Where do we think Rugby League will be in 5 years time?

[sweaty craiq]

Where the money is - Beaumont and Koukash will be at Leigh though

[Hela Wigmen]

49 minutes ago, GUBRATS said:

It was me that brought it up in response to the criticism of a possible exiles game , as essentially that is what it is , and of course the use of Netball as a forward thinking sport , they do it = good , we do it = bad 

Do you have any idea whether it’s deemed a good idea in Netball, then? 

[The Rocket]

54 minutes ago, Bedfordshire Bronco said:

I agree that Union will look very different in 5 years

There has been talk about banning any form of tackling above waist. I think it will happen in both codes

Not sure how that would help . Two of the three concussions in SOO1 were Tedesco sliding into Papaali`s knee and Cordner hitting his head on someone`s hip when making a low tackle.

If all tackles are below the waist we might just see more head clashes as tacklers go in.

If the goal is to eliminate all concussions I think they are going to have to find a different way. Professional players may have to sign waivers.

[Rupert Prince]

A lot of desperate sad nonsense talked... starting with page 1.

The game needs to consolidate.  Expansion if it were to come would need a huge dose of investment, not just money, but will power on behalf of anyone who wants to be part of the game.  Really... where is that going to come from? Not from wishful thinking.

People talk about Wales, should it be Glasgow or Edinburgh.  Toronto Ottawa New York, Toulouse...    Where please do the players come from?  Well?  Do they come perfectly formed with all the top edged trimmings ?

In five years if we are lucky we will have maintained the current cut of the outgoing tv deal that was equivalent to SuperLeague.  There will be 12 teams.  We will have invested private equity money wisely.  The SL will have a coherent modern image.  The rest of the part time game will have gone amateur or 'open'.  If we are lucky that part of the game will have a coherent stable organisation.

If SL remains popular and valuable for TV companies then after 5 years it might open up to the best available locations...  assuming that it's investment has been wise.

(and when I suggest above that most of RL will be amateur, that does not mean that it should not get investment from SL.  The point of SL investment is that it needs to be about investing in creating players.  Creating players from schools and amateur clubs)

So ultimately 5 years is not enough, it ought to be recognisable though that we are just starting on the right path.  If we have invested wisely we will create star players and below them, great ones and more of them.  Then we might add to the 12 teams (whoever they have been determined to be).

[GUBRATS]

56 minutes ago, Harry Stottle said:

Perfectly put Dave, the leniency of the heritage ruling in all sports has meant that those countries who could not even contemplate to compete in competitions have been presented with a way to do so and Rugby League is most probably one of the sports that has benefitted more than most, without it this years tournament would simply be a 5 nations competition.

And Harry , how far will the heretige rules be stretched , in 2 more generations how many actual Tongans,Samoans,Fijians will there be who can claim it ?

[GUBRATS]

26 minutes ago, Hela Wigmen said:

Do you have any idea whether it’s deemed a good idea in Netball, then? 

Read Ginger John's post above for your answer 

[Dave T]

1 hour ago, The Rocket said:

It may have been Glasgow, whatever, the article has been floating around on these forum for ages.

As far as where are you setting up a pro club, the point is it doesn`t have to be fully pro, loads and loads of blokes play League over here because they can add another 5 or 10 thousand to their wages. When your a young bloke trying to get ahead that`s pretty handy.

 The NRL are probably in a similar situation with Perth over here, can`t afford or are unwilling to stump up the extra 5 million per year for possibly 10 years that Perth would need to get established. Of course if it was a success the sponsors would climb on board pretty quickly, but that`s the gamble. 

What went wrong with the Welsh ventures ?

So this is pretty much the level in Wales now, but I'm not sure there is the demand in Scotland right now, and living in Edinburgh I'd love that not to be the case. 

There is a case to be made that we could have focused on Scotland, but the RFL aren't in the business of setting up clubs, I'm sure if somebody wanted to set up a club they'd likely get a place. 

Im not necessarily disagreeing with the point that we could have done some stuff there, or that we could now do some stuff there, b it t we need to be honest and realistic about these things, Edinburgh is a City in the UK that we could try and spread RL but then so is Bristol, and Nottingham etc. Scotland isn't some hotbed of Rugby that has been crying out for RL and we keep passing up on golden opportunities. 

[GUBRATS]

1 minute ago, Dave T said:

So this is pretty much the level in Wales now, but I'm not sure there is the demand in Scotland right now, and living in Edinburgh I'd love that not to be the case. 

There is a case to be made that we could have focused on Scotland, but the RFL aren't in the business of setting up clubs, I'm sure if somebody wanted to set up a club they'd likely get a place. 

Im not necessarily disagreeing with the point that we could have done some stuff there, or that we could now do some stuff there, b it t we need to be honest and realistic about these things, Edinburgh is a City in the UK that we could try and spread RL but then so is Bristol, and Nottingham etc. Scotland isn't some hotbed of Rugby that has been crying out for RL and we keep passing up on golden opportunities. 

