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Where do we think Rugby League will be in 5 years time?


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4 hours ago, The Rocket said:

  One of the biggest things holding your game back is the lack of internationals domestically and the exposure they offer, a successful WC can hopefully kick off a rejuvenation of International League.

Agree with you however

1. England is not as fortunate as Australia, who can easily arrange internationals against the likes of NZ, Samoa, Tonga, Fiji, which are also competitive, given the number of Pacific Island players running around in the NRL. We have France and possibly Wales, with the strength of the latter very much dependent upon them having their best 17 players all fit and available, and the chances of blow outs are still highly likely.

2. The game is run by club chairmen, all of whom think club first, country second. Releasing players for internationals is not high on their agenda, unless it’s a potential money maker against Australia or a World Cup, even then they want to play as many club games as possible before, so players either miss out through injury, or get burned out.

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For me when Leigh was given the 12th spot in Super League it very much summed it up for me. A competition which has no ambition and is happy to be a a M62 corridor game under the present administratio

Whoever your dealer is, tell him to send some round to ours....

For me it will be concussion which decides the future of the game. We're only at the very early stages of coming to terms with what impact this will have on both codes of rugby. I expect a seismic shi

5 hours ago, Tommygilf said:

Main point here is that Australia have managed to build up a strong international scene around them in a way England has abysmally failed at, and shows little sign of trying to change soon.

 

3 hours ago, Dave T said:

I agree with the rest of the post, but I think the above is a touch unfair. Ultimately, the raw talent that is aligned to PNG, Fiji, Samoa and Tonga has been the real driver of the development of those teams.  

Australia is surrounded by these nations plus New Zealand. England has France, Scotland, Ireland and Wales. 

Just to be clear about this, English RL has been surrounded for 125 years by the raw talent that is available in Scotland, Ireland, Wales and failed to bring any of those nations in any meaningful way at all into the English Rugby League system. Everyone of them should at least have teams at Championship level after all that time. Christ they should have a Super League Team. 125 years is a bloody sight longer than League has been played in the Pacific Islands.

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36 minutes ago, The Rocket said:

 

Just to be clear about this, English RL has been surrounded for 125 years by the raw talent that is available in Scotland, Ireland, Wales and failed to bring any of those nations in any meaningful way at all into the English Rugby League system. Everyone of them should at least have teams at Championship level after all that time. Christ they should have a Super League Team. 125 years is a bloody sight longer than League has been played in the Pacific Islands.

There was a thread where someone posted a newspaper article from the 50s/60s which was about the RFL rejecting an application from a club in Scotland and one of the reasons was the distance. Then there has been the various attempts in Wales in the past which never succeeded when with some central support who knows what could have happened.

There are the two clubs in League 1 but as usual with non heartland clubs the RFL accepted them and then left them to sink or swim, there has never been any coherent strategy about expansion and growing the pro game outside of the heartlands and while the current people are in charge there isn’t going to be one.

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League will continue for years to come, however there are a lot more sports and past times  out there  now all  are vying for tv exposure, that is exactly why you need a larger geographical footprint, if you continue down the path of being a mainly regional game then sponsorship and media coverage will decline , 

 

 

 

 

 

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I don't believe anyone has mentioned the community game yet. If you haven't already, I would take a look at Dave Woods' article for the BBC, which is a stark reminder of the issues at hand.

Rugby league's community clubs face fight for survival in lockdown - BBC Sport

We do not know what society will look like going forward. Are these restrictions going to be repeated annually, especially in winter? If so, that would be devastating for the sport. Will the restrictions lead to a society or generation who who have less interest in playing or watching sport in the flesh, and more satisfied consuming at home? Will people who watched out of habit stop? All of these things impact on finance and the sport generally.

This question goes hand in hand with what will the UK look like in 5 years? I think we will follow that. If the country has a post-covid boom, we'll improve. If things return to how they were, so will we. If we are hamstrung for years, the sport will suffer.

Edited by Chris22
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Basically a doom and gloom thread to enable doom and gloomers to post doom and gloom posts full of doom and gloom on the said thread 

We are in the middle ( we hope it's the middle and not still the start ) of the biggest global crisis since the 2nd WW , things aren't going to be easy , it will change the world of sport , how badly it will affect RL nobody fully knows yet , without this pandemic Toronto would most likely have played out season and probably be heading back down to the Championship ( my opinion , others are available ) to be replaced by Fev,Leigh or Toulouse 

Because of this situation the Sports governing body have made decisions they see as best to deal with the situation , they might ( most likely ) have made different ones in different circumstances 

Where do I think ' RL ' will be in 5 years ? , Being played at the same places it was being played at 15 months ago , apart from Toronto unfortunately , if they can be resurrected then great , if not , well that's just the way it is 

Oh and of course in 5 years time Wakey will have just announced a new development of a stand at Belle Vue 😉

Edited by GUBRATS
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I don’t think rugby league will die.There will still be a professional and semi professional game.

