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Project Rebrand Continues


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10 minutes ago, Damien said:

I agree and it is also conflating different reasons and putting it down to the rebrand. There is a noticeable increase in quality in the Wigan stuff and a bigger marketing push than I can ever remember. That doesn't mean any increase is due to changing the badge.

If the Hummel stuff has been as nice as some of the Hummel stuff for Everton then I’d argue that’s a bigger factor in better sales than the badge. Especially if the quality of the old manufacturer wasn’t as good. 

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6 minutes ago, Dave T said:

But isn't this something that we criticise people for - thinking that brand is just a logo? 

It sounds like Wigan have done exactly what a business should do around a rebrand and are reaping the benefits. I accept there is an argument that more effort in the areas you highlight could have led to the increase, but the new logo and visual identity is part of that additional effort.

 

The article is specifically talking about the club crest and stating a few things that don't pass the sniff test about what happened at Wigan. The vocal minority line is complete nonsense for example and I severely doubt the figures and would like to see far more evidence than someone trying to justify his own proposed changes. The whole gist of it is ignoring plenty of other things and I'd argue that if Wigan had done exactly the same, with a better updated crest, then they'd have sold even more. 

You are quite right in saying a rebrand is more than just the crest. Changing the crest with nothing else is just the same as adding a moniker and doing nothing else and expecting it to transform the club.

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6 minutes ago, Hela Wigmen said:

If the Hummel stuff has been as nice as some of the Hummel stuff for Everton then I’d argue that’s a bigger factor in better sales than the badge. Especially if the quality of the old manufacturer wasn’t as good. 

These are the little things that do make a huge difference. Style, quality and something that looks good are what people want. Replica jerseys and the like aren't cheap investments and people want to get a product that reflects the often hefty cost. All too often clubs sell tat, and some of the manufacturers that we see RL clubs have frankly make poor gear, which people quite rightly do not buy. There is a reason that many RL fans own more NRL gear than gear from English clubs.

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26 minutes ago, Dave T said:

But isn't this something that we criticise people for - thinking that brand is just a logo? 

It sounds like Wigan have done exactly what a business should do around a rebrand and are reaping the benefits. I accept there is an argument that more effort in the areas you highlight could have led to the increase, but the new logo and visual identity is part of that additional effort.

 

Even as someone who thought the Wigan rebrand or should I say the actual crest wasn't very good, where they have done well is followed it through properly, as I say even though I personally don't like it at least they have upped their whole marketing surrounding the brand.

The uplift in sales will have myriad factors in it and I would suggest that the actual quality of the product range would be a big factor.

My club (Rhinos) seem to have gone for a strategy of quantity over quality with their team wear/training range, would be interesting to see what sales are like...

 

As for Hull KR I would say their crest is one of the ones that was OK, the whole 'brand' may need a refresh but the logo is no where near the worst in SL will be interesting to see what comes of it.

Leigh need a rebrand though, their logo and branding is terrible.

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31 minutes ago, Dave T said:

To be fair, the point in that para was around Wigan's branding being criticised but they still managed to increase sales by 30/40% -

Fair point, i didn't read it that way at first. A 30-40% increase on anything previously is quite a claim. I would honestly be amazed if that was the case. But who knows, maybe it is.

If those figures do stack up then it appears the rebrand hasn't cost them (apart from some bad feeling from a section of fans) in their first year under the new branding. Wigan fans must be a very loyal bunch.

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31 minutes ago, Damien said:

The article is specifically talking about the club crest and stating a few things that don't pass the sniff test about what happened at Wigan. The vocal minority line is complete nonsense for example and I severely doubt the figures and would like to see far more evidence than someone trying to justify his own proposed changes. The whole gist of it is ignoring plenty of other things and I'd argue that if Wigan had done exactly the same, with a better updated crest, then they'd have sold even more. 

You are quite right in saying a rebrand is more than just the crest. Changing the crest with nothing else is just the same as adding a moniker and doing nothing else and expecting it to transform the club.

The article mentions the word rebrand far more than crest. But this is one of those things where it's probably the writer falling into that trap of thinking a rebrand means a new logo and that is it. 

I think somebody has also quoted here that a new log is no good without doing anything else, so by your last post it sounds like Wigan haven't done that, they have changed their logo, and also changed their behavior and effort in certain areas - exactly what they should be doing when rebranding, that all sounds positive. And Hull KR talk about rebrand rather than just crest, so there is no reason to believe that is all they are looking at .

I'm not really too sure of what point you are making about the vocal minority thing and if they had gone for a different logo they would have sold more - that is just your personal preference. The point about the noise from some fans is when things change and much-loved logos go, it doesn't mean that because people moan about it it is the wrong thing to do. As demonstrated by Wigan getting plenty of criticism and mocking for their Costa-style logo, but it clearly not putting people off.

