Bedfordshire Bronco Posted January 31, 2021 Share Posted January 31, 2021 7 hours ago, DC77 said: 100%. I didn’t follow RL growing up, yet I knew Hanley and Offiah. I didn’t know 99.9% of the players, but I knew them. I knew them because they stood out a mile. Show a highlight reel of either, and then tell me they could replicate that today. The answer is no chance. They simply would not be afforded the same space. Precisely the same would apply to Jonah Lomu. All 17 stone of him swatting away opponents, he’d get nailed in today’s game by guys not of dissimilar size. Hanley, those length of the field runs through open traffic, the lanes today are shut. Space is at a premium. Tighter more organised defences, attritional aspects like the wrestle from Australia brought in. It’s an infinitely harder game to excel in, thus become a star. I take Dunbar’s point about greater choice meaning there’s less attention than previous. That’s true. Which only increases the need to stand out, to rise above the parapit. Football for one has only given players a GREATER platform to stand out (carpet like pitches, increase in player protection from officials). RL (and RU) have done the opposite, making it much harder to stand out. As I said in a previous post, England vs NZ, 2018 RUWC semi final, England win, all eyes on them, yet there was not one England player that stood out that the papers/media/joe public could hone in on. It was another attritional affair, just like the 2017 RLWC final, just like the last Super League Grand final, just like the Aussie bloke’s entire tenure in charge of England, just like Shaun Wane’s sides, just like much of RL today. There is moments of attacking quality, but far less than previous. Attacking players, ie. the headline makers, just don’t get the same platfor I agree with part of this but on the other hand....attacking plays have advanced too also rule changes like giving the winger the corner flag and the 40-20 kick etc... There is a decent argument for moving to 11 a side in my view. Not just to make it a more attacking game but financially Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dunbar Posted January 31, 2021 Share Posted January 31, 2021 1 minute ago, Bedfordshire Bronco said: I agree with part of this but on the other hand....attacking plays have advanced too also rule changes like giving the winger the corner flag and the 40-20 kick etc... There is a decent argument for moving to 11 a side in my view. It just to make it a more attacking game There are more points scored in a game of Rugby League today than in the 80's and 90's. If we go to 11 aside and see scores like 40-30 almost every week then I think we would have lost something at the very core of the game... that attritional and physical element that has always been such a part of Rugby League. There are loads of great tries scored in modern day Rugby League... scored by skilful and athletic players. Just because some people fail to see that we shouldn't just water down the sport and try and manufacture a try on every set of six. "The history of the world is the history of the triumph of the heartless over the mindless." — Sir Humphrey Appleby. "If someone doesn't value evidence, what evidence are you going to provide to prove that they should value it? If someone doesn't value logic, what logical argument could you provide to show the importance of logic?" — Sam Harris Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sentoffagain2 Posted January 31, 2021 Share Posted January 31, 2021 24 minutes ago, Bedfordshire Bronco said: I agree with part of this but on the other hand....attacking plays have advanced too also rule changes like giving the winger the corner flag and the 40-20 kick etc... There is a decent argument for moving to 11 a side in my view. Not just to make it a more attacking game but financially I have been saying that 12 a side would be OK as the modern day loose forward is obsolete these days.With no proper scrums the number 9 can do the handling an old fashioned 13 did.In a squad of 28 players it would save clubs 7% in wages by dropping two loose forwards. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Damien Posted January 31, 2021 Share Posted January 31, 2021 10 hours ago, Big Picture said: I found exactly one report saying that they turned down an extension for "about the same £40m-a-year fee" which is a very odd statement. You see, the previous deal negotiated in 2015 covering the period from 2017 to 2021 was for 200 million £, a figure which could only work out to 40 million £ per year if it was for 5 years. Consequently that reported figure of 40 million £ per can not possibly be right. I'm still waiting for @Damiento provide a source for his claim that the figure in fact covered the six years from 2015 to 2021 but I'm not holding my breath. That would mean that it wiped out the payments for 2015 and 2016 from the original contract which I've now found out was for 152 million £ over 4 years, we