Jump to content

Where do we think Rugby League will be in 5 years time?


Recommended Posts

In Australasia the game will go from strength to strength. The NRL will remian a vibrant competition in the Eastern States and International League between Aus, NZ and the Pacific Islands will gain in credibility albiet that all sides will be drawn from NRL clubs.

In the Northern Hemisphere, the game will have contracted in on itself only about six clubs will not be part-time and those youngsters who opt for league over other sports will either migrate to Union or the NRL at an early age. Money in the game will be even less than today and the lament on TRL will be that the game has gone back to circa 1991 without the star names that were around then.

The most damaging consequence of the decline in the northgern hemisphere will be the fuelling of voices down under who point out its a "secondary" game in the UK and the NRL could do an AFL and stay an Aussie sport with a poynesian twist. A view that may gian increasing traction.

Quote

When the pinch comes the common people will turn out to be more intelligent than the clever ones. I certainly hope so.

George Orwell
 

 

Link to post
Share on other sites

  • Replies 171
  • Created
  • Last Reply

Top Posters In This Topic

Top Posters In This Topic

Popular Posts

For me when Leigh was given the 12th spot in Super League it very much summed it up for me. A competition which has no ambition and is happy to be a a M62 corridor game under the present administratio

Whoever your dealer is, tell him to send some round to ours....

For me it will be concussion which decides the future of the game. We're only at the very early stages of coming to terms with what impact this will have on both codes of rugby. I expect a seismic shi

16 minutes ago, Big Picture said:

The statement, "And club volunteers in some of the country's most deprived communities fear it could be a devastating blow to the health and welfare of a generation of youngsters, particularly across the north of England heartlands" is right in line with what Tony Collins and Sean McGuire have discussed in their interviews: the game's unhealthy dependence on areas and towns which are economically disadvantaged/deprived.

The majority of sports have traditionally found their players from economically deprived communities as a career as a pro athlete offers the chance to escape poverty and change lives for ever. Where RL has fallen behind is that firstly the pro clubs are also located in economically deprived towns and cities, plus those same clubs have been unable to attract outside investment and sponsorship because the game itself is too low profile and hidden away on some satellite subscription channel. By NFL standards, Buffalo and Cleveland are hardly economic powerhouse cities, but that doesn’t matter because those teams are able to reach way outside those cities due to being part of a truly big league. RL’s challenge is that it’s not a high profile sport, and sadly is never likely to be, therefore it needs to plan carefully how it intends to survive in the future otherwise it may just end up contracting to 12, nominally pro clubs (but feeders for the NRL), with very little below.

  • Like 2
Link to post
Share on other sites
11 minutes ago, THE RED ROOSTER said:

In Australasia the game will go from strength to strength. The NRL will remian a vibrant competition in the Eastern States and International League between Aus, NZ and the Pacific Islands will gain in credibility albiet that all sides will be drawn from NRL clubs.

In the Northern Hemisphere, the game will have contracted in on itself only about six clubs will not be part-time and those youngsters who opt for league over other sports will either migrate to Union or the NRL at an early age. Money in the game will be even less than today and the lament on TRL will be that the game has gone back to circa 1991 without the star names that were around then.

The most damaging consequence of the decline in the northgern hemisphere will be the fuelling of voices down under who point out its a "secondary" game in the UK and the NRL could do an AFL and stay an Aussie sport with a poynesian twist. A view that may gian increasing traction.

Woe , woe and thrice woe 😂

  • Like 1
Link to post
Share on other sites
5 minutes ago, THE RED ROOSTER said:

In Australasia the game will go from strength to strength. The NRL will remian a vibrant competition in the Eastern States and International League between Aus, NZ and the Pacific Islands will gain in credibility albiet that all sides will be drawn from NRL clubs.

In the Northern Hemisphere, the game will have contracted in on itself only about six clubs will not be part-time and those youngsters who opt for league over other sports will either migrate to Union or the NRL at an early age. Money in the game will be even less than today and the lament on TRL will be that the game has gone back to circa 1991 without the star names that were around then.

The most damaging consequence of the decline in the northgern hemisphere will be the fuelling of voices down under who point out its a "secondary" game in the UK and the NRL could do an AFL and stay an Aussie sport with a poynesian twist. A view that may gian increasing traction.

