Toronto Wolfpack revival begins as officials line up return this year

[Dave T]

49 minutes ago, Tommygilf said:

To some extent yes, but Toronto (and by extension Super League and Sky Sports) worked to maximise the impact of that signing beyond any signing in RL in the Super League era. That is how they boost the profile by making it easy for media. Equally I think the point is that Warrington didn't make that signing and perhaps only Wigan or Leeds Rhinos or maybe St Helens at a push have the general mass popular recognition to carry the media attention of a signing like that. 

On your second point, absolutely nobody was left asking why it wasn't in Warrington (or Rochdale where they were UK based), which is kind of the point Super League are slowly waking up to with their delocalised branding strategy. Equally, given a non covid affected season I would have expected a big "relaunch" in Toronto too as part of their home opener, so that is a total red herring. 

Like I said, Warrington are the team I most expect to follow some of Toronto's ideas.

The coverage wasn't because of TWP IMHO, it was because of SBW. That would go to any club who signed him. Of course there needs to be the basics in place, but SL clubs have that. 

I find the point odd that only Wigan, Leeds or Saints have the recognition to carry the signing, but TWP apparently nailed it. 

I really think you are overselling some of the things that happened tbh, but we've been round this so happy to agree to disagree. 

[Manxmanc]

Any club signing SBW would have attracted massive publicity. I think most people on here would agree with that.

However, it's something of a distractor here. The story of TWP has not just been about the SBW signing. Even before that, they were attracting column inches, social media hits and appearances on Canadian TV and radio, never mind in the UK. 

[Dave T]

5 minutes ago, Manxmanc said:

Any club signing SBW would have attracted massive publicity. I think most people on here would agree with that.

However, it's something of a distractor here. The story of TWP has not just been about the SBW signing. Even before that, they were attracting column inches, social media hits and appearances on Canadian TV and radio, never mind in the UK. 

TWP deserve a lot of credit for the work they did with their local media, they got plenty coverage.

Their biggest achievement for me was building a fanbase from scratch. That isn't easy, and it's frustrating Covid came at the time when they had just reached SL and they would move into their next phase which would surely have been to move towards monetising their business model and eating into those huge costs. 

[Manxmanc]

2 minutes ago, Dave T said:

TWP deserve a lot of credit for the work they did with their local media, they got plenty coverage.

Their biggest achievement for me was building a fanbase from scratch. That isn't easy, and it's frustrating Covid came at the time when they had just reached SL and they would move into their next phase which would surely have been to move towards monetising their business model and eating into those huge costs. 

I think that pretty well nails it.

[Hello]

3 hours ago, Dave T said:

The coverage wasn't because of TWP IMHO, it was because of SBW. That would go to any club who signed him. Of course there needs to be the basics in place, but SL clubs have that. 

I find the point odd that only Wigan, Leeds or Saints have the recognition to carry the signing, but TWP apparently nailed it. 

I really think you are overselling some of the things that happened tbh, but we've been round this so happy to agree to disagree. 

Do you seriously believe that having a transatlantic team from a very large North American city having its first season in a top tier competition based primarily in England would not have got significant press attention for the sport in its own right? I can't believe that you or many others could truly believe that.

[Dave T]

13 minutes ago, Johnoco said:

No, it was a combination of a big name and a new glamorous location.  Everyday run of the mill RL clubs just aren’t going to get anyone doing a double take. 

People were interested when Widnes signed Jonathan Davies 30 years ago. 

It pains me to say it, it's the RU connection, sign a top RU player and it opens up attention from a big population. A huge name All Black even more so. 

When TWP signed other players they got standard coverage that aligned with what you would expect. 

TWP signed SBW for ezactly that coverage. 

There really is no need for existing club = bad, expansion club = good. 

[Dave T]

2 minutes ago, Hello said:

Do you seriously believe that having a transatlantic team from a very large North American city having its first season in a top tier competition based primarily in England would not have got significant press attention for the sport in its own right? I can't believe that you or many others could truly believe that.

You should ask somebody who said that. 

[Dave T]

12 minutes ago, Johnoco said:

Where did I say existing clubs were bad? I said they are run of the mill.... everyday... boring even. And most are happy being big fish in a small pond.