don't seriously think that the well-connected RU lot would have agreed to that do we? They'd have been idiots to do that! Its covered extensively. The very link you provided talked of 6 years. Now you are into repeating things as often as you can to try and make it fact. That is after the changing of the goalposts that you have continually tried since your initial post. Its odd how out of the reams of articles about this you can only see the one you very selectively refer to. Maybe you should tell the Saracens CEO that he doesnt know what the TV deal was: Premiership Rugby’s current six-year deal with BT Sport is worth around £200m but Saracens chief executive Mitesh Velani believes that sum will pale by comparison to the next deal, with internet giants such as Amazon, Google and Facebook set to heavily influence how rugby is viewed. Online retail giants Amazon recently acquired Premier League football rights, paying £200m for a package of 20 live games. Rugby will not command anywhere near £10m per game, but financial expert Velani expects there to be a significant uplift. He told The Rugby Paper: “I think rugby is at a point of inflection at the moment where all the right noises are being made, and if you look at the six-year TV deal, which is a £200m deal with BT Sport, that was a 70 per cent increase on the previous one. https://www.therugbypaper.co.uk/all/domestic-club-rugby-union/30738/premiership-clubs-set-for-big-tv-cash-boost/ Or maybe the Premiership Rugby Commercial Director doesnt know what he is talking about: Premiership Rugby’s Commercial Director Dominic Hayes said: "This season we have given supporters more notice than ever before of the televised fixtures to ensure they can plan ahead. This was an important issue for us and we thank BT Sport for their co-operation to achieve this objective,” "This season is the start of a new six-year deal with BT Sport to broadcast Aviva Premiership Rugby live and after seeing the audience grow by 50% over the previous two campaigns we are delighted to be kicking off the new era in style.” https://www.newcastlefalcons.co.uk/news/story/early-televised-matches-confirmed-by-bt-sport You do realise this is a RL thread and a RL forum? I have no great desire to debate RU and post links for you because you cant use google and would rather ignore facts. RL compares well to RU and always has done. Geographic location has never mattered. The funny thing is you could have used various things to backup this argument, that you make on just about every thread, and chose about the one thing that doesn't back it up. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Big Picture Posted January 31, 2021 Share Posted January 31, 2021 7 hours ago, Damien said: Its covered extensively. The very link you provided talked of 6 years. Now you are into repeating things as often as you can to try and make it fact. That is after the changing of the goalposts that you have continually tried since your initial post. Its odd how out of the reams of articles about this you can only see the one you very selectively refer to. Maybe you should tell the Saracens CEO that he doesnt know what the TV deal was: Premiership Rugby’s current six-year deal with BT Sport is worth around £200m but Saracens chief executive Mitesh Velani believes that sum will pale by comparison to the next deal, with internet giants such as Amazon, Google and Facebook set to heavily influence how rugby is viewed. Online retail giants Amazon recently acquired Premier League football rights, paying £200m for a package of 20 live games. Rugby will not command anywhere near £10m per game, but financial expert Velani expects there to be a significant uplift. He told The Rugby Paper: “I think rugby is at a point of inflection at the moment where all the right noises are being made, and if you look at the six-year TV deal, which is a £200m deal with BT Sport, that was a 70 per cent increase on the previous one. https://www.therugbypaper.co.uk/all/domestic-club-rugby-union/30738/premiership-clubs-set-for-big-tv-cash-boost/ Or maybe the Premiership Rugby Commercial Director doesnt know what he is talking about: Premiership Rugby’s Commercial Director Dominic Hayes said: "This season we have given supporters more notice than ever before of the televised fixtures to ensure they can plan ahead. This was an important issue for us and we thank BT Sport for their co-operation to achieve this objective,” "This season is the start of a new six-year deal with BT Sport to broadcast Aviva Premiership Rugby live and after seeing the audience grow by 50% over the previous two campaigns we are delighted to be kicking off the new era in style.” https://www.newcastlefalcons.co.uk/news/story/early-televised-matches-confirmed-by-bt-sport You do realise this is a RL thread and a RL forum? I have no great desire to debate RU and post links for you because you cant use google and would rather ignore facts. RL compares well to RU and always has