I really hope this is not the case but I fear you may be right. I suspect that the NRL may end up becoming AFL like in that it’s seen as solely an antipodean sport, and that the presence of British born players in the NRL will be the only reminder to the average Aussie that there is even a game in the Northern hemisphere. I think a 12 club SL will still exist in the Northern hemisphere but in order to keep those clubs fully professional all of the TV money will go their way, so there will be very little below those 12, perhaps a slimmed down community game with a sole role of providing young players to the SL clubs, who in turn will resign themselves to each losing 3-4 players per year to either the NRL or Union. Of course in that scenario we could end up with a bizarre world where internationals involving England could still take place, but only ever being played in Australia, since all the top England qualified players will already be there, and the Aussies could run a World Cup where every player involved plays in the NRL.

Link to post
Share on other sites
28 minutes ago, THE RED ROOSTER said:

In Australasia the game will go from strength to strength. The NRL will remian a vibrant competition in the Eastern States and International League between Aus, NZ and the Pacific Islands will gain in credibility albiet that all sides will be drawn from NRL clubs.

In the Northern Hemisphere, the game will have contracted in on itself only about six clubs will not be part-time and those youngsters who opt for league over other sports will either migrate to Union or the NRL at an early age. Money in the game will be even less than today and the lament on TRL will be that the game has gone back to circa 1991 without the star names that were around then.

The most damaging consequence of the decline in the northgern hemisphere will be the fuelling of voices down under who point out its a "secondary" game in the UK and the NRL could do an AFL and stay an Aussie sport with a poynesian twist. A view that may gian increasing traction.

You've been reading this forum too much chap and it's given you a negative slant

Reports of our games demise have always been greatly exaggerated 

 

  • Like 3
  • Haha 1
Link to post
Share on other sites
3 hours ago, Oldbear said:

I guess that depends on the flow of Pacific Islanders who move to Aus in search of a better life and work. Their kids are then born and grow up in Aus, and play the game in Aussie junior comps, some make it all the way. But that’s hardly Australia helping develop the game, it’s just them sitting back and taking advantage of economics, so I’m not sure how much credit they can claim. We don’t have that luxury.

I think pacific island migration, towards NZ and Australia will steadily continue for years to come, so I don't think their heritage stocks will ever dry up.  A bit like Welsh, Scottish and Irish migration to England.

  • Like 1
Link to post
Share on other sites
9 hours ago, langpark said:

Anyway, back to the topic at hand, I do agree with you, the rise of these pacific nations, a large percentage of it has been down to luck and also, let's not forget the Jason Taumalolo defection, which single-handedly changed the face of RLWC2017 and arguably international RL as a whole.

 

5 hours ago, Oldbear said:

Correct me if I’m wrong, but from far away it seems that a lot of the Pacific Island success seems to come from simple economics, in that young Pacific Islanders leave their homes to find work in Australia, they have families and their kids learn the game through the Aussie system. This will probably continue as Islanders will seek a better life in Aus, and the players are a by product of this, rather than any grand NRL plan.

Let`s look at this another way. The Pacific Cup tests have been played since 1974, yes sporadically and probably with a varying deal of commitment from Australian and the IRL, but nonetheless played. And through an era when a lot more union was played in the Pacific Islands than Rugby League.

Now for us in our `white` bubble those game passed largely unnoticed or were ignored but probably not by those involved and their communities. I can recall quite distinctly matches played between Pacific Island Nations being played 20 years ago and the passion they engendered as to who could claim to be on top of the Rugby League tree amongst Pacific Island nations. These games were almost seen as SOO affairs with their passion and ferocity. And there was some classic matches.

Now once again these games weren`t televised, I don`t think were called on radio, only score updates and received scant newspaper coverage, however they did attract healthy crowds and I have little doubt that they were big news in those Islander communities, certainly in Australia. So in its` own way the notion of Pacific Nations teams and rivalries was being fostered. Perhaps even being fostered in those communities to a point where a time came when some young Pacific Islanders have said I want to represent my home nation, the nation of my forebears. And maybe that is where we stand today.

So is it totally unreasonable to say that todays current situation is the culmination of 50 years of Pacific Cup Tests, 50 years of those teams being around, certainly invisible to us but maybe not to them.

Another thing that I think is worth mentioning that as far as I can remember whenever we have had an especially high profile player of Islander heritage the League has been pretty quick to get these blokes back over to their home nation and have tournaments and competitions named after them and basically use their profile to spread the word. Petro Civoniceva, Jarryd Hayne perhaps were used in this manner. So this hasn`t just basically fallen in the NRL`s lap, and we must concede that immigration and these communities love of contact sports has been integral.

  • Like 1
Link to post
Share on other sites

Some good points that you bring up there Rocket.  I don't want to "###### for tat" with you on that last paragraph, but let's not forget how ruthless the Aussies (and other tier one nations) can be when they want to be.  The way they swooped in like vultures for Semi Radradra, depriving Fiji Bati of his services, I thought was disgraceful.  I know it's a bit unfair to blame a whole country for this, as it could literally have been down to one coach, but it wasn't exactly an isolated incident either.