But I think there will be less clubs.

I think the Super League and Championship will still exist.I do think that Super League will become a 10 club elite division.

 I think the Championship will still be here but with no more than 14 clubs.It could even only be 10 or 12 clubs.

 I think all the Super League and Championship clubs will be a franchise and with licensing where they will have to basically apply and reapply every say 4-5 years for a franchise. And I think the criteria will be strict.

 I think the clubs who survive and win places in those divisions will survive and thrive.

The clubs who fail to make the cut will either become amateur clubs or will simply fade away.

 

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7 minutes ago, LeytherRob said:

In 5 years time the same people will still be telling everyone that rugby league is on it's death bed, just like they were 5 years ago. 

Rugby league will survive.Something will survive,something will always survive.

 I think the format will be different though as I suggested.

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5 hours ago, The Rocket said:

 

Just to be clear about this, English RL has been surrounded for 125 years by the raw talent that is available in Scotland, Ireland, Wales and failed to bring any of those nations in any meaningful way at all into the English Rugby League system. Everyone of them should at least have teams at Championship level after all that time. Christ they should have a Super League Team. 125 years is a bloody sight longer than League has been played in the Pacific Islands.

Except English RL has had to compete heavily with

1. soccer, the all dominating sport, the extent to which I’m not sure is fully understood in Australia 

2. RU doing it’s utmost to strangle RL for most of its existence

3. RL’s own lousy administration which seems to try to make things as difficult for itself as possible

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2 hours ago, GUBRATS said:

Basically a doom and gloom thread to enable doom and gloomers to post doom and gloom posts full of doom and gloom on the said thread 

We are in the middle ( we hope it's the middle and not still the start ) of the biggest global crisis since the 2nd WW , things aren't going to be easy , it will change the world of sport , how badly it will affect RL nobody fully knows yet , without this pandemic Toronto would most likely have played out season and probably be heading back down to the Championship ( my opinion , others are available ) to be replaced by Fev,Leigh or Toulouse 

Because of this situation the Sports governing body have made decisions they see as best to deal with the situation , they might ( most likely ) have made different ones in different circumstances 

Where do I think ' RL ' will be in 5 years ? , Being played at the same places it was being played at 15 months ago , apart from Toronto unfortunately , if they can be resurrected then great , if not , well that's just the way it is 

Oh and of course in 5 years time Wakey will have just announced a new development of a stand at Belle Vue 😉

It doesn’t have to be doom and gloom though, some clubs have done some great things, look how Fev have transformed their facilities, York and Newcastle seem to have some real momentum, both as pro clubs and in their communities, Warrington seem quite innovative with their marketing and Leeds redevelopment of Headingley is impressive. The problem is that a number of clubs just appear to be marking time and that’s dangerous in today’s world, where there are so many attractions competing for individuals spare time.

I hope you are right in that we will still be playing where we were 15 months ago (again obviously Toronto will not be), I also hope that Wakefield have their stand by then, and maybe even Cas will have something to show. Of course in 5 years time it finally will be Warringtons year😊

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4 hours ago, GUBRATS said:

Basically a doom and gloom thread to enable doom and gloomers to post doom and gloom posts full of doom and gloom on the said thread 

We are in the middle ( we hope it's the middle and not still the start ) of the biggest global crisis since the 2nd WW , things aren't going to be easy , it will change the world of sport , how badly it will affect RL nobody fully knows yet , without this pandemic Toronto would most likely have played out season and probably be heading back down to the Championship ( my opinion , others are available ) to be replaced by Fev,Leigh or Toulouse 

Because of this situation the Sports governing body have made decisions they see as best to deal with the situation , they might ( most likely ) have made different ones in different circumstances 

Where do I think ' RL ' will be in 5 years ? , Being played at the same places it was being played at 15 months ago , apart from Toronto unfortunately , if they can be resurrected then great , if not , well that's just the way it is 

Oh and of course in 5 years time Wakey will have just announced a new development of a stand at Belle Vue 😉

I am not a ‘doom or gloom’ merchant but I have based my previous response on what I have seen occur over the last few years.

In the discussions that I have had with you, you will have realised that I have been enthusiastic when I have perceived a realistic opportunity to introduce change.

I agree that Covid 19 has severely impacted all sports but Covid 19 cannot be blamed for the power structure and insular thinking in SL.  Therefore, in the foreseeable future I cannot see SL clubs giving up their decision making power so the decisions made will continue to be based upon retaining the status quo which provides a comfy environment for clubs and IMHO offers nothing for the overall growth of the game.