done. Geographic location has never mattered. The funny thing is you could have used various things to backup this argument, that you make on just about every thread, and chose about the one thing that doesn't back it up. I'm well aware that this is an RL thread on an RL forum thanks, but it wasn't me who claimed that SL ought to be getting the sort of money that the RU Premiership gets. I'm also aware that the report you linked claims that the 200 million £ was for six years but I dispute that as the RU guys would have been idiots to take such a deal. The reason is that this BBC report quotes The Daily Telegraph as stating that their previous deal for 2013-2017 was worth 152 million £ and that the subsequent contract was a four year deal covering 2017-2021. The simple math of the figures involved supports that view too. 152 million £ over four years is an average of 38 million £ per year, 200 million £ over six years would only average 33.333333 million £ per year, which is a decrease rather than an increase. It would only be an increase on their previous deal if it was over the four years from 2017-2021 (as would be the logical interpretation when its purpose was to extend their prior contract) which would be an increase of 31.57% which is well below the 70% claimed by Mitesh Vilani. Their latest three year deal for 110 million £ averages out to 36.666666 million £ a year, so it the last deal was really over six year it would be an increase in the rights value at a time when almost everyone else's rights are going down in value, so the idea that the 200 million £ contract was for six years simply isn't credible. I understand your desire that the 200 million £ be for six years rather than four as that makes it look like SL isn't as far behind, but the other reports which I found (and the financial math) say that it was for four years. Reporters who simply repeat what someone tells them without looking into it to check if their claims are true aren't good sources. Addendum: The Premiership Rugby site states that their salary cap "is linked directly to the central distributions to the clubs from Premiership Rugby". The numbers which I've found for the cap level during the years in question are as follows: 2014-15 5 million £ 2015-16 5.5 million £ 2017-18 6.5 million £ 2018-19 7 million £ 2019-20 7 million £ 2020-21 6.4 million £ These are more or less in proportion to the calculated averages which I gave above, thus they accord with my view that the 200 million £ of their previous contract with BT was for the four years from 2017-21. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HawkMan Posted January 31, 2021 Share Posted January 31, 2021 Sorry for this, but some perspective is needed. This is like the RL mouse and RU mouse each with a scrap of cheese in the corner of the kitchen arguing which scrap is bigger, while the soccer mouse devours the whole block of cheddar. EPL get 1 billion a year from Sky alone, not including BT ,or overseas etc. Divide 1 billion by 40 million and you get 25, or by 30 million and get 33.33. So Sky give football each year money that'll keep RU in business for 25 years and RL for 33.3 years, sad but true. So neither rugby code is exactly coining it in. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Griff Posted January 31, 2021 Share Posted January 31, 2021 15 hours ago, DC77 said: I didn’t follow RL growing up. I'm appalled. "We'll sell you a seat .... but you'll only need the edge of it!" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Damien Posted January 31, 2021 Share Posted January 31, 2021 1 hour ago, Big Picture said: Snip Sorry this is just just laughable and is nonsense consisting of arguments in bad faith and moving of the goalposts. It is irrelevant what you believe when the facts say different. You don't know better than the Saracens CEO and the Premiership Commercial Director, you know the guy who would have been involved in the deal. The Premier Rugby accounts say what you are trying to make out is wrong. Its there in black and white going back years. Again, as I have said previously, quite why you ignore the impact of Covid when it comes to the salary cap, as well as the decrease in income caused by the PE deal is beyond me but it shows you are arguing in very bad faith. These are the things that have been cited in every report on this. I am not interested in debating with someone who ignores the very evidence he asks for so am out. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Big Picture Posted January 31, 2021 Share Posted January 31, 2021 25 minutes ago, Damien said: Sorry this is just just laughable and is nonsense consisting of arguments in bad faith and moving of the goalposts. It is irrelevant what you believe when the facts say different. You don't know better than the Saracens CEO and the Premiership Commercial Director, you know the guy who would have been involved in the deal. The Premier Rugby accounts say what you are trying to make out is wrong. Its there in black and white going back years. Again, as I have said previously, quite why you ignore the impact of Covid when it comes to the salary cap, as well as the decrease in income caused by the PE deal is beyond me but it shows you are arguing in very bad faith. These are the things that have been cited in every report on this. I am not interested in debating with someone who ignores the very evidence he asks for so am out. I've ignored nothing, what I did was analyze the claims made. Simple math shows that the quoted figure only represented an increase if was over four years as the BBC report which I provided stated rather than the six years alleged in the later report. Their TV rights value going down when TV rights in general were rising but up again when TV rights in general are either stagnant or dropping might be credible in your eyes but it certainly isn't in mine. The math clearly suggests that the four year figure is correct and the six year figure is wrong. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Oldbear Posted January 31, 2021 Share Posted January 31, 2021 45 minutes ago, HawkMan said: Sorry for this, but some perspective is needed. This is like the RL mouse and RU mouse each with a scrap of cheese in the corner of the kitchen arguing which scrap is bigger, while the soccer mouse devours the whole block of cheddar. EPL get 1 billion a year from Sky alone, not including BT ,or overseas etc. Divide 1 billion by 40 million and you get 25, or by 30 million and get 33.33. So Sky give football each year money that'll keep RU in business for 25 years and RL for 33.3 years, sad but true. So neither rugby code is exactly coining it in. Someone finally gets it, from a financial perspective neither code of rugby is sitting pretty compared to soccer and North American sports. The biggest worry is that a TV sports networks become increasingly globalized there’s more chance that schedules will be filled by these sports, which after all are taking up so much of the TV companies budgets. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GUBRATS Posted January 31, 2021 Share Posted January 31, 2021 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DC77 Posted February 1, 2021 Share Posted February 1, 2021 19 hours ago, Bedfordshire Bronco said: I agree with part of this but on the other hand....attacking plays have advanced too also rule changes like giving the winger the corner flag and the 40-20 kick etc... There is a decent argument for moving to 11 a side in my view. Not just to make it a more attacking game but financially It sounds radical, but it’s a valid suggestion. Anything to free up more space to enable more of those eye catching runs. The number of players being an issue most definitely applies to RU. 30 players on a field when the players were regular sized was just about ok, not today when they are enormous. Its not just the runs though, I don’t see the same number of off the cuff plays. The game seemed to have a lot more risk then, more creativity with players trying different things. It’s more rigid, safe, attritional, a grind. The previously open English game has adopted far too much of the Aussie stuff. The last Aussie coach Wayne Bennett made England more competitive apparently, and far less of a good watch. He’d kill the sport stone dead here if his methods were widespread (as would José Mourinho in football). 19 hours ago, Dunbar said: There are more points scored in a game of Rugby League today than in the 80's and 90's. If we go to 11 aside and see scores like 40-30 almost every week then I think we would have lost something at the very core of the game... that attritional and physical element that has always been such a part of Rugby League. There are loads of great tries scored in modern day Rugby League... scored by skilful and athletic players. Just because some people fail to see that we shouldn't just water down the sport and try and manufacture a try on every set of six. It’s not about comparing the amount of points scored, but how the points are scored. Absolutely no chance are there even remotely near the same amount of long distance runs. There are far more close in scores, the type of scores that don’t generate headlines. Points doesn’t equate excitement (see basketball for validation of that...back and forth of samey, p-## easy scoring devoid of significance, unless it gets to the last minute and scores are close). It’s all about the manner of how the points are scored, as well as the non scoring stuff in between (there’s highlight reels of O’Driscoll in RU that doesn’t involve any scoring, likewise Ronaldinho in football). This off the cuff, creative stuff goes viral. Theres a German footballer called Miroslav Klose (bet few on here have heard of him). He’s the all time record goalscorer at the World Cup (tournament, not qualifying rounds) with 16 goals. He was a goal hanger who basically sat inside the six yard box and scored from 3 yards out. Statistically good, very very good, but instantly forgettable, hence generated no headlines. Ronaldo (whose record Klose took to the disgust of most), generated headlines due to the manner of his goals (and general play). There are so many player in RL (and indeed RU) who have the capacity to light up a game, but they can’t, not today. Sporadic moments yes, but not enough to grab the attention of the masses like those who were allowed to previously. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DC77 Posted February 1, 2021 Share Posted February 1, 2021 11 hours ago, Griff said: I'm appalled. Doesn’t really exist in Ireland. Wasn’t surrounded by RU people either what with it being a predominantly Protestant game in the North but the national team pulled you in. I can barely watch the national team now. It’s a complete grind. Look at Wales and France, two teams who were renowned for swashbuckling play. How the public in both places stomach what’s on show today is beyond me. If RU wasn’t deeply ingrained in the Welsh psyche Gatland would have killed it there. It’s all about being competitive, and unwatchable. It’s not ingrained in Australia, and it’s died as a result. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dunbar Posted February 1, 2021 Share Posted February 1, 2021 3 hours ago, DC77 said: It’s not about comparing the amount of points scored, but how the points are scored. Absolutely no chance are there even remotely near the same amount of long distance runs. There are far more close in scores, the type of scores that don’t generate headlines. Points doesn’t equate excitement (see basketball for validation of that...back and forth of samey, p-## easy scoring devoid of significance, unless it gets to the last minute and scores are close). It’s all about the manner of how the points are scored, as well as the non scoring stuff in between (there’s highlight reels of O’Driscoll in RU that doesn’t involve any scoring, likewise Ronaldinho in football). This off the cuff, creative stuff goes viral. Theres a German footballer called Miroslav Klose (bet few on here have heard of him). He’s the all time record goalscorer at the World Cup (tournament, not qualifying rounds) with 16 goals. He was a goal hanger who basically sat inside the six yard box and scored from 3 yards out. Statistically good, very very good, but instantly forgettable, hence generated no headlines. Ronaldo (whose record Klose took to the disgust of most), generated headlines due to the manner of his goals (and general play). There are so many player in RL (and indeed RU) who have the capacity to light up a game, but they can’t, not today. Sporadic moments yes, but not enough to grab the attention of the masses like those who were allowed to previously. I really don't know what sport you are watching. I just had a look at the top tries of 2020 in Super League and 8 of the 10 started inside the opposition's half. Then I had a look at the 1986 try of the season list and a couple wouldn't even be the best try in an average game of Rugby League these days (some were very good of course). Then I had a look at the NRL top try list for 2019 and 2020 and there were so many it was incredible. And the internet is awash with highlight reels of players like Papenhuyzen, Addo-Carr, Lattrel Mitchell and so many more. I was going to post these videos but I can see that you will never be convinced. I loved Rugby League in 80's and 90's and if I am being perfectly honest I probably preferred it to the game today. But a good proportion of this is the nostalgia in me... I recognise that today the players are faster, fitter and more skilled than ever and some of the plays they produce are exceptional. As a sport, I agree we don't showcase our best players and plays enough (in the UK anyway)... but they are there. "The history of the world is the history of the triumph of the heartless over the mindless." — Sir Humphrey Appleby. "If someone doesn't value evidence, what evidence are you going to provide to prove that they should value it? If someone doesn't value logic, what logical argument could you provide to show the importance of logic?" — Sam Harris Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dkw Posted February 1, 2021 Share Posted February 1, 2021 3 hours ago, DC77 said: It sounds radical, but it’s a valid suggestion. Anything to free up more space to enable more of those eye catching runs. The number of players being an issue most definitely applies to RU. 30 players on a field when the players were regular sized was just about ok, not today when they are enormous. Its not just the runs though, I don’t see the same number of off the cuff plays. The game seemed to have a lot more risk then, more creativity with players trying different things. It’s more rigid, safe, attritional, a grind. The previously open English game has adopted far too much of the Aussie stuff. The last Aussie coach Wayne Bennett made England more competitive apparently, and far less