Oh yes it is Dave , an Aussie said so , so it must be true

[Dave T]

30 minutes ago, The Rocket said:

Not sure how that would help . Two of the three concussions in SOO1 were Tedesco sliding into Papaali`s knee and Cordner hitting his head on someone`s hip when making a low tackle.

If all tackles are below the waist we might just see more head clashes as tacklers go in.

If the goal is to eliminate all concussions I think they are going to have to find a different way. Professional players may have to sign waivers.

I agree with this, it would be interesting to know how many concussions are from bangs on the hip, knee, other tackles head or the ground. 

[Marauder]

I wonder what's happening with all the other sports during this pandemic and what shape they'll be in 5 years from now.

[GUBRATS]

4 minutes ago, Dave T said:

I agree with this, it would be interesting to know how many concussions are from bangs on the hip, knee, other tackles head or the ground. 

While that is true , it's not just one off incidents , it's the constant repetitive nature of the ' slid up off his shoulder ' type of impact , ones that are often defended on TV as accidental , when they are fully deliberate 

If we are honest RL is too dangerous to play , which is why IMO anything after age 18 other than pro is just not viable , I told my own son at 18 , if you play , you get paid , no pay , no play 

[Dave T]

Just now, GUBRATS said:

While that is true , it's not just one off incidents , it's the constant repetitive nature of the ' slid up off his shoulder ' type of impact , ones that are often defended on TV as accidental , when they are fully deliberate 

If we are honest RL is too dangerous to play , which is why IMO anything after age 18 other than pro is just not viable , I told my own son at 18 , if you play , you get paid , no pay , no play 

Yes, but if they change the tackle height then we will get more of the things I highlight which could replace the things you highlight. Unintended consequences. 

[Hela Wigmen]

15 minutes ago, GUBRATS said:

Read Ginger John's post above for your answer 

So, that’s a no. Beyond knowing there is/was a Manchester based side, my knowledge of Netball ends there. Do they have a French team in their domestic competition with a series of French players at other U.K. based clubs?

[Marauder]

2 minutes ago, GUBRATS said:

While that is true , it's not just one off incidents , it's the constant repetitive nature of the ' slid up off his shoulder ' type of impact , ones that are often defended on TV as accidental , when they are fully deliberate 

If we are honest RL is too dangerous to play , which is why IMO anything after age 18 other than pro is just not viable , I told my own son at 18 , if you play , you get paid , no pay , no play 

I hope your son was good enough to be paid.

When my kids got to 18 they became free to make their own decisions in life and play which sport they wanted.

[GUBRATS]

3 minutes ago, Hela Wigmen said:

So, that’s a no. Beyond knowing there is/was a Manchester based side, my knowledge of Netball ends there. Do they have a French team in their domestic competition with a series of French players at other U.K. based clubs?

Not got a clue what you're on about , have little to no interest in discussing it , quite simply if you hadn't noticed we're in a global pandemic , which means businesses including sports have to make allowances and operate differently , that includes who it is safe to play when trying to put together International type events 

But you please continue the discussion with whoever is interested enough to do so 

[GUBRATS]

2 minutes ago, Marauder said:

I hope your son was good enough to be paid.

When my kids got to 18 they became free to make their own decisions in life and play which sport they wanted.

He suffered a bad injury on a boggy pitch at Bridgend , put him back , was he good enough ? , Probably not 

As for my ' advice ' , well if you don't give ' advice ' or opinions to over 18yr olds , what are you doing on here ?

[Hela Wigmen]

2 minutes ago, GUBRATS said:

Not got a clue what you're on about , have little to no interest in discussing it , quite simply if you hadn't noticed we're in a global pandemic , which means businesses including sports have to make allowances and operate differently , that includes who it is safe to play when trying to put together International type events 

But you please continue the discussion with whoever is interested enough to do so 

Ah, that old chestnut. 

You enjoy your netball pal. 

[The Rocket]

2 minutes ago, Dave T said:

I agree with this, it would be interesting to know how many concussions are from bangs on the hip, knee, other tackles head or the ground. 

Yes Munsters concussion in Origin was when  think he slipped over backwards when taking a bomb.

BTW I think you make a very fair point regards the rise of the Pacific Nations being just as much as good luck as good management.

Credit where credits due though those Pacific nations may well stayed at the level they were 5 years ago had not tournaments like the Pacific Cup been pushed a bit harder. That bit of promotion may well have been what led blokes like Fifita to play for those countries and convince others to follow. I think the real test of how committed the NRL are to these countries is if they are prepared to subsidise their match payments instead of just relying on these blokes playing for pride. That would be the real test. 

