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RL is in the best shape it's ever been


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3 minutes ago, Damien said:

You talked about broadcasters. Super League rights have been broadly similar or better than the RU equivalent for years. The geographic spread of teams has had no impact on that. You were wrong and so now are moving the goalposts.

No, SL rights have not been broadly similar or better than the RU equivalent for years.  That 37 million £ a year is a reduction from their previous deal which was worth 200 million £ over four years or 50 million £ a year.

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5 minutes ago, Big Picture said:

No, SL rights have not been broadly similar or better than the RU equivalent for years.  That 37 million £ a year is a reduction from their previous deal which was worth 200 million £ over four years or 50 million £ a year.

You are simply making stuff up now, the previous RU deal was £200 million over 6 years.

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2 minutes ago, Damien said:

You are simply making stuff up now, the previous RU deal was £200 million over 6 years.

No I'm not making anything up, though 6 years was widely quoted it's erroneous because as you can read here the extension covered the four years from 2017 through 2021 even though it was negotiated in 2015, so it paid £200 million more than the original contract for that 4-year extension.

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37 minutes ago, Big Picture said:

No I'm not making anything up, though 6 years was widely quoted it's erroneous because as you can read here the extension covered the four years from 2017 through 2021 even though it was negotiated in 2015, so it paid £200 million more than the original contract for that 4-year extension.

£200 million over 6 years. When you are in a hole its better to just stop digging.

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1 minute ago, Damien said:

£200 million over 6 years. When you are in a hole its better to just stop digging.

Though it says that, it also says that it covers the 4 years from 2017-2021 so in fact it was 200 million £ over 4 years.  If it had been 200 million £ over 6 years that would average out 33.333333 million £ per year, making their latest extension of 110 million £ over 3 years an increase rather than a decrease, in which case they wouldn't have needed to reduce their salary cap like they've done.

So I stand by my statement that in fact the 200 million £ was over 4 years and the claim that it was over 6 years was just sloppiness on the part of the journalist(s) who reported it.

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Just now, Big Picture said:

Though it says that, it also says that it covers the 4 years from 2017-2021 so in fact it was 200 million £ over 4 years.  If it had been 200 million £ over 6 years that would average out to 33.333333 million £ per year, making their latest extension of 110 million £ over 3 years an increase rather than a decrease, in which case they wouldn't have needed to reduce their salary cap like they've done.

So I stand by my statement that in fact the 200 million £ was over 4 years and the claim that it was over 6 years was just sloppiness on the part of the journalist(s) who reported it.

 

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1 minute ago, Big Picture said:

Though it says that, it also says that it covers the 4 years from 2017-2021 so in fact it was 200 million £ over 4 years.  If it had been 200 million £ over 6 years that would average out 33.333333 million £ per year, making their latest extension of 110 million £ over 3 years an increase rather than a decrease, in which case they wouldn't have needed to reduce their salary cap like they've done.

So I stand by my statement that in fact the 200 million £ was over 4 years and the claim that it was over 6 years was just sloppiness on the part of the journalist(s) who reported it.

They've reduced the salary cap because of a little thing called covid and the fact that most clubs were losing small fortunes as is. They also have less money coming in after selling their soul to PE.

Either way none of this moving the goalposts backs up your initial claim. You can knock RL for a lot of things but Super League TV deals compare well to their RU equivalents. It certainly isn't a negative like you are trying to portray.

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8 minutes ago, Damien said:

They've reduced the salary cap because of a little thing called covid and the fact that most clubs were losing small fortunes as is. They also have less money coming in after selling their soul to PE.

Either way none of this moving the goalposts backs up your initial claim. You can knock RL for a lot of things but Super League TV deals compare well to their RU equivalents. It certainly isn't a negative like you are trying to portray.

I didn't move the goalposts, I simply stated the true facts about that 200 million £ extension.  You're conveniently forgetting that the 2 years from when it was negotiated to when it kicked in were already covered by the previous TV contract.  The salary cap cut is the result of a reduction of income, they aren't getting an increase with their new contract.