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8 hours ago, GUBRATS said:

Basically a doom and gloom thread to enable doom and gloomers to post doom and gloom posts full of doom and gloom on the said thread 

We are in the middle ( we hope it's the middle and not still the start ) of the biggest global crisis since the 2nd WW , things aren't going to be easy , it will change the world of sport , how badly it will affect RL nobody fully knows yet , without this pandemic Toronto would most likely have played out season and probably be heading back down to the Championship ( my opinion , others are available ) to be replaced by Fev,Leigh or Toulouse 

Because of this situation the Sports governing body have made decisions they see as best to deal with the situation , they might ( most likely ) have made different ones in different circumstances 

Where do I think ' RL ' will be in 5 years ? , Being played at the same places it was being played at 15 months ago , apart from Toronto unfortunately , if they can be resurrected then great , if not , well that's just the way it is 

Oh and of course in 5 years time Wakey will have just announced a new development of a stand at Belle Vue 😉

It’s not doom and gloom at all, it’s looking at how the game is going (or not) There’s a difference between looking at reality and arrogantly thinking ‘this is TGG, it will be fine’ 

Its absolutely nothing to do with COVID-19 either. The situation would be pretty much the same regardless of whether it had happened or not. You seem to just assume that clubs will continue as normal and new fans will appear from somewhere. Many existing RL fans are already out of the habit of attending games.....there’s no guarantee many of them will just automatically return. Many will of course but it shouldn’t be banked on, there will be a lot of physcological  changes after this passes- assuming it ever does. 

Edited by Johnoco
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11 hours ago, The Rocket said:

 

Just to be clear about this, English RL has been surrounded for 125 years by the raw talent that is available in Scotland, Ireland, Wales and failed to bring any of those nations in any meaningful way at all into the English Rugby League system. Everyone of them should at least have teams at Championship level after all that time. Christ they should have a Super League Team. 125 years is a bloody sight longer than League has been played in the Pacific Islands.

This is easy to say but it ignores the reality of the situation. Why should RL be big in these places? They are places where both football and Rugby Union are huge. What makes you think it is natural that RL should be big there? 

I think Wales could possibly be described as a missed opportunity, but when there were decent Welsh players in the game they had an international presence, in just the same way we see decent Pacific players lead to decent teams there. 

But when we look at recent history, it has been the RFL who took the risk when times were hard internationally. 1995 saw the first major WC tournament, which we hosted again in 2000. It bombed and we basically hosted everything for the next few years. Hopefully this year will see us stage our 4th major tournament, whilst the Aussies last tournament was lacklustre to say the least. The European Nations have been playing regular tournaments for years. 

There has been no strategic plan for the Pacific teams for years, as a game we are dropping lucky because plenty of players who can represent them live in Oz and NZ. 

As I said in my first post, none of this is suggesting Europe is being done well, but let's not make out the likes of Tonga, Fiji and Samoa are examples of good development.

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5 minutes ago, Dave T said:

This is easy to say but it ignores the reality of the situation. Why should RL be big in these places? They are places where both football and Rugby Union are huge. What makes you think it is natural that RL should be big there? 

I think Wales could possibly be described as a missed opportunity, but when there were decent Welsh players in the game they had an international presence, in just the same way we see decent Pacific players lead to decent teams there. 

RL doesn’t have to be ‘big’ in those places, however it should have a presence, certainly after all this time. It needn’t be (or try to be) as big as those other sports but a decent level of interest akin to many championship clubs could have been achieved years ago. 
 

And your example of Wales is a good example. Star RU players joining RL but what was the follow up? If they had done something basic 70 years ago, like try and develop the game at a low level we may be seeing a different picture today. But it’s always the same old story.

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2 minutes ago, Johnoco said:

RL doesn’t have to be ‘big’ in those places, however it should have a presence, certainly after all this time. It needn’t be (or try to be) as big as those other sports but a decent level of interest akin to many championship clubs could have been achieved years ago. 
 

And your example of Wales is a good example. Star RU players joining RL but what was the follow up? If they had done something basic 70 years ago, like try and develop the game at a low level we may be seeing a different picture today. But it’s always the same old story.

Why 'should' it have a presence? What's that based on other than your words? 

Why on earth 'should' RL have a presence in Ireland or Scotland particularly? 

If people there want Rugby, they have it, they also have Football. 

By the way, I don't disagree that we should have done more in all these places, I just don't see them as natural places where RL should be played. Scotland has just two pro Rugby Union clubs getting modest crowds after all this time. 

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2 minutes ago, Dave T said:

Why 'should' it have a presence? What's that based on other than your words? 

Why on earth 'should' RL have a presence in Ireland or Scotland particularly? 

If people there want Rugby, they have it, they also have Football. 

By the way, I don't disagree that we should have done more in all these places, I just don't see them as natural places where RL should be played. Scotland has just two pro Rugby Union clubs getting modest crowds after all this time. 