[Newguy]

2 hours ago, GUBRATS said:

Some right nonsense on here , the Pacific island teams haven't been ' developed ' by anybody , they're a result of migration from those islands for work , and that those nation's people are ideally suited to Rugby in both its forms 

I lived in NZ in the seventies , the white Kiwi's and some Maori's played Union , the islanders ( I won't use the actual term used as I'm sure it would be construed as rascist ) and the rest of the Maori's played League , at that time League was considered a game for those who enjoyed a good fight 

It's not really considered racist to say 'Islanders' in a NZ context, there were unfortunately more awful terms used to denigrate people from the pacific islands. Plenty of Islanders played rugby union though, I grew up in NZ (Wellington) and although RL clubs were predominantly Māori (it's the singular and plural) and pacifika, with a few Pākehā (Māori term for Europeans), all rugby union clubs in Wellington had a solid representation of both cultures, more so today than in the 70s, and 80s. 

[The Rocket]

1 minute ago, Newguy said:

It's not really considered racist to say 'Islanders' in a NZ context,

He wasn`t going to use the word `Islander` I think the expression he was avoiding was `coconut`. Yes which is probably best actually avoided but at the Hospital where I used to work, it`s where a Maori friend of mine told be about a Tongan we were both friends with, it was more a reference to how hard their heads were, nothing more, nothing less. Lovely, warm, humorous, intelligent people I ever met.

[Newguy]

6 minutes ago, The Rocket said:

He wasn`t going to use the word `Islander` I think the expression he was avoiding was `coconut`. Yes which is probably best actually avoided but at the Hospital where I used to work, it`s where a Maori friend of mine told be about a Tongan we were both friends with, it was more a reference to how hard their heads were, nothing more, nothing less. Lovely, warm, humorous, intelligent people I ever met.

Having re-read it, yeah I see what he meant now, cheers for pointing that out Rocket.

[Marauder]

22 minutes ago, GUBRATS said:

He suffered a bad injury on a boggy pitch at Bridgend , put him back , was he good enough ? , Probably not 

As for my ' advice ' , well if you don't give ' advice ' or opinions to over 18yr olds , what are you doing on here ?

Firstly I'm sorry to hear about your son receiving a bad injury, secondly good enough or not, I respect the guy for pulling a jersey on, Thirdly I'm not here to give advice to the over 18's, It's their option if they want to take a little from whatever I or anyone else says.

I'll admit that I have taken a lot from this site and that can be reflected on where my amateur club stands at the moment, sadly this pandemic has probably put us back 2 or 3 years in our planning, but it will have done the same to everyone else, however we are not letting the grass grow under our feet and at the moment are looking into a pitch side clubhouse.

[GUBRATS]

1 hour ago, The Rocket said:

He wasn`t going to use the word `Islander` I think the expression he was avoiding was `coconut`. Yes which is probably best actually avoided but at the Hospital where I used to work, it`s where a Maori friend of mine told be about a Tongan we were both friends with, it was more a reference to how hard their heads were, nothing more, nothing less. Lovely, warm, humorous, intelligent people I ever met.

I've just PM'd newguy as I didn't want to post it on here , I have Tongan mates over here  specifically one who worked for me for several years , as you put they are absolutely brilliant people , funnily enough I hadn't heard the term you posted from 1978 when I returned home from NZ till 2006 when a NZ coach Leigh employed used the term for several players we had signed , no malice in its use , just essentially a collective name for the various inhabitants of the PI's 

[GUBRATS]

1 hour ago, Newguy said:

Having re-read it, yeah I see what he meant now, cheers for pointing that out Rocket.

Check your PMs

[langpark]

26 minutes ago, GUBRATS said:

I've just PM'd newguy as I didn't want to post it on here , I have Tongan mates over here  specifically one who worked for me for several years , as you put they are absolutely brilliant people , funnily enough I hadn't heard the term you posted from 1978 when I returned home from NZ till 2006 when a NZ coach Leigh employed used the term for several players we had signed , no malice in its use , just essentially a collective name for the various inhabitants of the PI's 

The beauty of the term 'coconut' was that it would include the NZ maoris along with the pacific islanders.  No other term can do that, not 'pacific islanders', nor 'polynesians'.  But yeah, it's not a word I would use if I didn't know the person well enough.

Anyway, back to the topic at hand, I do agree with you, the rise of these pacific nations, a large percentage of it has been down to luck and also, let's not forget the Jason Taumalolo defection, which single-handedly changed the face of RLWC2017 and arguably international RL as a whole.

I do give the Aussies credit for being more accommodating recently, with PNG Hunters in the Qld Cup and the Fiji team joining the NSW system, for example.  But so many Aussies just cannot grasp the sheer size of Europe, compared to Oceania.  Here are a few raw facts;

Australia and PNG (two countries where RL is (almost) the top sport) have a combined population of 33 million.  Which is 80% of the entire Oceania population (41.5 million).

England, or more specifically Lancashire, Yorkshire, Cumbria (where RL is more popular, but still not top sport) has a combined population of 7.5 million, out of 73 million (UK & Ireland), just over 10%.

So obviously, it's much easier for the 'fish in the puddle' than the 'little fish in the ocean'.