I aren't sure what you are arguing about though, of course TWP signed him for those reasons, it's a great thing to do. The problem is hardly anyone else does, hence the lack of awareness of RL today.

 

My point is that SBW was a huge story and generated plenty of interest because he was SBW. If we want further proof, Sydney Roosters and the NRL also had a massive boost of interest when he signed for them. 

I disagree that other clubs wouldn't have generated the coverage had they signed SBW, which is the claim. 

A boring old run of the mill NRL club did just that and the marketing bods put a value of tens of millions of dollars marketing worth. 

TWP signed the closest thing to a Rugby household name, they got the noise that goes with that. As part of an awareness strategy it was a great move. I am not criticising a thing about it. The only criticism on this discussion is about m62 clubs, with claims they couldn't do the same. 

 

[Tommygilf]

2 minutes ago, Dave T said:

My point is that SBW was a huge story and generated plenty of interest because he was SBW. If we want further proof, Sydney Roosters and the NRL also had a massive boost of interest when he signed for them. 

I disagree that other clubs wouldn't have generated the coverage had they signed SBW, which is the claim. 

A boring old run of the mill NRL club did just that and the marketing bods put a value of tens of millions of dollars marketing worth. 

TWP signed the closest thing to a Rugby household name, they got the noise that goes with that. As part of an awareness strategy it was a great move. I am not criticising a thing about it. The only criticism on this discussion is about m62 clubs, with claims they couldn't do the same. 

 

The evidence they couldn't is that they didn't, and most of their fans displayed the attitude of financial prudence etc and the horrible "sustainability" mantra our sport has been infested with.

We need clubs with the ability to draw big names in not as a last resort (ie Folau) but for positive reasons, including financial. I don't really care if they are from Toronto or Batley, but without them there will be zero impetus for the game to kick on.

[Wigan Riversider]

Hope TWP do continue and eventually prosper.

[Dave T]

9 minutes ago, Tommygilf said:

The evidence they couldn't is that they didn't, and most of their fans displayed the attitude of financial prudence etc and the horrible "sustainability" mantra our sport has been infested with.

We need clubs with the ability to draw big names in not as a last resort (ie Folau) but for positive reasons, including financial. I don't really care if they are from Toronto or Batley, but without them there will be zero impetus for the game to kick on.

It is a bizarre logic to claim that if clubs don't do something it is evidence that they can't. It ignores the choice of not doing that thing. 

Personally I think there have been some very good signings for SL over the last year or two. I'm not sure why we are ignoring that. 

[Tommygilf]

20 minutes ago, Dave T said:

It is a bizarre logic to claim that if clubs don't do something it is evidence that they can't. It ignores the choice of not doing that thing. 

Personally I think there have been some very good signings for SL over the last year or two. I'm not sure why we are ignoring that. 

Its bizarre to claim that any other Super League club would have thought about signing SBW. These are organisations that routinely pay first team players >17k a year and most have had zero interest (or more likely ability through lack of investment) in growing their attendances.

[Dave T]

1 minute ago, Tommygilf said:

Its bizarre to claim that any other Super League club would have thought about signing SBW. These are organisations that routinely pay first team players >17k a year and most have had zero interest (or more likely ability through lack of investment) in growing their attendances.

And here we go again, ripping the existing clubs to pieces. It didn't take long. I'll leave you to it Tommy. 

[Rupert Prince]

2 hours ago, Dave T said:

People were interested when Widnes signed Jonathan Davies 30 years ago. 

It pains me to say it, it's the RU connection, sign a top RU player and it opens up attention from a big population. A huge name All Black even more so. 

When TWP signed other players they got standard coverage that aligned with what you would expect. 

TWP signed SBW for ezactly that coverage. 

There really is no need for existing club = bad, expansion club = good. 

If Davies had invested his 230,000 pound signing on fee into property he would have something in the region of 2 million pounds in his back pocket now. He could sign SBW.

[Tommygilf]

3 minutes ago, Dave T said:

And here we go again, ripping the existing clubs to pieces. It didn't take long. I'll leave you to it Tommy. 

You're consistent point here has been a variation of "if my auntie had male genitals she'd be...". Well newsflash, she doesn't and the other clubs didn't, so its a silly deflection argument.

