Rugby league players don’t receive knighthoods - do we care?

[Tides Of History]

Does it matter? As a sport we perhaps revel in the fact we have never have a knighted player

But if we want a seat at the top table with the big boys - should we try and embrace the establishment? 

Would be interested to hear your thoughts on whether we need some ambassadors with titles. I think Sir Ellery, Sir Kevin and Sir Martin would have a certain clout (and of course they also deserve to sit alongside the elite sportsmen in this country!)

Here are my thoughts published recently:

https://thecritic.co.uk/class-matters-why-rugby-league-players-dont-receive-knighthoods/ 

 

 

[Griff]

Of course it's a class issue.

There's no debate here.  Just facts.

[Damien]

I couldn't care less about the honours system and think its a joke. That said it still grates me the lack of recognition that RL gets.

[John Drake]

Advance moderating warning here:

Keep this focused on Rugby League and 'whether we need some ambassadors with titles' as per the question posed in the opening post.

If people start climbing onto their soapboxes about the merits or otherwise of the honours system in general, it'll inevitably descend into a political slanging match, and the thread will end up being punted into the political forum.

Thanks.

[The Future is League]

39 minutes ago, Tides Of History said:

Does it matter? As a sport we perhaps revel in the fact we have never have a knighted player

But if we want a seat at the top table with the big boys - should we try and embrace the establishment? 

Would be interested to hear your thoughts on whether we need some ambassadors with titles. I think Sir Ellery, Sir Kevin and Sir Martin would have a certain clout (and of course they also deserve to sit alongside the elite sportsmen in this country!)

Here are my thoughts published recently:

https://thecritic.co.uk/class-matters-why-rugby-league-players-dont-receive-knighthoods/ 

 

 

I personally would welcome any knighthoods to any former Rugby League players and my first choice would be Sir Billy Boston or even better Lord Boston of Wigan

[Man of Kent]

We do care. We’d all have loved it if ‘Sir’ Kevin Sinfield had become Sir Kevin Sinfield.

[Oxford]

Can we climb on a sopa box about party poopers?

This will all depend on how much credence you place in honours and how you percieve their relative merit and usefulness as recognition for contributions to our game.

8 minutes ago, Man of Kent said:

We do care. We’d all have loved it if ‘Sir’ Kevin Sinfield had become Sir Kevin Sinfield.

Not altogether true MoK, about the caring I mean. Though no one would argue that plenty of RL official, players and pundits don't deserve recognition.

The likelihood of it becoming a normalised expectation, which is what it should be, is remote in the extreme. To use an anology it's a bit like black people on TV moving from rarity where we notice and remark to everyday  and hardly worth pointing out. And as a sport we are still at the hens' teeth stage and almost too grateful for whatever we get.

 

[Man of Kent]

8 minutes ago, Oxford said:

Can we climb on a sopa box about party poopers?

This will all depend on how much credence you place in honours and how you percieve their relative merit and usefulness as recognition for contributions to our game.

Not altogether true MoK, about the caring I mean. Though no one would argue that plenty of RL official, players and pundits don't deserve recognition.

The likelihood of it becoming a normalised expectation, which is what it should be, is remote in the extreme. To use an anology it's a bit like black people on TV moving from rarity where we notice and remark to everyday  and hardly worth pointing out. And as a sport we are still at the hens' teeth stage and almost too grateful for whatever we get.

 

Sprechen Sie Deutsch?

[Angelic Cynic]

An excellently written piece.Thank you.

Something similar was also written,many moons ago.

The important word appears in the 9th paragraph - NOMINATION.

It should be the responsibility of the governing body to be cognizant of such worthy individuals - not only those who can play at the very highest level - but other devotees to the sport;perhaps a volunteer.Then ensure that a nomination is made and a record of the nomination retained.

It may change,of course,in this World Cup year.

[The Future is League]

3 minutes ago, Angelic Cynic said:

An excellently written piece.Thank you.

Something similar was also written,many moons ago.

The important word appears in the 9th paragraph - NOMINATION.

It should be the responsibility of the governing body to be cognizant of such worthy individuals - not only those who can play at the very highest level - but other devotees to the sport;perhaps a volunteer.Then ensure that a nomination is made and a record of the nomination retained.

It may change,of course,in this World Cup year.

Rugby League has always sold itself short in this country when it comes to marketing the game to it's fans and marketing it's players  when it comes to nominations and product marketing.

I struggle at times with RFL's marketing at all levels of the game and with social media nowadays it's become even easier to market the game and still they come up short.

[17 stone giant]

Ray French would be my choice.

[Dunbar]

Sir Ellery Hanley would be my choice.

