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RLWC a different format?


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With the gap growing between the traditional nations and then the best of the rest. To give players a chance of international honours at a world cupcould we have more nations competing. In theory it might limit the likes of Scotland as someone as Scottish as Danny Brough maybe selected for England Knights but in turn that might convince them to be more creative in their plan. Just a thought . E.g.

England and England Knights 

Australia (Kangaroos) and Australia Aboriginal

New Zealand (Kiwis) and New Zealand Maori 

There maybe a crossover where you have a player of indigenous heritage that qualifies for the first team which you could have the player choosing who to play for. When you look at the current groups for 2021 World Cup you think England vs Samoa should be a comfortable win for England but if it was England Knights it could be an interesting story. 

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I think they had a Maori team in 2000 (which went well...)

Tbh I think you should leave World Cups to nations (or at least National Governing body administered teams).

We essentially have what you describe in effect with players of Celtic or Pacific heritage playing for those nations rather than England/Oz/New Zealand anyway.

Edited by Tommygilf
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40 minutes ago, HarrogateKnights said:

When you look at the current groups for 2021 World Cup you think England vs Samoa should be a comfortable win for England but if it was England Knights it could be an interesting story. 

No way is the Samoa game a comfortable win for England. I will be happy with a win in this game in any shape or form.

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35 minutes ago, Tommygilf said:

I think they had a Maori team in 2000 (which went well)

Tbh I think you should leave World Cups to nations (or at least National Governing body administered teams).

We essentially have what you describe in effect with players of Celtic or Pacific heritage playing for those nations rather than England/Oz/New Zealand anyway.

They did. It really didn't help that disaster of a tournament in any way.

I've no issue with there being Maori (and other indigenous nations and groups) representative teams but with the sole exception of the Iroquois nation in lacrosse they have no place at World Cups. 

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3 minutes ago, gingerjon said:

They did. It really didn't help that disaster of a tournament in any way.

I've no issue with there being Maori (and other indigenous nations and groups) representative teams but with the sole exception of the Iroquois nation in lacrosse they have no place at World Cups. 

Absolutely 

In a slightly unintended consequence it also opens a can of worms for the likes of Catalonia, California and other separatist movements that consider themselves as independent (or at least some of the people involved in running RL there do) despite coming under the jurisdiction of a national governing body.

That's not to say I don't support those movements etc but I also think RL might be best off following political direction in this area rather than leading it.

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The idea that nations like Serbia, who have long standing domestic competitions, be able to field a national team against other similar nations in a secondary tournament holds appeal. What a great reward for those type nations. Could really help promote the game in those countries as well.

However until our own WC can generate enough profits to be able to afford such things we may have to wait.

As is, with the rise of the extra 3 or 4 southern hemisphere nations I think the tournament has a great deal of appeal and marketability.

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I can't remember the sport ever being in a better shape competitively at international level than it is now.  As well a few potential upsets at the group stage, I think we will see massively competitive games at the quarter final and semi final stages of the '21 tournament... a massive improvement from when the tournament only really started at the semi stage for the big 3.

It is getting better and better... let's not meddle.

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15 minutes ago, The Rocket said:

The idea that nations like Serbia, who have long standing domestic competitions, be able to field a national team against other similar nations in a secondary tournament holds appeal. What a great reward for those type nations. Could really help promote the game in those countries as well.

However until our own WC can generate enough profits to be able to afford such things we may have to wait.

As is, with the rise of the extra 3 or 4 southern hemisphere nations I think the tournament has a great deal of appeal and marketability.

there did used to be the emerging nations world cup (or some name like that) which i thought was good, ran alongside it i think..

You could do that and have double headers at every group game of the main draw... final to be played just before the last group game (so the main world cup has the knock out stage to itself). 

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I think we also underestimate the pull of internationals.

A more knowledgeable crowd in Leigh are not too interested in a blow out win for England over France.

A less knowledgeable crowd, say in Sheffield, watching England hammer Greece would enjoy it more.

The public love to see England succeed in any sport, even in a blow out.

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24 minutes ago, Chris22 said:

I think we also underestimate the pull of internationals.

A more knowledgeable crowd in Leigh are not too interested in a blow out win for England over France.

A less knowledgeable crowd, say in Sheffield, watching England hammer Greece would enjoy it more.

The public love to see England succeed in any sport, even in a blow out.

I have already bought tickets for a group of us, and kids, most of whom wouldnt know a rugby ball until it hit them in the face (I will be testing this theory if one doesnt pay me for the tickets!) and they all want to go because it is the world cup, simple as that.. didnt matter who england played they were going. 

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This year, we've got a 16 team World Cup, giving the casual sports fan something simple to understand. Four groups, top two go through to QFs. That's great and should be the format - exclusively with 'real' nations* - for the foreseeable future.

Yes there will be blowouts, but other major world cups** don't fiddle around with things in order to avoid them and nor should RL.