of a good watch. He’d kill the sport stone dead here if his methods were widespread (as would José Mourinho in football). It’s not about comparing the amount of points scored, but how the points are scored. Absolutely no chance are there even remotely near the same amount of long distance runs. There are far more close in scores, the type of scores that don’t generate headlines. Points doesn’t equate excitement (see basketball for validation of that...back and forth of samey, p-## easy scoring devoid of significance, unless it gets to the last minute and scores are close). It’s all about the manner of how the points are scored, as well as the non scoring stuff in between (there’s highlight reels of O’Driscoll in RU that doesn’t involve any scoring, likewise Ronaldinho in football). This off the cuff, creative stuff goes viral. Theres a German footballer called Miroslav Klose (bet few on here have heard of him). He’s the all time record goalscorer at the World Cup (tournament, not qualifying rounds) with 16 goals. He was a goal hanger who basically sat inside the six yard box and scored from 3 yards out. Statistically good, very very good, but instantly forgettable, hence generated no headlines. Ronaldo (whose record Klose took to the disgust of most), generated headlines due to the manner of his goals (and general play). There are so many player in RL (and indeed RU) who have the capacity to light up a game, but they can’t, not today. Sporadic moments yes, but not enough to grab the attention of the masses like those who were allowed to previously. I think your watching a different Rugby League, maybe in an alternate dimension? There were loads of long rangers last season, loads of incredible and spectacular finishes, especially by wingers. If anything those kind of finishes are exactly what we should be highlighting everywhere, social media especially. There was an NRL try last season when it was being shown in the US that was huge on social media and the sports programmes over there for example. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Taniwha Warriors Posted February 1, 2021 Share Posted February 1, 2021 8 hours ago, DC77 said: Doesn’t really exist in Ireland. Wasn’t surrounded by RU people either what with it being a predominantly Protestant game in the North but the national team pulled you in. I can barely watch the national team now. It’s a complete grind. Look at Wales and France, two teams who were renowned for swashbuckling play. How the public in both places stomach what’s on show today is beyond me. If RU wasn’t deeply ingrained in the Welsh psyche Gatland would have killed it there. It’s all about being competitive, and unwatchable. It’s not ingrained in Australia, and it’s died as a result. I'm not sure if your watching the same Welsh team that I been watching in the last couple of years with Gatland in charge. But some of the best Six Nations games in the last ten or so years involved the Welsh. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hela Wigmen Posted February 1, 2021 Share Posted February 1, 2021 There’s great tries scored, great kicks, ridiculous passes, bone shattering tackles and other bits of genuine star quality across Super League games. We as a sport, from clubs, to Super League to The RFL, have a real issue with content creation and knowing what to do with that content. I’ve never bought this quality argument. The game is jam packed with it. It’s different forms of quality to different eras and rather than appreciate what we’ve got, it’s the default setting to use this as a stick to beat the game with when things like average points scored hasn’t been affected negatively. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bedfordshire Bronco Posted February 1, 2021 Share Posted February 1, 2021 1 minute ago, Hela Wigmen said: There’s great tries scored, great kicks, ridiculous passes, bone shattering tackles and other bits of genuine star quality across Super League games. We as a sport, from clubs, to Super League to The RFL, have a real issue with content creation and knowing what to do with that content. I’ve never bought this quality argument. The game is jam packed with it. It’s different forms of quality to different eras and rather than appreciate what we’ve got, it’s the default setting to use this as a stick to beat the game with when things like average points scored hasn’t been affected negatively. Yes I agree the 'quality' aspect is over egged I've seen some superbly entertaining thrillers with Broncos in the Championship. The speed and 'standard' was no where near SL but it didn't need to be Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fighting irish Posted February 1, 2021 Share Posted February 1, 2021 On 31/01/2021 at 09:42, Dunbar said: There are more points scored in a game of Rugby League today than in the 80's and 90's. If we go to 11 aside and see scores like 40-30 almost every week then I think we would have lost something at the very