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9 minutes ago, EastLondonMike said:

Fair point, i didn't read it that way at first. A 30-40% increase on anything previously is quite a claim. I would honestly be amazed if that was the case. But who knows, maybe it is.

If those figures do stack up then it appears the rebrand hasn't cost them (apart from some bad feeling from a section of fans) in their first year under the new branding. Wigan fans must be a very loyal bunch.

I think there is always a nice stat floating about for this kind of thing 😆 but I think we have seen the principle of this many times before. These things can generate a bit of criticism and noise at the start and they do perfectly well. Almost as it it is intentional! 

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I did find the mentions of Sky Sports feedback odd. I suspect that isn't fully accurate. 

I could understand an agency feeding back about the overall brand and how the clubs tie in, but I'm not sure why Sky feel strongly about things like KR's logo. 

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1 hour ago, Dave T said:

 These things can generate a bit of criticism and noise at the start and they do perfectly well. Almost as it it is intentional! 

To be honest, I think clubs in RL could (and perhaps should) be prepared to take slightly more liberties with the core fan base than they perhaps do. Not to say that they should take the pee with them, but to be less fearful of causing offence amongst a customer base that is, for the most part, more than "bought in" to the brand. 

It's important to remember that these rebrands are arguably more for the appeal of new audiences and customers than they are for existing ones. They're not there to appeal to Geoff and Derek, the season-ticket holders of 40+ years - if they like it then great, but they're not cancelling their ticket because of a new badge. Equally, I think the clubs and the sport should be braver when it comes to modifying the game, or introducing new products, to appeal to new fans. 

I remember seeing how sports car enthusiasts recoiled in horror when Porsche unveiled the Cayenne SUV - and how outraged they were that a bonafide sportscar marque would sully the brand with a school-run Chelsea tractor in their showrooms. Yet today the Cayenne sells almost twice the number of Boxsters and 911s combined. 

It wouldn't kill the sport to learn something from that. The Cayenne was never a product that was intended for the traditional Porsche buyer, but for a completey different type of buyer. Everything that RL does doesn't have to be intended for Geoff and Derek, the season ticket holders of 40+ years - and it shouldn't be afraid of coming up with something that they might not want to buy. 

Edited by whatmichaelsays
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I did think,originally,that it was Elstone that pushed for the rebrands of certain clubs.

Now,if it is to be believed,it is Sky TV.

Makes me wonder why other sports aren't following suit.

If I'm shocked by Wigan increasing sales,outside of the influence of Elstone and/or Sky Halifax Panthers rebrand seems to have started quite well.

https://www.halifaxcourier.co.uk/sport/rugby-league/record-breaking-sales-new-merchandise-fans-show-their-support-halifax-panthers-3061053

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2 minutes ago, Angelic Cynic said:

I did think,originally,that it was Elstone that pushed for the rebrands of certain clubs.

Now,if it is to be believed,it is Sky TV.

Makes me wonder why other sports aren't following suit.

If I'm shocked by Wigan increasing sales,outside of the influence of Elstone and/or Sky Halifax Panthers rebrand seems to have started quite well.

https://www.halifaxcourier.co.uk/sport/rugby-league/record-breaking-sales-new-merchandise-fans-show-their-support-halifax-panthers-3061053

After Halifax's last attempt at a rebrand I expect their fans are mightily relieved with this effort and happy to embrace! 

And the story that Sky TV told SL to sort out branding is weird, and probably twisted from the truth. 

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5 minutes ago, Dave T said:

After Halifax's last attempt at a rebrand I expect their fans are mightily relieved with this effort and happy to embrace! 

And the story that Sky TV told SL to sort out branding is weird, and probably twisted from the truth. 

The Hull KR CEO said the following (which is still a bit weird);

The feedback came from Sky Sports to all clubs that we need to smarten ourselves up for broadcast and digital audiences.”

 

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7 hours ago, Eddie said:

I wonder if excluding Toronto and overlooking Toulouse in favour of Leigh is part of the SL rebrand too, if they’re trying to make the game seem more insular they couldn’t have done a better job. 

Give it a rest 

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4 minutes ago, Hela Wigmen said:

The Hull KR CEO said the following (which is still a bit weird);

The feedback came from Sky Sports to all clubs that we need to smarten ourselves up for broadcast and digital audiences.”

 

Yeah it's a bit weird, the logos and stuff were fine. Sure there's a place for rebrands as businesses decide, but it doesn't particularly make much difference to Sky which logo they flash on their screen when they mention HKR. 

Based on the whole branding piece that Elstone is driving through it is surely an SLE initiative. 

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Does the request to "smarten yourselves up" necessarily relate to rebrands, or is it a wider comment on how rugby league comes across to TV audiences? Because if it's the latter, then I think it's very much Sky's place to comment on that and have certain expectations. 