 

*I want to be careful here. England, for example, isn't a nation state after all. But you know what I mean.

**Cricket just got rid of the 'minor' nations for the 2019 edition. A retrograde step in my view.

Edited by Dr Tim Whatley
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2 hours ago, RP London said:

there did used to be the emerging nations world cup (or some name like that) which i thought was good, ran alongside it i think..

You could do that and have double headers at every group game of the main draw... final to be played just before the last group game (so the main world cup has the knock out stage to itself). 

Still going on, or rather restarted (outside of World Cups). https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2018_Emerging_Nations_World_Championship

And a good watch it is too for anyone that didn't catch it live: https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLLbndrFn51_mAiYRbguYmah2u6xkcbPLf

Too many Australians in each team, and would be great to see this hosted in say NZ or France... or even Serbia going forward.

Have to say I don't like the implications of this thread. Indigenous teams and the Actual Australians, NZs etc. Aside from the dodgy implications, as someone said we tried this before and was d0g5*1+. We should never repeat.

 

 

 

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This would be a terrible idea that would throw away what little credibility our international game has. There are blowout scores in RU, cricket and even football World cups. We've done enough damage to our sport, making strange choices to pander to the sports insecurities already.

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7 hours ago, HarrogateKnights said:

With the gap growing between the traditional nations and then the best of the rest.  

Really? 

RL has largely been dominated by three teams at international level. You now have Tonga and Fiji pushing those teams... Samoa if they got a full strength team on the field would not be far behind either. 

The game is more competitive international than ever before. 

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4 hours ago, thebrewxi said:

Too many Australians in each team, and would be great to see this hosted in say NZ or France... or even Serbia going forward.

I don`t mind the " too many Australians" as long as it is not all of them, 7 - 8 locals or more would be ok, competitiveness is essential, even more locals in the squad far better, often these international teams attract a pretty decent coaching squad as well and that is invaluable for any emerging players and coaching staff to have the opportunity to be exposed to this.

Back to the Aussies in the team, I think you would find that a lot of these blokes would be just as passionate about playing for the country of their forebears as any Pacific Islander, Aussie, Pom or otherwise, because that`s what the latter are doing as well when they represent their home nation, representing the home of their forebears. That can be powerful stuff, especially from smaller nations, who are no doubt proud of their own history as well, and probably feel over looked on the world stage.

This is their chance to stand tall and say, " Yes I am from Lebanon and I am proud of my country of my ancestors". etc.

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10 hours ago, thebrewxi said:

Still going on, or rather restarted (outside of World Cups). https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2018_Emerging_Nations_World_Championship

And a good watch it is too for anyone that didn't catch it live: https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLLbndrFn51_mAiYRbguYmah2u6xkcbPLf

The first emerging nations WC ran alongside the centenary WC in 1995. Cook Islands beat Ireland in the final at Gigg Lane. There were over four thousand there in pouring rain. We were due a deluge, the tournaments that year had enjoyed unseasonably good weather.

The 2018 tournament was held in Western Sydney. The final, in which Malta beat Niue, was a pretty good game turning a wee bit feisty towards the end. The games were covered by Bar TV, but typically the NRL media and fans paid no attention to the whole tournament.

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9 hours ago, The Rocket said:

I don`t mind the " too many Australians" as long as it is not all of them, 7 - 8 locals or more would be ok, competitiveness is essential, even more locals in the squad far better, often these international teams attract a pretty decent coaching squad as well and that is invaluable for any emerging players and coaching staff to have the opportunity to be exposed to this.

Back to the Aussies in the team, I think you would find that a lot of these blokes would be just as passionate about playing for the country of their forebears as any Pacific Islander, Aussie, Pom or otherwise, because that`s what the latter are doing as well when they represent their home nation, representing the home of their forebears. That can be powerful stuff, especially from smaller nations, who are no doubt proud of their own history as well, and probably feel over looked on the world stage.

This is their chance to stand tall and say, " Yes I am from Lebanon and I am proud of my country of my ancestors". etc.

I think you've put a very glamorous spin on that. The reality for 99% of them is, representing their heritage nation is their Plan B, when not chosen by Aus, NZ, England. Notable exception is Taumalolo and a couple of others.

Hell, Radradra, born and raised Fijian, who speaks broken English, even chose Australia over Fiji. 

 

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44 minutes ago, langpark said:

I think you've put a very glamorous spin on that. The reality for 99% of them is, representing their heritage nation is their Plan B, when not chosen by Aus, NZ, England. Notable exception is Taumalolo and a couple of others.

Hell, Radradra, born and raised Fijian, who speaks broken English, even chose Australia over Fiji. 

 

Interestingly he has chosen to play for Fiji again now. I assume he would qualify for France, and soon England, and would certainly walk into the latter's onion team. Does that say anything about international League?

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