seen u13`s over here doing fully opposed sessions over and over and over. I`ve seen Aussie junior coaches and you would think they are coaching an NRL side they take it so seriously. This goes the whole way up the system.

McNamara is in a similar situation as Michael Maguire at the Tigers where he is attempting to change a culture, Maguire has shown with is run in with Matterson and the bloke they let go to Manly(the prop) if you don`t buy in you can go. Does McNamara have the same grit, given the way his side rolls over when things aren`t going their way I am not so sure.

As Manfred said one more year and no improvement he should go.

 

 

Why do I see some Aussies put the ball on the floor,let go then play the ball.

Or hold the ball in the right hand and play the ball with the left foot or vice versa?

[Harry Stottle]

17 hours ago, DimmestStar said:

Would be better if English players counted on Catalans quota. 7 non-French players only and we'd have a better chance of progress being made in France.

2021 I expect will be similar to most seasons - good spells and bad spells.

Thanks for that DS, I asked Sir Kev "Honest question, are English lads classed as overseas player's in France and Visa Versa?" he either chose to ignore it or didn't know the answer!

So I take it that English or French going overseas to ply their trade, don't count as overseas player's?

If so, theoretically any French club present or future could fill up their squad with the "overseas" allowance and top up with British (expanded from just English) player's!

[barnyia]

When the uk was in Europe yes, thats why most teams used to ask the aussies if they had européen passports, I'm not sure if a European passport will be useful for British teams now, unless they give an exception because its a European club competition, in the french elite levels an English man was always a foreign player even though legally i don't think they where allowed to do that. 

Maybe the English players will be counted as foreign players but I've only read about the club needing to get resident cards/work permits for the players and their families. 

[ATLANTISMAN]

The Dragons were in a far better place before they started to sign English players period.

By far the best 2 coaches were Mick Potter and Trent Robinson who gave the French lads a fair crack of the whip.

 

Paul

[Harry Stottle]

11 hours ago, The Rocket said:

 

To be perfectly frank I think that blind freddy could see that Catalans have an attitude problem and whether Steve McNamara is the man to change that given his previous coaching record you would have to wonder.

Let go from Bradford holding several " unwanted " club records, i.e. longest losing streak, failure to make playoffs for first time and criticised for teams " lacklustre" performances. As England coach fails to make final of home WC. with a team many have said on here better than the 2017 squad. He`s the Stephen Kearney of the northern hemisphere, dud coach but people keep giving him a job. And apart from the CC his record at Catalans hasn`t been that flash, this isn`t a club on the bones of its` ar$se, it can afford some quality talent.

Strikes me if you want to go to the next level in Super League the Catalans are going to have to get an Aussie coach, like your other big clubs.

People on here have said that the `play the ball` fiasco in your comp is indicative of a general laxness in intensity, kids over here have it drummed into them form u6`s how to get up and play the ball properly and all the other 1%`s,  I`ve seen u13`s over here doing fully opposed sessions over and over and over. I`ve seen Aussie junior coaches and you would think they are coaching an NRL side they take it so seriously. This goes the whole way up the system.

McNamara is in a similar situation as Michael Maguire at the Tigers where he is attempting to change a culture, Maguire has shown with is run in with Matterson and the bloke they let go to Manly(the prop) if you don`t buy in you can go. Does McNamara have the same grit, given the way his side rolls over when things aren`t going their way I am not so sure.

As Manfred said one more year and no improvement he should go.

 

 

So what did McNamara learn as an assistant coach in Aus?

I completely agree with you that player's in their formative year's should be treated as younger first grade player's and not as kid's if the desire is to familiarize them with good habits that become second nature as they advance through the ranks. This is what is wrong our system in Britain, we watch what is happening in gametime in the NRL and then try to emulate it on the field with player's that have not had the same background training from an early age, by the time we have caught up the NRL has advanced to the next playing stratergies, obviously we have some of our better player's who can adapt, but without the abillity of our average player's to step up as quickly we will always be a couple of steps behind, and it can all be aligned back to junior development and instilling the rudiments as second nature and no more emphasized than in the "play the ball area".

PS, who is 'Blind Freddy'? 

[The Rocket]

59 minutes ago, Harry Stottle said:

So what did McNamara learn as an assistant coach in Aus?

I completely agree with you that player's in their formative year's should be treated as younger first grade player's and not as kid's if the desire is to familiarize them with good habits that become second nature as they advance through the ranks. This is what is wrong our system in Britain, we watch what is happening in gametime in the NRL and then try to emulate it on the field with player's that have not had the same background training from an early age, by the time we have caught up the NRL has advanced to the next playing stratergies, obviously we have some of our better player's who can adapt, but without the abillity of our average player's to step up as quickly we will always be a couple of steps behind, and it can all be aligned back to junior development and instilling the rudiments as second nature and no more emphasized than in the "play the ball area".

PS, who is 'Blind Freddy'? 

Steve McNamara is probably a really nice bloke and no idiot either, but it would seem his teams aren`t going into the trenches for him. Roy Masters had a dig at Wayne Bennett recently by saying he doesn`t even coach anymore just turns up and sprinkles a bit of magic dust around and his player go out there ready to die for him. Of course he was exaggerating but he makes the point.

Obviously having brains and expressing Rugby League knowledge isn`t the issue for a lot of coaches, that`s why they get the job, but getting the team totally onside must be very difficult. I can only imagine how hard it would be to keep 30 young blokes on side, mete out discipline, encourage, cajole and all that man management stuff. Even dealing with the older players who have seen it all before.

In that thread on Barrie MacDermott it was really interesting hearing him talk about being coached by Graham Murray. He said Murray loved being around and spending time with the players but could also give them a bollocking as well. It was kind of moving the way he spoke about Murray.

Blind Freddy was a character I`ve been hearing about from my father since I was knee high to a grass hopper. " Blind Freddy would know this" or " Blind Freddy would have seen that" and when I googled him I expected him to have English origins, but no `Blind Freddy` was an Aussie, if you get a chance google him, it`s quite amusing.

Look under` Origins of...` in wiktionary.