I agree that the SL TV deals are pretty good for what SL gives the broadcasters, but they aren't as good as what RU gets.  The fact that only a few of the SL clubs can pay the full cap amount for their players and those players get on average only half as much as players in the RU Premiership speaks to how far behind RU the sport has fallen in Britain.

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3 minutes ago, Big Picture said:

I didn't move the goalposts, I simply stated the true facts about that 200 million £ extension.  You're conveniently forgetting that the 2 years from when it was negotiated to when it kicked in were already covered by the previous TV contract.  The salary cap cut is the result of a reduction of income, they aren't getting an increase with their new contract.

I agree that the SL TV deals are pretty good for what SL gives the broadcasters, but they aren't as good as what RU gets.  The fact that only a few of the SL clubs can pay the full cap amount for their players and those players get on average only half as much as players in the RU Premiership speaks to how far behind RU the sport has fallen in Britain.

Maybe RU needs to set up clubs where nobody is interested in RU , that'll increase their income 🤔

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17 minutes ago, Big Picture said:

I didn't move the goalposts, I simply stated the true facts about that 200 million £ extension.  You're conveniently forgetting that the 2 years from when it was negotiated to when it kicked in were already covered by the previous TV contract.  The salary cap cut is the result of a reduction of income, they aren't getting an increase with their new contract.

I agree that the SL TV deals are pretty good for what SL gives the broadcasters, but they aren't as good as what RU gets.  The fact that only a few of the SL clubs can pay the full cap amount for their players and those players get on average only half as much as players in the RU Premiership speaks to how far behind RU the sport has fallen in Britain.

Premier Rugby accounts show they don't receive the money you are trying to claim. Your £50 million a year is a made up fantasy.  Their accounts and every news report shows that.

The salary cap reduction is because of covid. Ignoring the effects of covid to paint a false picture is just daft.

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41 minutes ago, Damien said:

Premier Rugby accounts show they don't receive the money you are trying to claim. Your £50 million a year is a made up fantasy.  Their accounts and every news report shows that.

The salary cap reduction is because of covid. Ignoring the effects of covid to paint a false picture is just daft.

Do you have link to that information then?

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1 hour ago, GUBRATS said:

Maybe RU needs to set up clubs where nobody is interested in RU , that'll increase their income 🤔

If they had a way to promote their sport in those places and create an audience there for it, then yes it might well do that.  They don't really need to though, they have a national profile and stature already.  RL on the other hand ...

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The RU Prem deal was £40m per year, the same as Sky were paying RL. This is widely reported in many articles, a quick Google search shows it. 

RU have seen that reduce to £37m per year, it looks like we have dropped further so far. 

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2 hours ago, Big Picture said:

If they had a way to promote their sport in those places and create an audience there for it, then yes it might well do that.  They don't really need to though, they have a national profile and stature already.  RL on the other hand ...

So maybe RL should stop worrying about the names of the SL teams and really focus on the international game, which is where the real growth is. 

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23 minutes ago, Dave T said:

The RU Prem deal was £40m per year, the same as Sky were paying RL. This is widely reported in many articles, a quick Google search shows it. 

RU have seen that reduce to £37m per year, it looks like we have dropped further so far. 

True but, as I understand it, CVC now grabs 27% of their revenue.

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27 minutes ago, Dave T said:

So maybe RL should stop worrying about the names of the SL teams and really focus on the international game, which is where the real growth is. 

That growth is a mirage though, it's built on made up teams full of players who've either never lived in the country they represent or left it when they were little gaffers and grew up in another country altogether.

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30 minutes ago, Dave T said:

The RU Prem deal was £40m per year, the same as Sky were paying RL. This is widely reported in many articles, a quick Google search shows it. 

RU have seen that reduce to £37m per year, it looks like we have dropped further so far. 