Now these old test matches you speak of, I don't know anything about them, please tell me more.  I suppose my main question is this:  if those matches were, Tonga vs Samoa, for example, what exactly was Australia's role in those matches?

Personally, for me it's about 50-50.  50% pure luck with the migration, 50% has been from their initiatives.

 

Edited by langpark
  • Thanks 1
Link to post
Share on other sites
1 hour ago, langpark said:

Some good points that you bring up there Rocket.  I don't want to "###### for tat" with you on that last paragraph, but let's not forget how ruthless the Aussies (and other tier one nations) can be when they want to be.  The way they swooped in like vultures for Semi Radradra, depriving Fiji Bati of his services, I thought was disgraceful.  I know it's a bit unfair to blame a whole country for this, as it could literally have been down to one coach, but it wasn't exactly an isolated incident either.

Now these old test matches you speak of, I don't know anything about them, please tell me more.  I suppose my main question is this:  if those matches were, Tonga vs Samoa, for example, what exactly was Australia's role in those matches?

Personally, for me it's about 50-50.  50% pure luck with the migration, 50% has been from their initiatives.

 

You`re dead right with regards your first point , coaches don`t want to have a loss next to their name and will get the best players and anyone else can be damned.

The real test for me and the proof that their really serious is when all international players get equal or at least more equal appearance money, especially given that both sides contribute to the spectacle. Even if that means the Aussies get less, why should we rely on these young blokes putting up their hands for Tonga, Cook Islands et. al. and doing it for their country while the Aussies get 10 000 per game and do it for their country. I`m a little bit disappointed this issue hasn`t been addressed, perhaps the authorities are frightened of the consequences. There might be a real shake out of the international pecking order if the real young gun players started putting up their hands for elsewhere, say a Kotoni Staggs chooses Tonga first.

We have been happy to make these grandparent`s birth place eligibility rules but until we back it up with cash we`re still having a bet both ways or covering our ar$es because we often know a young bloke will take the cash first, he doesn`t know how long his career will last.

The history of the Pacific Cup goes back to the 1970`s when there was two tournaments arranged by the NSWRL, it was postponed then until the mid-80`s when the rise of Rugby League competitions in Pacific island nations saw its` revival. Still done under the auspices of either the NSWRL or NZRL. There`s a couple of good sites on-line: 

* 2009 Pacific Cup History - NRL

* Pacific Cup.  Wikipedia

* Samoa vs. Tonga in Rugby League

* Rugby League Samoa - Our History - RL Samoa.

These articles touch on all the nations that played and gives an insight into what was quite a rivalry. Even if unbeknown to us.

  • Like 1
Link to post
Share on other sites
On 22/01/2021 at 09:43, Oldbear said:

With all the talk about league structures, P&R v licensing, Private Equity, NRL involvement etc, I wonder what people here think about where the game of Rugby League will be in 5 years time? I’m not a doom and gloom guy so there’s no way I think the games is going to die, but on the other hand I do think that the next 5 years, and the decisions taken by the games leaders, will decide what kind of long term future we will see. So over to you forum members, where do you think the game will be in 5 years time, the same number of pro clubs, fewer or an increase? Will we end up becoming just a feeder league to RU/NRL? Will the sport retreat to the heartlands, will French clubs still be in the British structure? Is expansion over? If not then where will be the next expansion area? What about the amateur game, can the fall in playing numbers be reversed?

Overto you.

With the current situations happening around the world not much will change. I'd love to see France ONE DAY have full strength Catalans and Toulouse competing in their own French league. Ottawa looks like they are still active on twitter so may have 2022 in sight. Once coronavirus has fully healed I can see a brighter future for rugby league as long as the sport is maintained. Hoping the WC can get a good outcome whether it happens this year or next..

  • Like 1
Link to post
Share on other sites
18 hours ago, langpark said:

The beauty of the term 'coconut' was that it would include the NZ maoris along with the pacific islanders.  No other term can do that, not 'pacific islanders', nor 'polynesians'.  But yeah, it's not a word I would use if I didn't know the person well enough.

Anyway, back to the topic at hand, I do agree with you, the rise of these pacific nations, a large percentage of it has been down to luck and also, let's not forget the Jason Taumalolo defection, which single-handedly changed the face of RLWC2017 and arguably international RL as a whole.

