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1 hour ago, Gerrumonside ref said:

Seems to me looking in from nearby that Wigan Athletic and Wigan rugby league fans are two very separate tribes in that place.

In fact some Wigan Athletic fans actually support St Helens rugby league such is the rivalry in the town between football/rugby.

Whether things are changing/have changed much in the last 15 years or so I don’t know.

Nope thats veey accurate still!

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I went to Uni with two massive Wigan athletic fans who made a point of following rugby union to spite RL

Petty. I imagine many RL fans follow a football team and vice versa, there’s natural crossover, and there’s the summer/winter thing. There’s nothing to be gained by making local football clubs an

Technically I agree, but in Halifax where I live there is genuine animosity and very little crossover between the two sets of fans. Anecdotally I’ve heard it’s the same in Hull and Wigan 

40 minutes ago, Hela Wigmen said:

Not in the slightest. The football fans hate Wigan RL with a passion and were openly celebrating one of their own, Jack Welsby (a Wigan Athletic fan), scoring the winning try in the Grand Final. 

Absolutely spot on, even as a wire when playing at the piedome latics fans were willing us to win. 

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1 hour ago, Hela Wigmen said:

Not in the slightest. The football fans hate Wigan RL with a passion and were openly celebrating one of their own, Jack Welsby (a Wigan Athletic fan), scoring the winning try in the Grand Final. 

And you don't think the RL fans general ridiculing of Latics lower and non league status for decades has anything to do with that ? , They've took the ###### for decades while following Liverpool and Man Utd rather than their local football team , so they can hardly expect the Latics fans to support them 

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26 minutes ago, GUBRATS said:

And you don't think the RL fans general ridiculing of Latics lower and non league status for decades has anything to do with that ? , They've took the ###### for decades while following Liverpool and Man Utd rather than their local football team , so they can hardly expect the Latics fans to support them 

It isn’t so much as that, as so few Latics fans actually existed when they were doing (even) worse in the league than they are now. When prompted, though, you tend to find the most quoted incident was when Latics asked to play a cup game against Liverpool at Central Park and were told there was only one show in town as far as Uncle Mo was concerned with the end result being both legs being played at Anfield.

After moving to the DW, the pettiness between the two resonated at literally every level. Rugby fans refusing to sit in blue seats, Latics fans wearing Saints shirts etc. There is a certain crossover between the two, but it’s relatively minute and if nothing else they probably keep their head down for a quieter life.

Certainly didn’t go down too well for the short spell that ML was on the Latics board in later years. 

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I always laugh at my Cas and Wakey supporting mates who sing "we all hate Leeds" on a Friday night against the Rhinos then sing "Marching on together" for Leeds United the following afternoon.

In the smaller towns with no football league representation you normally see fans float to bigger or at least "regional interest" sides. Wakefield, Leigh, Castleford, Warrington, St Helens, Widnes etc, are effectively the "football" clubs of their town, they just play rugby football, and the football inclined fans go to the bigger places. Likewise in the bigger places like Leeds (who I believe hold claim to be the largest 1 club city in Europe for football) and Bradford, whilst not having 2 association football teams they do have 2 "footballing" teams, one of whom plays just plays rugby football.

The same is true in Union strongholds with say Gloucester and Bath for the former type and Northampton and Leicester for the latter.

You have some places that are probably too small for 2 teams (regardless of the sport), Wigan, Halifax, Oldham, Rochdale, maybe even Hull with 3 teams, and the constant competition from both that isn't really beneficial for anybody.

FWIW I don't think support of either sport influences the other massively in general terms, plenty will support both though most will only attend one in person. That said this is true where levels of the football club are relatively stable and equally it was RL that decided to move to Sunday afternoons (and latterly for TV Friday nights) to not conflict with football. Perhaps the answer is rather not whether it is a problem, but how we minimise competing loyalties? 

The likes of for example Barrow AFC rising and doing well is the only one that could really impact RL imo, but even then its pushing it.

 

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I always think rugby benefitted from a more family and female friendly image that also encouraged a more mature minded fan. The extent to which that is pure rose tinted glasses and crucially how football has cleaned up its own image could be the most impactful thing.

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3 hours ago, Gerrumonside ref said:

Seems to me looking in from nearby that Wigan Athletic and Wigan rugby league fans are two very separate tribes in that place.