I found exactly one report saying that they turned down an extension for "about the same £40m-a-year fee" which is a very odd statement.  You see, the previous deal negotiated in 2015 covering the period from 2017 to 2021 was for 200 million £, a figure which could only work out to 40 million £ per year if it was for 5 years.  Consequently that reported figure of 40 million £ per can not possibly be right.  I'm still waiting for @Damiento provide a source for his claim that the figure in fact covered the six years from 2015 to 2021 but I'm not holding my breath.  That would mean that it wiped out the payments for 2015 and 2016 from the original contract which I've now found out was for 152 million £ over 4 years, we don't seriously think that the well-connected RU lot would have agreed to that do we?  They'd have been idiots to do that!

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On 27/01/2021 at 16:27, Johnoco said:

There are still famous sportspeople so I'd suggest it's a failing of RL.

I used those two because I'd heard of them when I wasn't remotely into RL - or even any sport. Whereas now I don't think someone in the same position is very unlikely to know any RL players.

100%.

I didn’t follow RL growing up, yet I knew Hanley and Offiah. I didn’t know 99.9% of the players, but I knew them. I knew them because they stood out a mile. Show a highlight reel of either, and then tell me they could replicate that today. The answer is no chance. They simply would not be afforded the same space. Precisely the same would apply to Jonah Lomu. All 17 stone of him swatting away opponents, he’d get nailed in today’s game by guys not of dissimilar size. Hanley, those length of the field runs through open traffic, the lanes today are shut. Space is at a premium. Tighter more organised defences, attritional aspects like the wrestle from Australia brought in. It’s an infinitely harder game to excel in, thus become a star.

I take Dunbar’s point about greater choice meaning there’s less attention than previous. That’s true. Which only increases the need to stand out, to rise above the parapit. Football for one has only given players a GREATER platform to stand out (carpet like pitches, increase in player protection from officials). RL (and RU) have done the opposite, making it much harder to stand out.

As I said in a previous post, England vs NZ, 2018 RUWC semi final, England win, all eyes on them, yet there was not one England player that stood out that the papers/media/joe public could hone in on. It was another attritional affair, just like the 2017 RLWC final, just like the last Super League Grand final, just like the Aussie bloke’s entire tenure in charge of England, just like Shaun Wane’s sides, just like much of RL today. There is moments of attacking quality, but far less than previous. Attacking players, ie. the headline makers, just don’t get the same platform.

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On 27/01/2021 at 13:07, fighting irish said:

I heard something on Radio 2 in the last 7 days about a breakthrough in research in MND at (I think) Glasgow University. They mentioned Doddie Wier (being a Scot and suffering from the disease).  I'm sorry I don't have any more information but they seemed very excited about the development. So I thought I'd mention it for those who have been following Rob Burrows story. 

Sorry to derail the thread.

Just googled MND and Glasgow to see if there was anything on that, and came across this heartbreaking story. 

https://www.dailyrecord.co.uk/news/scottish-news/young-scots-mum-jennifer-bell-23217222

“I had to work three nights shifts a week to put food on the table on top of nursing placement. 

“I worked my ###### off and thought in the end it’ll be worth it.

“Then in the end of my long hard journey when I could see light at the end of the tunnel I was diagnosed with Motor Neurone Disease.

“That is unfair. Being diagnosed with a terminal illness is unfair at any age, but before 30 is gut-wrenching.

“It’s unfair two wee kids are going to lose their mum.

“So before you moan today about how you had a ###### sleep last night, or you can’t be bothered with work or you have a sore throat, maybe think to yourself in the grand scheme of things is this really important?

“You only have one life so live it and if there’s something you don’t like change it.

“Don’t take life for granted because tomorrow is never guaranteed. And this isn’t a pity poor girl post this is a post for all the the people who think they have problems but do nothing about it.”

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8 hours ago, Big Picture said:

That growth is a mirage though, it's built on made up teams full of players who've either never lived in the country they represent or left it when they were little gaffers and grew up in another country altogether.

Considering your grand plan is creating a league of non-existent teams I find this incredibly ironic. 

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