Toulouse Olympique Update

[Davo5]

1 minute ago, Hela Wigmen said:

Are you on about their old ground? They share with Toulouse RU and the capacity there, according to Wikipedia at least, is 19,500. 

I was talking about Oldham & Sheffield in reply to his comparison with Toulouse and improved  7000 crowds.

[Dave T]

7 hours ago, Eddie said:

Why are the chances of getting to 7k good? They get around 1k home fans at the moment. Would you say Oldham or Sheffield Eagles chances of getting 7k were good if they went up and started the season well too? The jump from what they get now to 7k is enormous. 

This discussion has been had many times on here, and you just ignore what people say on it and keep saying they will get low crowds. So let me challenge you on what your evidence is that they will only get 3k?

Because other people offer up the closest comparison you will get (Catalans) averaging 8k+, in the last 25 years Toulouse has held 7 or so 'event' matches averaging 9.2k with one of the biggest being for a Catalans game there. Toulouse have topped 3k a few times in the UK lower divisions also.

Keep comparing to the likes of Oldham, Salford and Sheffield is a nonsense - what Toulouse in SL does is bring something brand new for sports fans in the region who like top quality sport. Toulouse RL has a history in the lower standard French leagues or the lower tiers of the UK pyramid, and get crowds accordingly. Top flight RL in France clearly has a market, there is no reason to suggest Toulouse would struggle on 3k crowds. 

Who knows whether it would be 7k, or even higher, but I think it would be very hard to make a credible case that they would only average 3k.

[Manfred Mann]

15 hours ago, ATLANTISMAN said:

 

SPOT ON MM 7/8000 certainly I think is realistic.

BTW hope you are keeping well havant seen you for years since we had a beer at the London Broncos must have been around 2004/5:)

P 

PM me who you are. I assume that you are not the great player and lovely man named Mark McLinden.

[The Daddy]

20 minutes ago, Dave T said:

This discussion has been had many times on here, and you just ignore what people say on it and keep saying they will get low crowds. So let me challenge you on what your evidence is that they will only get 3k?

Because other people offer up the closest comparison you will get (Catalans) averaging 8k+, in the last 25 years Toulouse has held 7 or so 'event' matches averaging 9.2k with one of the biggest being for a Catalans game there. Toulouse have topped 3k a few times in the UK lower divisions also.

Keep comparing to the likes of Oldham, Salford and Sheffield is a nonsense - what Toulouse in SL does is bring something brand new for sports fans in the region who like top quality sport. Toulouse RL has a history in the lower standard French leagues or the lower tiers of the UK pyramid, and get crowds accordingly. Top flight RL in France clearly has a market, there is no reason to suggest Toulouse would struggle on 3k crowds. 

Who knows whether it would be 7k, or even higher, but I think it would be very hard to make a credible case that they would only average 3k.

On point, assuming that they will just get low crowds with no real tangible justification as to why is ridiculous. It's even more ridiculous to compare them to the likes of Sheffield and other Championship clubs. 

The South of France has a lot of latent support that will come out once they're in SL just as they did when Catalan Dragons played Hull KR, think they got 13,000 that day. In SL they will get alot of support not just from Toulouse itself but also from the Tarn region and Lot-et-Garonne. TO played Leigh at Albi and got 6000 crowd, so they'll get support from there and we haven't even spoken about how a game against Catalan will drive the average attendance up. 

Some people on here really have no scale of the size of the operation and the commercial partnerships TO already have in place. 

[JohnM]

13 hours ago, JohnM said:

Go for it. After all, what have we got Toulouse? 

in the end, It's a question of Monet.

[Eddie]

41 minutes ago, Dave T said:

This discussion has been had many times on here, and you just ignore what people say on it and keep saying they will get low crowds. So let me challenge you on what your evidence is that they will only get 3k?

Because other people offer up the closest comparison you will get (Catalans) averaging 8k+, in the last 25 years Toulouse has held 7 or so 'event' matches averaging 9.2k with one of the biggest being for a Catalans game there. Toulouse have topped 3k a few times in the UK lower divisions also.

Keep comparing to the likes of Oldham, Salford and Sheffield is a nonsense - what Toulouse in SL does is bring something brand new for sports fans in the region who like top quality sport. Toulouse RL has a history in the lower standard French leagues or the lower tiers of the UK pyramid, and get crowds accordingly. Top flight RL in France clearly has a market, there is no reason to suggest Toulouse would struggle on 3k crowds. 