In fact some Wigan Athletic fans actually support St Helens rugby league such is the rivalry in the town between football/rugby.

Whether things are changing/have changed much in the last 15 years or so I don’t know.

I went to Uni with two massive Wigan athletic fans who made a point of following rugby union to spite RL

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Surely its the mid-to-longer term impact if the local soccer club continues to be successful.   That is were the media interest goes and what the kids in the playground talk about and hence interest in whatever they are interested in, etc etc...

Not the current interaction from kids that are now grown to adults for the sport.

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3 hours ago, Bedfordshire Bronco said:

I agree it's petty but I do it too

I briefly scan the soccer results hoping Leeds, Hull, Wigan etc. lose

I have no regrets 

Definitely petty, but that’s being a sports fan for you. 

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14 hours ago, Man of Kent said:

Petty.

I imagine many RL fans follow a football team and vice versa, there’s natural crossover, and there’s the summer/winter thing. There’s nothing to be gained by making local football clubs an enemy.

Having worked in Leeds for many years, especially Pre SL, I remember some Leeds RL fans not having anything good to say about Leeds United, but rarely heard it the other way.

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1 hour ago, Leyther_Matt said:

It isn’t so much as that, as so few Latics fans actually existed when they were doing (even) worse in the league than they are now. When prompted, though, you tend to find the most quoted incident was when Latics asked to play a cup game against Liverpool at Central Park and were told there was only one show in town as far as Uncle Mo was concerned with the end result being both legs being played at Anfield.

After moving to the DW, the pettiness between the two resonated at literally every level. Rugby fans refusing to sit in blue seats, Latics fans wearing Saints shirts etc. There is a certain crossover between the two, but it’s relatively minute and if nothing else they probably keep their head down for a quieter life.

Certainly didn’t go down too well for the short spell that ML was on the Latics board in later years. 

I went to senior school in Wigan , witnessed plenty of ' derision ' of Latics from the pie faithful back in the 70s

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5 hours ago, Hopping Mad said:

It's definitely got worse since the clubs started sharing The Shay.

My family was unusual because it supported both clubs but you didn't see too many crossover faces at games.

Now, there is a number of Halifax Town FC fans (check out their forum), who used to go to Thrum Hall, who swear they'll never watch Halifax RLFC again.

I used to follow both codes in Halifax, but the bile from the soccer fans when Fax moved into the Shay pretty much forced me to take sides 

"Freedom without socialism is privilege and injustice, socialism without freedom is slavery and brutality" - Mikhail Bakunin

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The only time I feel antagonism against a RL town's Football club is when they try to throw their weight about and act like dicks. The whole Hull FC/Hull City thing got petty and nasty for a while, but I don't know how things are these days. I'm hoping no news is good news.

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"Men will be proud to say 'I am a European'. We hope to see a day when men of every country will think as much of being a European as of being from their native land." (Winston Churchill)

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4 hours ago, Gerrumonside ref said:

I’ll have a stab at guessing.

Since probably the late 1980’s there’s been a movement away from northern towns to cities (first London, but then later places like Manchester, Birmingham and Leeds).  This has acted like a major brain drain on these northern towns and along with other major economic events or trends many of these places have been hollowed out.  

Basically a lot of the young would be educated business class in these places have buggered off for the sunny uplands elsewhere leaving many of these places in a vicious circle of decline that their traditional councils have struggled to arrest.  There’s still some fighting the good fight but it is a difficult battle.

I reckon this has removed a fair amount of local civic pride as real decline and deprivation is left with often the wrong people blamed for its cause.  I think what’s left in terms of cultural identity is then more tied up in sports teams than the actual town you’re from.

Might be totally wrong there, but I think it’s part of the answer myself.

 

 

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Looking back on my days growing up in Wigan in the 80's the animosity certainly felt one way... i.e. Latics to Wigan RLFC.

Probably only human nature. They were essentially living in a parallel universe where they were following the world's most most popular sport but in their town they were the poor cousin (in popularity and following) while the town's around them such as Bury and Bolton had football as the main team.

I don't remember much animosity from RL to Latics but of course any jibes can come across more spiteful when you are on the receiving end.

As I say, none of any of these feelings are unique to Rugby League or any sports. Animosity towards someone or something you perceive to be negatively effecting you is human nature ( even if, in reality, it isn't)... as is being unaware that something you perceive as harmless can be taken as more serious.