I do give the Aussies credit for being more accommodating recently, with PNG Hunters in the Qld Cup and the Fiji team joining the NSW system, for example.  But so many Aussies just cannot grasp the sheer size of Europe, compared to Oceania.  Here are a few raw facts;

Australia and PNG (two countries where RL is (almost) the top sport) have a combined population of 33 million.  Which is 80% of the entire Oceania population (41.5 million).

England, or more specifically Lancashire, Yorkshire, Cumbria (where RL is more popular, but still not top sport) has a combined population of 7.5 million, out of 73 million (UK & Ireland), just over 10%.

So obviously, it's much easier for the 'fish in the puddle' than the 'little fish in the ocean'.

Sorry I can’t let this post slide without saying anything. There’s no ‘beauty’ to the term coconut. It’s racist and offensive. I live in NZ and while I am not of Island origin I know plenty of people who are and they would all be very upset if I called them a coconut. 

  • Thanks 1
Link to post
Share on other sites
37 minutes ago, Bondi Cannon said:

Sorry I can’t let this post slide without saying anything. There’s no ‘beauty’ to the term coconut. It’s racist and offensive. I live in NZ and while I am not of Island origin I know plenty of people who are and they would all be very upset if I called them a coconut. 

That is the reason I didn't use it , I disagree with Langpark as in my experience ( yes a long time ago ) it was a reference used only for the people from the small islands ( Samoa,Tonga,Cook island, Fiji ) , maybe the Aussies used it differently , but that wouldn't surprise me 

My dad worked at Feltex Carpets in Lower Hutt back in 75 , he was the lone ' pommie ' , the islanders initially referred to him as ' honky ' or ' whitey ' , not in a malicious way , usually just showing off to the female workers there , he became great friends with some of them , mostly the Samoans ( they looked after him when going for after work drinks ) and learned some of their language , as I put earlier , there are no more friendly , generous people than the islanders 

Link to post
Share on other sites
Just now, Bedfordshire Bronco said:

Ha! There are plenty of people here who probably have t-shirts over 18 years old! 

My dad still gives me advice , and I've just turned 60 , rarely do I take it 😂

Link to post
Share on other sites
22 hours ago, GUBRATS said:

 

As for my ' advice ' , well if you don't give ' advice ' or opinions to over 18yr olds , what are you doing on here ? 🤔

Ha! There are plenty of people here who probably have t-shirts over 18 years old! 

 

22 hours ago, The Rocket said:

 

Credit where credits due though those Pacific nations may well stayed at the level they were 5 years ago had not tournaments like the Pacific Cup been pushed a bit harder. That bit of promotion may well have been what led blokes like Fifita to play for those countries and convince others to follow. I think the real test of how committed the NRL are to these countries is if they are prepared to subsidise their match payments instead of just relying on these blokes playing for pride. That would be the real test. 

What have been the attendances over the last few years for Pacific Island vs Aus/NZ games? 

Link to post
Share on other sites
22 hours ago, GUBRATS said:

 

 

 

22 hours ago, The Rocket said:

 

Credit where credits due though those Pacific nations may well stayed at the level they were 5 years ago had not tournaments like the Pacific Cup been pushed a bit harder. That bit of promotion may well have been what led blokes like Fifita to play for those countries and convince others to follow. I think the real test of how committed the NRL are to these countries is if they are prepared to subsidise their match payments instead of just relying on these blokes playing for pride. That would be the real test. 

What have been the attendances over the last few years for Pacific Island vs Aus/NZ games? 

Link to post
Share on other sites
2 hours ago, Bondi Cannon said:

Sorry I can’t let this post slide without saying anything. There’s no ‘beauty’ to the term coconut. It’s racist and offensive. I live in NZ and while I am not of Island origin I know plenty of people who are and they would all be very upset if I called them a coconut. 

Fair enough, I knew somebody would.

Political correctness aside for a minute, I was just making a point that it's the only word I know of, that covers maoris and islanders (and yes, that is how it was used in Australia, in my experience).  Like I say, not a word I would go around saying in public, or to strangers, but it did get used a lot in smaller circles, especially in rugby league matches.  I remember playing with other maori or islander guys that would use it, when trying to quickly describe one of our opponents during half-time talks, without having the luxury of sitting and analysing the bloke's DNA to see if he is in fact of Samoan, Tongan or NZ maori descent.  Plus, the lines become even more blurred now as many that grew up in Aus and NZ now are a mixture of the above mentioned.  Hopefully a more PC term will emerge to keep everyone happy 😉

Link to post
Share on other sites
8 hours ago, The Rocket said:

* 2009 Pacific Cup History - NRL

* Pacific Cup.  Wikipedia

* Samoa vs. Tonga in Rugby League

* Rugby League Samoa - Our History - RL Samoa.

