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Amnesia in the Sunday Times


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9 minutes ago, unapologetic pedant said:

So you were not saying "the Rhinos were Leeds` rugby team", or "the rugby they played". The offending phrases weren`t originally within quotation marks.

If that`s the case, you may consider yourself officially exonerated.

I really don't get what you're confused about mate.

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4 minutes ago, Johnoco said:

Essentially he means that people know that Leeds Rhinos are a rugby team. But beyond that they don’t know whether they play a different type of rugby to the one they might see England or the All Blacks play.

It’s sort of like.....I don’t have a clue about most dance music and couldn’t tell you the difference between deep house and dubstep. To me, it’s dance music. 

My point was whether RL fans regard Leeds Rhinos as a "Rugby" team or refer to the game they play as "Rugby".

If RL fans don`t take the trouble to make the distinction between League and Union, we can hardly be surprised if others assume there is one game called "Rugby".

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20 minutes ago, unapologetic pedant said:

My point was whether RL fans regard Leeds Rhinos as a "Rugby" team or refer to the game they play as "Rugby".

If RL fans don`t take the trouble to make the distinction between League and Union, we can hardly be surprised if others assume there is one game called "Rugby".

I do make the distinction, but the vast majority of people (therefore not dyed in the wool RL fans) won't, which is the point.

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15 minutes ago, unapologetic pedant said:

I think it was you who was the lucky recipient of that evolutionary lineout garment. The ideal gift for a "Rugby" fan.

Thanks. That's really cleared it up.

"The history of the world is the history of the triumph of the heartless over the mindless." — Sir Humphrey Appleby.

"If someone doesn't value evidence, what evidence are you going to provide to prove that they should value it? If someone doesn't value logic, what logical argument could you provide to show the importance of logic?" — Sam Harris

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28 minutes ago, Tommygilf said:

I really don't get what you're confused about mate.

I understood and heartily agreed with the substance of your post. I was questioning whether some of the terminology in it, which is customarily used by RL fans, contributes to the very confusion you were alluding to.

Was quite happy for you to regard it as poor textual analysis on my part. Hence the follow-up post.

 

8 minutes ago, Tommygilf said:

I do make the distinction, but the vast majority of people (therefore not dyed in the wool RL fans) won't, which is the point.

Dyed in the wool RL fans of my acquaintance don`t, and never have. When I was younger, I didn`t. 

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8 minutes ago, unapologetic pedant said:

I understood and heartily agreed with the substance of your post. I was questioning whether some of the terminology in it, which is customarily used by RL fans, contributes to the very confusion you were alluding to.

Was quite happy for you to regard it as poor textual analysis on my part. Hence the follow-up post.

 

Dyed in the wool RL fans of my acquaintance don`t, and never have. When I was younger, I didn`t. 

It is all about context.

When I was younger growing up in Wigan I used the phrase Rugby as it was blindingly obvious I was referring to League. As I move into other areas and now West London, I will always specifically say 'Rugby League' when referring to the sport I watch. 

Same on here... Rugby is League on this forum unless I am on the cross code section where I use the terms Rugby League and Rugby Union. 

As for my lineout t-shirt that I will never wear... Well that was a present from someone who I have explained the difference to many times but who can't be bothered with the difference.  It is like asking me to care enough to remember which Kardashian is which. 

"The history of the world is the history of the triumph of the heartless over the mindless." — Sir Humphrey Appleby.

"If someone doesn't value evidence, what evidence are you going to provide to prove that they should value it? If someone doesn't value logic, what logical argument could you provide to show the importance of logic?" — Sam Harris

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56 minutes ago, Johnoco said:

Oh I agree with that but I don’t think he was referring to RL fans, just students maybe

I`m standing by my view that any unpractised eye reading the post I initially replied to would interpret it as the writer referring to the Rhinos as Leeds` Rugby team, as well as some other students. And the writer referring to one type of Rugby in the six nations and another type played by the Rhinos, as well as some other students. If I`m being pedantic about the absence of quotation marks around some of the terms to make clear that everything is in the third person, I`m only doing what it says on my tin.

What the general issue reduces to is whether the game is "Rugby", and there are two versions of it. Or whether there are two games separately called Rugby League and Rugby Union. I would argue that for RL it`s vital the latter is the dominant perception. That is, if we don`t want to continue being instinctively overlooked by the likes of the Sunday Times.

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1 hour ago, Dunbar said:

Same on here... Rugby is League on this forum unless I am on the cross code section where I use the terms Rugby League and Rugby Union. 

Well Dunbar living in the south I simply correct people who don't use the term correctly rugby means RL what they're refering to is a sport called what time does the rugby start?

Such arguments as those above about confusion of terms are almost completely irrelevant to the matter in hand though,

The only reason such confusion exists is because of RL disappearance or removal from main stream legacy media outlets.

This will continue to be a problem for a sport trying to compete in the market place. It is an issue we used to be very clear on and united against, Now I think we have more people on our side of this fence that maintain there is nothing wrong with this situation. Added to people who are terrified of rocking the boat we're up faecal creek without the obvious.

 

2 warning points:kolobok_dirol:  Non-Political

 

 

 

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1 minute ago, Oxford said:

Well Dunbar living in the south I simply correct people who don't use the term correctly rugby means RL what they're refering to is a sport called what time does the rugby start?