Who knows whether it would be 7k, or even higher, but I think it would be very hard to make a credible case that they would only average 3k.

All good points, and we can agree to differ, but again all your points are just speculation the same as mine. I don’t see how anyone can say TO’s crowds will be X because Catalans are, when you would never do that with English clubs. Perpignan is more of a rugby town (ie no football to compete with) than Toulouse is for a start. I really wish TO well and would love to see them in SL bringing on lots of new support, I’ll just believe it when I see it. 

[The Daddy]

11 minutes ago, Eddie said:

All good points, and we can agree to differ, but again all your points are just speculation the same as mine. I don’t see how anyone can say TO’s crowds will be X because Catalans are, when you would never do that with English clubs. Perpignan is more of a rugby town (ie no football to compete with) than Toulouse is for a start. I really wish TO well and would love to see them in SL bringing on lots of new support, I’ll just believe it when I see it. 

Toulouse will draw on support from areas that are Rugby towns like Tarn and The Lot.

Toulouse itself is also a big rugby city so not sure what your going on about 

[Harry Stottle]

14 hours ago, Damien said:

Its no Eddie Stobart's is it? 

If M. Sarrazin is doing anywhere near Stobarts '19 turnover of £857,100,000 he will be a very rich man indeed.

[Leyther_Matt]

Just now, The Daddy said:

Toulouse will draw on support from areas that are Rugby town like Tarn and The Lot.

Toulouse itself is also a big rugby city so not sure what your going on about 

Based on my half dozen visits to Toulouse, I'd say it's very much a rugby (union) city. Stade stuff is EVERYWHERE and the football team barely gets a look in.

Does anyone know if the proposed expansion of Stade Ernest-Wallon ever happened?

[Damien]

9 minutes ago, Eddie said:

All good points, and we can agree to differ, but again all your points are just speculation the same as mine. I don’t see how anyone can say TO’s crowds will be X because Catalans are, when you would never do that with English clubs. Perpignan is more of a rugby town (ie no football to compete with) than Toulouse is for a start. I really wish TO well and would love to see them in SL bringing on lots of new support, I’ll just believe it when I see it. 

There aren't any really comparable English clubs though are there? I cant think of any clubs in the lower tiers that are playing in a big city, have huge corporate and council support and are playing in a great 20k stadium. Added to that they have a latent Rugby League and general Rugby culture. Surely you can see that the potential upside is far more than just a run of the mill heartland town?

[The Daddy]

Just now, Leyther_Matt said:

Based on my half dozen visits to Toulouse, I'd say it's very much a rugby (union) city. Stade stuff is EVERYWHERE and the football team barely gets a look in.

Does anyone know if the proposed expansion of Stade Ernest-Wallon ever happened?

Yes, Stade Toulousain are huge but TO have a long history in the city and many union supporters keep an eye on their progress. They may never be as big as the RU club but that's not a measurement of success 

[audois]

Toulouse Olympique beat Stade toulousain in a rugby union match in the 1940's when the  league code was banished (Mike Rylance book 'The Struggle and the Daring')

[Dave T]

47 minutes ago, Eddie said:

All good points, and we can agree to differ, but again all your points are just speculation the same as mine. I don’t see how anyone can say TO’s crowds will be X because Catalans are, when you would never do that with English clubs. Perpignan is more of a rugby town (ie no football to compete with) than Toulouse is for a start. I really wish TO well and would love to see them in SL bringing on lots of new support, I’ll just believe it when I see it. 

So again, you did just ignore the actual evidence provided of big crowds in Toulouse.

And if you were starting up a new club in England you absolutely would start to look for comparable examples - those examples would probably be Gateshead, London and Crusaders, so not exactly compelling. If you have evidence that something works, then it is entirely fair to use that as the basis of your forecast.

[Eddie]

1 hour ago, Damien said:

There aren't any really comparable English clubs though are there? I cant think of any clubs in the lower tiers that are playing in a big city, have huge corporate and council support and are playing in a great 20k stadium. Added to that they have a latent Rugby League and general Rugby culture. Surely you can see that the potential upside is far more than just a run of the mill heartland town?

I can see the difference yes, though in that case why are their crowds so small now? Are there really thousands who have no interest now but will flock to watch them play Wakey or Cas? 