As well as being arguably the best British player in living memory and a winner of numerous individual awards (3 * Man of Steel, Golden Boot at the best player in the world) he was also the first black coach of a major national side in the UK, an achievement that transcends the individual sport.

If we see these awards as representing great individual achievement and breaking cultural barriers then he is the clear and obvious choice.

[Oxford]

53 minutes ago, Man of Kent said:

Sprechen Sie Deutsch?

Be your age MoK! Just the once would do!

Or did you want to sing the National Anthem in Allemande?

[Chris22]

Very interesting read. In some respects, rugby union individuals gets more honours that you would expect due to class and rugby league gets less for the same reason. But there is also profile. Like it or not, rugby union has a far greater reach and profile than us which in turn leads to greater recognition.

Some of the individuals referred to in the piece though, some trailblazers such as the first black man to captain a national sporting team should be recognised regardless of class or sport.

[Oxford]

2 minutes ago, Chris22 said:

rugby union individuals gets more honours that you would expect

I don't think it's that they get more than you'd expect unless you were jaundiced about the whole enterprise.

 

4 minutes ago, Chris22 said:

rugby league gets less

I think this would be compared to almost any sport.

5 minutes ago, Chris22 said:

Some of the individuals referred to in the piece though, some trailblazers such as the first black man to captain a national sporting team should be recognised regardless of class or sport.

This is the most important thing in some ways, isn't it? Do they give recognition when you're brown bread?

[Wire quin]

UK RL globally has achieved nothing for decade, what is there to recognise?

[Damien]

1 minute ago, Wire quin said:

UK RL globally has achieved nothing for decade, what is there to recognise?

That's not the measure for other sports though. The Exeter RU captain literally got one at the age of 24 just for winning 2 of the cups available to them. That is hardly exceptional achievement, lifetime achievement or global achievement. 

[RigbyLuger]

54 minutes ago, Damien said:

That's not the measure for other sports though. The Exeter RU captain literally got one at the age of 24 just for winning 2 of the cups available to them. That is hardly exceptional achievement, lifetime achievement or global achievement. 

Or a former British tennis no. 1 who reached 48 in the world.

The point about nomination is important though. Have the clubs/RFL/Super League filled in the forms for the likes of Ellis, O'Loughlin or Graham?

[Wire quin]

1 hour ago, Damien said:

That's not the measure for other sports though. The Exeter RU captain literally got one at the age of 24 just for winning 2 of the cups available to them. That is hardly exceptional achievement, lifetime achievement or global achievement. 

A knighthood as per the post similar to Hamilton, Wiggins, Botham etc

[Wire quin]

17 minutes ago, Wire quin said:

A knighthood as per the post similar to Hamilton, Wiggins, Botham etc

Im unsure why you are confused. A knighthood is very different to an MBE. Read the headline for the post.

[TrueBull]

Class may or may not be a factor. 
Generally I look at the international game. 
 

Union players & coaches tend to get honours after having at least 50+ caps, +/- winning the World Cup, +/- winning a Lions tour . 
 

[Damien]

5 minutes ago, Wire quin said:

Im unsure why you are confused. A knighthood is very different to an MBE. Read the headline for the post.

The article talks about the honours system generally, including MBE's, OBE's et al. If you had read it you'd have known that. People on this thread have also commented on the honours system generally. If you had read the thread you'd have known that too. Your post did not mention knighthood and spoke of RL doing nothing to deserve recognition. 

[redjonn]

We often complain that RL here in the UK is small and confined to a limited geography plus we don't play many internationals which raises the conscious level of the general populace.  In addition it is a relative small pool of competition for individuals to get to the top of the sport nor are they competing against other global or many countries similar top players..   Thus why would we be surprised RL does not highly figure in honours list.

Unless you think their should be some sort of fair allocation across all sports.

Its a consequence of where we are in the UK and global sports world not because of some deep seated intentional bias. It of course helps us to keep the chip on our shoulder of the slight against us.

[Cheshire Setter]

Didn’t the Russians hack some emails a couple of years ago, and it was revealed that a lot of UK citizens are able to ‘buy’ their way into honours? Or negotiate themselves into one? Beckham?

That pretty much says what the award of one represents in modern times. Although of course it’s frustrating that RL is shunned.

Having a few ‘Sirs’ is long overdue for RL, but it probably won’t sell us as much in the public eye, as having lots of high-quality free-to-air international matches on TV.

[redjonn]

Just checking and as far as I can see with regards to knights having been involved/played Rugby Union their are x3 Knight Bachelors the rest are KNZM whom I assume are nominated by New Zealand. 

The only English one won the world cup...

Maybe if Shaun wins the world cup he will be awarded....