These articles touch on all the nations that played and gives an insight into what was quite a rivalry. Even if unbeknown to us.

Cheers, interesting, a bit light on detail though.  A question I have wondered about for a long time is; When did Tonga last play an actual international match in Tonga?  I don't think it has happened for years if not decades.

Link to post
Share on other sites
15 hours ago, THE RED ROOSTER said:

In Australasia the game will go from strength to strength. The NRL will remian a vibrant competition in the Eastern States and International League between Aus, NZ and the Pacific Islands will gain in credibility albiet that all sides will be drawn from NRL clubs.

In the Northern Hemisphere, the game will have contracted in on itself only about six clubs will not be part-time and those youngsters who opt for league over other sports will either migrate to Union or the NRL at an early age. Money in the game will be even less than today and the lament on TRL will be that the game has gone back to circa 1991 without the star names that were around then.

The most damaging consequence of the decline in the northgern hemisphere will be the fuelling of voices down under who point out its a "secondary" game in the UK and the NRL could do an AFL and stay an Aussie sport with a poynesian twist. A view that may gian increasing traction.

But just about every NRL club are in debt, don't own their own grounds so all there eggs seem to be in a TV contract  shaped basket.

We know SL is behind the NRL but clubs like Leeds, Saints and Wire are far better run than most NRL teams. Always remember Gareth Ellis saying when he left Leeds where the players were treated like Premier League footballers and went to the NRL he had to wash his own kit.....

The main problem is the NRL is just about maxed out for expansion and commercial opportunities as Australia is out of the way with a small population- the UK and France offer far more potential but its just the mismanagement that holds the game back in the Northern Hemisphere.

Link to post
Share on other sites
10 hours ago, langpark said:

Now these old test matches you speak of, I don't know anything about them, please tell me more.  

The one I recall reading about was the 1992 Pacific Cup final between Western Samoa and Tonga at Carlaw Park which went to two periods of extra time. There were hints in the reporting that the heightened tension of such a tight affair was feeding into off-field gang-related divisions between the respective Islander groups.

Could have been more that the NZRL were concerned about the consequences for the Kiwis, if players began inclining more towards their heritage nation. There was a similarly ludicrous over-reaction by the Auckland police to Tongan street celebrations during the 2017 WC.

Link to post
Share on other sites

Look back at this board, in 2015, 2010, 2005 2000 and 1995 and see the exact same issues being discussed. Nothing will change as long as the Yorkshire mafia hang on to power. See BDO and Scottish Football for similar examples of sports governing bodies being run for the sole purpose of lining the pockets of Blazer wearing gravy train passengers.

Link to post
Share on other sites
4 hours ago, Bondi Cannon said:

Sorry I can’t let this post slide without saying anything. There’s no ‘beauty’ to the term coconut. It’s racist and offensive. I live in NZ and while I am not of Island origin I know plenty of people who are and they would all be very upset if I called them a coconut. 

There`s a YouTube channel called TheCoconetTV, which is clearly run by and for Polynesians. They often have RL-related items.

I agree with you though, it`s a term those of European origin should avoid using.

Edited by unapologetic pedant
Link to post
Share on other sites

  

21 minutes ago, Bostik Bailey said:

Look back at this board, in 2015, 2010, 2005 2000 and 1995 and see the exact same issues being discussed. Nothing will change as long as the Yorkshire mafia hang on to power. See BDO and Scottish Football for similar examples of sports governing bodies being run for the sole purpose of lining the pockets of Blazer wearing gravy train passengers.

I am convinced that most RL fans are guilty of seeing the world through ######-coloured glasses.  As far as I am aware, participation numbers are the highest they have ever been and we have seen steady growth over the past 20 years.  At a quick search, here is some evidence:

2015:  Increase of 9,900 reported on previous year:  https://www.rugby-league.com/article/33357/participation-increases-are-testament-to

2017:  Year-on-year increases since 2012 confirmed as well as a 40% increase over the last 10 years:  https://www.totalrl.com/exclusive-rfl-issue-response-participation-figures-sport-england/

2020:  RFL reports increase in participation in 2019, from 102,304 to 109,501:  https://www.rugby-league.com/article/56906/rfl-confirms-return-to-profit-and-increased-participation-in-

So please, can a highly-qualified armchair-critic please tell me what I am missing here?  Where is the evidence that the game is dying??

Edited by langpark
  • Like 1
Link to post
Share on other sites

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!

Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.

Sign In Now
  • Recently Browsing   0 members

    No registered users viewing this page.




×
×
  • Create New...