A lot of grounds don't look great on TV - they're sparse, tatty and or not particularly well dressed (and there were lots of positive comments about how good the KC looked in the Grand Final) and some are poorly lit (even Elland Road has had to upgrade its floodlights to meet strict minimums that the Premier League imposes for the benefit of TV broadcasters). "Smarten yourselves up" is a very broad request. 

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3 minutes ago, whatmichaelsays said:

Does the request to "smarten yourselves up" necessarily relate to rebrands, or is it a wider comment on how rugby league comes across to TV audiences? Because if it's the lagged, then I think it's very much Sky's place to comment on that and have certain expectations. 

A lot of grounds don't look great on TV - they're sparse, tatty and or not particularly well dressed (and there were lots of positive comments about how good the KC looked in the Grand Final) and some are poorly lit (even Elland Road has had to upgrade its floodlights to meet strict minimums that the Premier League imposes for the benefit of TV broadcasters). "Smarten yourselves up" is a very broad request. 

Yeah I'd agree with that, I still think we should be doing more with the pitch markings, whether real or digital. 

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2 hours ago, Chrispmartha said:

Even as someone who thought the Wigan rebrand or should I say the actual crest wasn't very good, where they have done well is followed it through properly, as I say even though I personally don't like it at least they have upped their whole marketing surrounding the brand.

The uplift in sales will have myriad factors in it and I would suggest that the actual quality of the product range would be a big factor.

My club (Rhinos) seem to have gone for a strategy of quantity over quality with their team wear/training range, would be interesting to see what sales are like...

 

As for Hull KR I would say their crest is one of the ones that was OK, the whole 'brand' may need a refresh but the logo is no where near the worst in SL will be interesting to see what comes of it.

Leigh need a rebrand though, their logo and branding is terrible.

No need , we won't be there long enough 😉

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34 minutes ago, Hela Wigmen said:

The Hull KR CEO said the following (which is still a bit weird);

The feedback came from Sky Sports to all clubs that we need to smarten ourselves up for broadcast and digital audiences.”

 

If only some players and staff were smartened up on their social media use for digital audiences.

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13 minutes ago, GUBRATS said:

No need , we won't be there long enough 😉

Off topic but were you and Harry in Blackpool, for the Summer Bash a couple of years ago when Leigh played Toronto?

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1 hour ago, fighting irish said:

Off topic but were you and Harry in Blackpool, for the Summer Bash a couple of years ago when Leigh played Toronto?

Yes , there are pictures out there of me in the stand with my pet sat next to me 😉

Just Google ' Leigh fans at the summer bash ' and click on the picture , you can just see me , but ' Rex ' is in plain view 😂

Just realised that was 2019 against Widnes , but yes I attended the 2018 one against Toronto , had a chat with a Toronto fan who used to come on here upstairs in the ' Manchester ' 

Edited by GUBRATS
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I noticed last year that Super League's official channels started referring to clubs as "Warriors" "Rhinos" "Giants" etc. and seemed to avoid using the town or city names of the clubs at all.

Whilst I understand why they do it, our clubs are at the hearts of our communities and the fact that they are in northern towns are not something to hide in my view.

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5 hours ago, EastLondonMike said:

Fair point, i didn't read it that way at first. A 30-40% increase on anything previously is quite a claim. I would honestly be amazed if that was the case. But who knows, maybe it is.

If those figures do stack up then it appears the rebrand hasn't cost them (apart from some bad feeling from a section of fans) in their first year under the new branding. Wigan fans must be a very loyal bunch.

I've got gloves and a hat, and I live 150 miles away.  Oh and a face mask, obviously. I'm getting a bit too old for replica jerseys.

So something is working. 

(Wigans new logo was long over due)

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11 hours ago, Chris22 said:

I noticed last year that Super League's official channels started referring to clubs as "Warriors" "Rhinos" "Giants" etc. and seemed to avoid using the town or city names of the clubs at all.

Whilst I understand why they do it, our clubs are at the hearts of our communities and the fact that they are in northern towns are not something to hide in my view.

There was quite a good thread on this a few months ago.

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Sky are like a spoilt kid who wants a new toy every other weekend.

They only looked at Rugby League in the first place because they couldn't find anything to fill their summertime Thursday & Friday night slots. Commonly known as the Graveyard Shifts.

Now their resident Morning Meeting wage stealers have had a brainstorming session with the flip chart and come up with more rebranding nonsense.

Have they got nothing else to do before returning to their e-mails & tweets?

Instead of torpedoing respected club badges why not ditch the stupid nicknames they insisted we had to implement. The circus titles other sports secretly snigger at such as Rhinos, Wildcats, Blue Sox come Panthers. 

Goodness me our game sold most of its heritage down the canal for these two bob desk jockeys, now they want even more.

The elephant in the room is they never notice how pants their own matchday productions are.

Yeah, Phil Clarke dressed as an extra from an old Miami Vice repeat is really 'digital' 🤪

Only a matter of time before they kick us out the back door for their rampant obsession with Basketball and American Football anyway.

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