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4 hours ago, Gerrumonside ref said:

I’ll have a stab at guessing.

Since probably the late 1980’s there’s been a movement away from northern towns to cities (first London, but then later places like Manchester, Birmingham and Leeds).  This has acted like a major brain drain on these northern towns and along with other major economic events or trends many of these places have been hollowed out.  

Basically a lot of the young would be educated business class in these places have buggered off for the sunny uplands elsewhere leaving many of these places in a vicious circle of decline that their traditional councils have struggled to arrest.  There’s still some fighting the good fight but it is a difficult battle.

I reckon this has removed a fair amount of local civic pride as real decline and deprivation is left with often the wrong people blamed for its cause.  I think what’s left in terms of cultural identity is then more tied up in sports teams than the actual town you’re from.

Might be totally wrong there, but I think it’s part of the answer myself.

 

 

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1 hour ago, Gooleboy said:

Having worked in Leeds for many years, especially Pre SL, I remember some Leeds RL fans not having anything good to say about Leeds United, but rarely heard it the other way.

You used to see glimpses of anti-RL stuff in The Square Ball occasionally but it's nothing like the Wigan or even Hull relationships. As far as I can tell there is no real divide for most people - if you support one you may not support the other but are unlikely to loathe them. Myself excepted of course; from my perspective, Leeds United are a south of the river team and I'd be as likely to support 'Unslet as support them. And, despite Wigan's best efforts over many years, the Hun remain the anti-Christ of Rugby League.

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2 hours ago, Tommygilf said:

I believe hold claim to be the largest 1 club city in Europe for football

 

Naples.

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Build a man a fire, and he'll be warm for a day. Set a man on fire, and he'll be warm for the rest of his life. (Terry Pratchett)

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6 hours ago, Hopping Mad said:

It's definitely got worse since the clubs started sharing The Shay.

My family was unusual because it supported both clubs but you didn't see too many crossover faces at games.

Now, there is a number of Halifax Town FC fans (check out their forum), who used to go to Thrum Hall, who swear they'll never watch Halifax RLFC again.

I think this is true in Oldham. There always seemed a crossover between the Roughyeds fans and the Latics fans (the real latics not the imitation Wigan ones) . That is until Watersheddings was knocked down and we groundshared at Boundary Park. Now there is so much animosity that the yeds have to play out of town. There are all sorts of rumours as to why, but each set of fans blame the other. 

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Around the early 70's watching Rochdale AFC at Spotland and certainly at the away games the Boot Boy/Hooligan culture was trendy. Being chased or booted up the ###### was commonplace.

One of the niceties of watching Rochdale Hornets was the trouble free atmosphere where you could enjoy the game without the fear of getting your head kicked in.

All the away sides visiting Hornets, some with pretty big followings simply supported their side and enjoyed the win.

However there was one exception. Perhaps because they were a Rugby only town I always remember hordes of Warrington boot boys marauding around the Athletic Grounds area looking for a scrap. All Doc Martins & half mast kecks. They seemed disappointed to only find flat cappers, mums & dads and the resident lost soul season ticket holders fumbling to open their flasks 🤪

Always stood out that a Rugby League club travelled with that kind of following. Not sure how long it lasted or if it got copied at other RL grounds?

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I cannot admit to being a Salford City FC fan, but I am quite glad they are doing OK. The only time I ventured to their ground was when the Lions ground shared Moor Lane, I had one visit, the only time I saw them play was when they won 0-4 at Dover Athletic.

The number of football games I have attended is probably less than a dozen.

Where were you last Thursday?

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1 hour ago, gingerjon said:

Naples.

Paris, unless you include the couple of struggling semi pro teams who play in front of three figure crowds. 

Edited by Eddie
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7 minutes ago, Eddie said:

Paris

Paris has three.  Apart from PSG, Paris FC play in Div 2 and Red Star in Div 3.

"We'll sell you a seat .... but you'll only need the edge of it!"

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27 minutes ago, Eddie said:

Paris, unless you include the couple of struggling semi pro teams who play in front of three figure crowds. 

Paris FC have been bought by Bahrain so there’s a good chance they will be moving up the rankings soon.

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Build a man a fire, and he'll be warm for a day. Set a man on fire, and he'll be warm for the rest of his life. (Terry Pratchett)

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