[Oxford]

This story does have all the hallmarks of a great book "The Team Who Came In From the Cold." I'm not sure if it would be a tale of Rugby League Redemption or a story of redemption for TGG.

[Rupert Prince]

8 minutes ago, Tommygilf said:

Its bizarre to claim that any other Super League club would have thought about signing SBW. These are organisations that routinely pay first team players >17k a year and most have had zero interest (or more likely ability through lack of investment) in growing their attendances.

No one would sign SBW because sadly he is past it.  The worry as an example for Wigan is that Burgess may be crocked.  Let's hope not eh? 

[Tommygilf]

1 minute ago, Rupert Prince said:

No one would sign SBW because sadly he is past it.  The worry as an example for Wigan is that Burgess may be crocked.  Let's hope not eh? 

Which is precisely the point, the accountant and the coach would say its not worth it, even if the marketing lead insisted it would be an excellent investment, which is why nobody would, because very few of our clubs very well on that front.

[Davo5]

2 minutes ago, Rupert Prince said:

No one would sign SBW because sadly he is past it.  The worry as an example for Wigan is that Burgess may be crocked.  Let's hope not eh? 

I thought being past their best was the norm for NRL players joining Superleague clubs.

Burgess was not only past his best,he was signed with a chronic hip problem.

[Damien]

4 minutes ago, Rupert Prince said:

No one would sign SBW because sadly he is past it.  The worry as an example for Wigan is that Burgess may be crocked.  Let's hope not eh? 

I think every club would have had no quarms about signing SBW and making him their highest paid player. It would however have took a much greater investment than just that, which other clubs could not afford.

[Man of Kent]

Have I got this right?

Argyle does a runner on the eve of the restart having seen the impact of Covid and Toronto’s 0-6 start. He leaves creditors in the lurch, his associate tries (but fails) to get £200,000 out of Super League, then tries to agree a deal to settle his debt and reform the club? How rugby league!

[GUBRATS]

6 minutes ago, Man of Kent said:

Have I got this right?

Argyle does a runner on the eve of the restart having seen the impact of Covid and Toronto’s 0-6 start. He leaves creditors in the lurch, his associate tries (but fails) to get £200,000 out of Super League, then tries to agree a deal to settle his debt and reform the club? How rugby league!

Supposedly , which is why I'm not commenting either way , not saying it's fake news , but until something concrete appears , I'm leaving it alone 

[Tommygilf]

5 minutes ago, Man of Kent said:

Have I got this right?

Argyle does a runner on the eve of the restart having seen the impact of Covid and Toronto’s 0-6 start. He leaves creditors in the lurch, his associate tries (but fails) to get £200,000 out of Super League, then tries to agree a deal to settle his debt and reform the club? How rugby league!

Or, Argyle had major cash flow issues relating to Covid shutting the world down. Super League do not listen to repeated requests for aid from Toronto (Hunter and McDermott whilst critical of Argyle have also highlighted this). Toronto can't complete the season without aid and so withdraw on the eve of the restart. Argyle can only commit to paying the players once he is able. LiVolsi agrees to take the club off Argyle's hands immediately on the proviso of being in Super League 2021. That is not agreed by Super League thus LiVolsi walks away (having never actually taken over) and Argyle at this point is still unable to fund the club due to the impact of Covid on his businesses.

Then, in late 2020/early 2021, Argyle's prime business interests start to come back to life (Australian mining and mineral export) in some sort of recovery as that nation largely has Covid under control. This opens the door of hope for the club to consider its options for 2021 and beyond. 

[Kayakman]

The rumours of our murder and subsequent death have been greatly exaggerated...Yes, we were back stabbed and pulled a number of cowardly blades out of our back...but we never succumbed, are alive and soon you will hear from us...we also have forgotten nothing...this ain't over!

[Damien]

I think the biggest barrier to Toronto, and for that matter Ottawa, is a lack of plan and strategy for them when it comes to Super League. Whether right or wrong what has happened to Toronto this year and their treatment by Super League and the other clubs can only put off backers. If there is no end goal, or achievable end goal, for North American clubs then that is a bigger obstacle than any other.