[Eddie]

57 minutes ago, Dave T said:

So again, you did just ignore the actual evidence provided of big crowds in Toulouse.

And if you were starting up a new club in England you absolutely would start to look for comparable examples - those examples would probably be Gateshead, London and Crusaders, so not exactly compelling. If you have evidence that something works, then it is entirely fair to use that as the basis of your forecast.

The odd big crowd for a special occasion is no guide to average attendances. Much like a lower league getting 10,000 in because they draw Man  Utd at home in the cup doesn’t mean all those people will go back to watch them play Shrewsbury the following week. You need to look at long term averages, and Toulouse’s are currently poor. I hope they grow though, would be great to have two French clubs in SL. 

[Eddie]

1 hour ago, Leyther_Matt said:

Based on my half dozen visits to Toulouse, I'd say it's very much a rugby (union) city. Stade stuff is EVERYWHERE and the football team barely gets a look in.

Does anyone know if the proposed expansion of Stade Ernest-Wallon ever happened?

Toulouse football team average around 16-17k, the rugby team 18k - there’s very little in it. 

[Lowdesert]

Should TO get into SL,  Derbies v Catalans have potential to be big (RL) crowds.  

Some big employers in the city and a push to encourage sponsorship/attendance by them, together with schools and the locality would guarantee bumper attendance imo.

 

[Lowdesert]

5 minutes ago, Eddie said:

The odd big crowd for a special occasion is no guide to average attendances. Much like a lower league getting 10,000 in because they draw Man  Utd at home in the cup doesn’t mean all those people will go back to watch them play Shrewsbury the following week. You need to look at long term averages, and Toulouse’s are currently poor. I hope they grow though, would be great to have two French clubs in SL. 

As I’ve said in the previous post Eddie, the key is TO’s inclusion in SL and the Derbies.  These wouldn’t be a one-off (ala your Man U example).  I think we could also see regular pre season friendlies between the two sides.

[Eddie]

16 minutes ago, Lowdesert said:

As I’ve said in the previous post Eddie, the key is TO’s inclusion in SL and the Derbies.  These wouldn’t be a one-off (ala your Man U example).  I think we could also see regular pre season friendlies between the two sides.

Well let’s see, I hope you’re all right. 

[Damien]

24 minutes ago, Eddie said:

I can see the difference yes, though in that case why are their crowds so small now? Are there really thousands who have no interest now but will flock to watch them play Wakey or Cas? 

2nd tier sport doesn't appeal to many and is a hard sell.

 

[Leyther_Matt]

1 hour ago, Eddie said:

Toulouse football team average around 16-17k, the rugby team 18k - there’s very little in it. 

That's as much to do with the limited capacity at the RU ground more than anything else, hence my question earlier in the thread about the progress of the proposed stadium expansion.

[Dave T]

1 hour ago, Eddie said:

The odd big crowd for a special occasion is no guide to average attendances. Much like a lower league getting 10,000 in because they draw Man  Utd at home in the cup doesn’t mean all those people will go back to watch them play Shrewsbury the following week. You need to look at long term averages, and Toulouse’s are currently poor. I hope they grow though, would be great to have two French clubs in SL. 

It most certainly is an indication of interest in Rugby League in the area though. And often these have been games where their national team or on for a hiding. 

You also ignored the fact that they have already topped 3k on occasion, and over 5k once, and 6k once. In the lower divisions.

All of these are far greater indicators of potential than saying they have low crowds now so they will have low crowds in a more attractive comp.

[sweaty craiq]

5 hours ago, The Daddy said:

TO played Leigh at Albi and got 6000  

As an attendee that day Leigh’s support was 3:1 more than TO, most fans had come for the kids celebration of RL and resided in Albi

[Damien]

1 hour ago, sweaty craiq said:

As an attendee that day Leigh’s support was 3:1 more than TO, most fans had come for the kids celebration of RL and resided in Albi

So Leigh had 4,500 thousand fans there? That's impressive.

Hang on you are the person that also said 3.3 million lived within 10km of Leigh so forgive me if I don't believe this.

[audois]

This week the TO Elite 1 side have joined forces with the Stade Touloussain group on the training pitch at Ernest Wallon. Seb Raguin as coach of the Olympique reserve side working along with ST boss of formation Michel Marfaing. Quite extraordinary to see this happening at another level.