Ok it shouldn’t have a presence then. 
But going by more successful sports like football, cricket or RU, it’s quite useful. 

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I would hope the U.K. continues to focus on Newcastle and the north east.  

Given there is seemingly not a great deal of central seed money, then it can only be a case of supporting by other means the organic growth that appears to be taking place there.

I mean in that example the development of junior clubs and participation in the north east, the development of the Newcastle Thunder and using Magic and some England internationals to help cultivate awareness in Newcastle itself.

 

 

Edited by Gerrumonside ref
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18 minutes ago, Johnoco said:

Ok it shouldn’t have a presence then. 
But going by more successful sports like football, cricket or RU, it’s quite useful. 

My point is around this assumption that there is a place for RL in those places, why, just because it is close to England? 

I agree we should have made an effort, and we have to an extent, but I'm not sure they are areas that are ripe for decent level RL. 

In Oz there is a reason Tonga are doing well internationally and PNG are at the same level they always are (I'm ignoring the GB Lions event!!!!) - despite PNG having RL as a national sport. Its because there happens to be a great amount of talent in the NRL who can represent Tonga, and that is because of the makeup of the population more than anything else. 

But as I say, Scotland have played far more matches than Tonga over the last 10 year, including in their home nation, but the talent just isn't playing in SL, which is the difference. 

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1 minute ago, Dave T said:

My point is around this assumption that there is a place for RL in those places, why, just because it is close to England? 

I agree we should have made an effort, and we have to an extent, but I'm not sure they are areas that are ripe for decent level RL. 

In Oz there is a reason Tonga are doing well internationally and PNG are at the same level they always are (I'm ignoring the GB Lions event!!!!) - despite PNG having RL as a national sport. Its because there happens to be a great amount of talent in the NRL who can represent Tonga, and that is because of the makeup of the population more than anything else. 

But as I say, Scotland have played far more matches than Tonga over the last 10 year, including in their home nation, but the talent just isn't playing in SL, which is the difference. 

Yes exactly because it’s close to England. No area is ripe for RL, it has to be developed. Just like it was in Warrington or Wigan once. 

Ireland play cricket, as do Scotland. They aren’t going to win their WC anytime soon but they exist because back in time cricket clubs were set up. Not with aim of being big but just because they wanted to. RL never wanted to bother with this approach and we see the results today. 

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33 minutes ago, Dave T said:

This is easy to say but it ignores the reality of the situation. Why should RL be big in these places? They are places where both football and Rugby Union are huge. What makes you think it is natural that RL should be big there? 

I think Wales could possibly be described as a missed opportunity, but when there were decent Welsh players in the game they had an international presence, in just the same way we see decent Pacific players lead to decent teams there. 

But when we look at recent history, it has been the RFL who took the risk when times were hard internationally. 1995 saw the first major WC tournament, which we hosted again in 2000. It bombed and we basically hosted everything for the next few years. Hopefully this year will see us stage our 4th major tournament, whilst the Aussies last tournament was lacklustre to say the least. The European Nations have been playing regular tournaments for years. 

There has been no strategic plan for the Pacific teams for years, as a game we are dropping lucky because plenty of players who can represent them live in Oz and NZ. 

As I said in my first post, none of this is suggesting Europe is being done well, but let's not make out the likes of Tonga, Fiji and Samoa are examples of good development.

Look Dave I never said it had to be huge but I jut find it hard to fathom that after all this time those countries couldn`t have had a team or teams.

We`re talking about a professional sporting club here that would pay wages comparative at least with the existing union sides. I`m sure that every young union player coming through the ranks doesn`t get picked up by a pro union team, and in the past there wasn`t even pro union teams to pick them up. I`m just thinking if there had of been a League option perhaps some of the young blokes would have hedged their bets and kept an open mind about both.

I think Johnoco probably expresses it better than I can in his first post, and as far Scotland goes it does seem like a bit of a lost cause, perhaps if they had found a way to admit that Edinburgh team all those years ago.

One thing I have noticed in that Newsnow Rugby League on-line news site there does seem to be a smattering of League news being picked up off Irish news sites. So it can`t be completely invisible in that country if there running news article about the NRL or SLE.

 

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6 minutes ago, Johnoco said:

Yes exactly because it’s close to England. No area is ripe for RL, it has to be developed. Just like it was in Warrington or Wigan once. 

Ireland play cricket, as do Scotland. They aren’t going to win their WC anytime soon but they exist because back in time cricket clubs were set up. Not with aim of being big but just because they wanted to. RL never wanted to bother with this approach and we see the results today. 

I'm not convinced something just being close is a good reason to spend millions on something. 

But if your point is that we should have tried more, then I agree with you. 

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