I am not surprised at all.  Personally, I take a rather less confrontational approach. And recognise that in the grand scheme of things, this is hardly relevant at all.

"The history of the world is the history of the triumph of the heartless over the mindless." — Sir Humphrey Appleby.

"If someone doesn't value evidence, what evidence are you going to provide to prove that they should value it? If someone doesn't value logic, what logical argument could you provide to show the importance of logic?" — Sam Harris

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4 minutes ago, Dunbar said:

I take a rather less confrontational approach.

I found it's a bit like talking about every topic from brexit to cake preferences that the softly softly approach has never caught a monkey and making it lively stops eyes glazing over. And otherwise they offer me tickets they don't want, to kick and clap matches, I don't like.

2 warning points:kolobok_dirol:  Non-Political

 

 

 

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1 minute ago, unapologetic pedant said:

I don`t think Rugby should ever be League, or League should ever be Rugby. Not here, not anywhere. It implies that the game on the field is called "Rugby", and that "League" is merely a reference to off-field matters. In the past, that would have been professionalism.

Too late UP  TGG is Rugby everything else is a perversion James Giltinan said so in the First Kangaroos!

2 warning points:kolobok_dirol:  Non-Political

 

 

 

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9 minutes ago, Johnoco said:

I personally find that punching anyone in the face who declares they like Rugby Union, then stomping on their goolies until they cry ‘no more’ usually wins people round. Oh yes, leave that reasonable approach to the yawnion lot. 

I was intending to go back to your post about dance music, and kindly offer to bore you to death on the subtle nuances between all the different genres and sub-genres. I`ve largely lost touch now, but it used to be full-on Judean People`s Front stuff.

In light of the above outburst, I think I`ll leave it. Are these impulses fuelled by Scrumpy and Witches Brew?

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2 minutes ago, Johnoco said:

Relax, I was only joking. I go no further than a punch in the face.

As for the music genres, most of them end up splitting in a hundred different sub genres. There was punk, then hardcore, then UK82, then thrash, then ukhc, punk-metal crossover, speedcore..then grindcore, blastbeat, d-beat, you get the picture. 

You`ve omitted your New Romantic phase.

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37 minutes ago, unapologetic pedant said:

You`ve omitted your New Romantic phase.

"What do we get for our trouble and pain.

Whalley Range ... Whalley Range!"

2 warning points:kolobok_dirol:  Non-Political

 

 

 

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On 07/01/2021 at 18:06, Wirral Warrior said:

 

Thanks to your provision of the e mail , I also got a prompt reply.

"Apologies for the oversight which you rightly say should not have happened. Hope it didn't detract too much from your enjoyment of the paper.

Regards,

Nick Greenslade,

deputy editor, Sunday Times Sport"

 

Proves it is always worth all of us highlighting poor media coverage as requested on the original post

Spot on. Hope everyone on here has done so too

 

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8 hours ago, Johnoco said:

I personally find that punching anyone in the face who declares they like Rugby Union, then stomping on their goolies until they cry ‘no more’ usually wins people round. Oh yes, leave that reasonable approach to the yawnion lot. 

The worst punishment for such people is surely watching rah rah itself...

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On 07/01/2021 at 18:06, Wirral Warrior said:

 

Thanks to your provision of the e mail , I also got a prompt reply.

"Apologies for the oversight which you rightly say should not have happened. Hope it didn't detract too much from your enjoyment of the paper.

Regards,

Nick Greenslade,

deputy editor, Sunday Times Sport"

 

Proves it is always worth all of us highlighting poor media coverage as requested on the original post

With the best will in the world, this response (to you) is of no value to us/the game, whatsoever and Mr Greenslade is well aware of that.

Its also further evidence that the omission was a deliberate act, designed to keep the tournament out of the public consciousness.

If the tw....t was a man of integrity, he would have printed a half page apology in the blo ody paper! 

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On 08/01/2021 at 14:27, unapologetic pedant said:

I don`t think Rugby should ever be League, or League should ever be Rugby. Not here, not anywhere. It implies that the game on the field is called "Rugby", and that "League" is merely a reference to off-field matters. In the past, that would have been professionalism.

If i ever meet anyone who doesn't know about Rugby League, or who does know it exists but doesn't know the difference, I always explain it like this.

'' You know when they make whisky, they take a load of malted barley and mash it up, then mix it with warm water, then they heat it to dry it and mash it up and mix it (again with warm  water) and stir it for hours. Then they draw off the sugar rich wort  leaving the husks and useless mash (called draff) behind. It's now when they add the yeast and allow the wash to ferment. After fermentation the wash is distilled at least twice before heating and condensing (twice) and carefully drawing off only the best spirit to produce the finished product.?''

Well Rugby League (after a hundred years of refinement) is like the purest, finest Malt Whisky and Ra Ra is the much greater volume of the bitter residue of husks, mash and rancid liquor (draff) left behind.

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Just to complete the story, this week's sports section of The Sunday Times begins with a letter from someone in York, criticising the RLWC omission last week, and, unusually, there is a brief but unequivocal apology from the sports editorial team immediately underneath it.

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16 hours ago, Wiltshire Warrior Dragon said:

Just to complete the story, this week's sports section of The Sunday Times begins with a letter from someone in York, criticising the RLWC omission last week, and, unusually, there is a brief but unequivocal apology from the sports editorial team immediately underneath it.

That might well be me. 

Though I guess other York residents could have been similarly outraged. 🙂

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