core of the game... that attritional and physical element that has always been such a part of Rugby League. There are loads of great tries scored in modern day Rugby League... scored by skilful and athletic players. Just because some people fail to see that we shouldn't just water down the sport and try and manufacture a try on every set of six. I agree with this D. When I watch RaRa sevens (not often) it feels (and looks) like touch football. Let's not go down that route please? What we've got (the speed, intensity and physicality) is pretty amazing. Last season (with the rule changes) was often breathtaking. I can't wait for this year to kick off and see what Mr Elstone can do with the promotional side of things. Also, bring on the World Cup. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DC77 Posted February 1, 2021 Share Posted February 1, 2021 4 hours ago, Hela Wigmen said: There’s great tries scored, great kicks, ridiculous passes, bone shattering tackles and other bits of genuine star quality across Super League games. We as a sport, from clubs, to Super League to The RFL, have a real issue with content creation and knowing what to do with that content. I’ve never bought this quality argument. The game is jam packed with it. It’s different forms of quality to different eras and rather than appreciate what we’ve got, it’s the default setting to use this as a stick to beat the game with when things like average points scored hasn’t been affected negatively. The average points scored is irrelevant. It could have gone up 10 points in the last 10 years but that’s not what matters. Again, it’s the manner of how the points are scored that matters most when generating headlines. As I said, Miroslav Klose, the all time record World Cup goalscorer with 16 goals, is almost a complete unknown to the masses as he was a goal poacher which does not generate any headlines. Ronaldo, the man whose record he took, became known due to the manner of his goals. Jonah Lomu, he became an overnight sensation because of the manner of his scores, scores he could not reproduce if he were playing today, likewise Hanley, Offiah, Robinson and co. Regarding your overall point, you are a RL devotee, you are already sold on it regardless. If there are less eye catching runs, or off the cuff plays, and more physical, attritional stuff, wrestling, tighter better organised defences and less wide open space for attacking play, you will be there to watch it. The issue is creating interest outside the RL bubble. It once did have star names (ie. names known outside the RL bubble), as attacking players were really allowed to shine. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dunbar Posted February 1, 2021 Share Posted February 1, 2021 11 minutes ago, DC77 said: Jonah Lomu, he became an overnight sensation because of the manner of his scores, scores he could not reproduce if he were playing today, likewise Hanley, Offiah, Robinson and co. If Josh Addo-Carr and Miaka Sivo (for example) can score tries like these today, why would Hanley, Offiah and Robinson not be able to? "The history of the world is the history of the triumph of the heartless over the mindless." — Sir Humphrey Appleby. "If someone doesn't value evidence, what evidence are you going to provide to prove that they should value it? If someone doesn't value logic, what logical argument could you provide to show the importance of logic?" — Sam Harris Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hela Wigmen Posted February 1, 2021 Share Posted February 1, 2021 20 minutes ago, DC77 said: The average points scored is irrelevant. It could have gone up 10 points in the last 10 years but that’s not what matters. Again, it’s the manner of how the points are scored that matters most when generating headlines. As I said, Miroslav Klose, the all time record World Cup goalscorer with 16 goals, is almost a complete unknown to the masses as he was a goal poacher which does not generate any headlines. Ronaldo, the man whose record he took, became known due to the manner of his goals. Jonah Lomu, he became an overnight sensation because of the manner of his scores, scores he could not reproduce if he were playing today, likewise Hanley, Offiah, Robinson and co. Regarding your overall point, you are a RL devotee, you are already sold on it regardless. If there are less eye catching runs, or off the cuff plays, and more physical, attritional stuff, wrestling, tighter better organised defences and less wide open space for attacking play, you will be there to watch it. The issue is creating interest outside the RL bubble. It once did have star names (ie. names known outside the RL bubble), as attacking players were really allowed to shine. There’s clutching at straws and then there’s this as a counter argument. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hela Wigmen Posted February 1, 2021 Share Posted February 1, 2021 14 minutes ago, Dunbar said: If Josh Addo-Carr and Miaka Sivo (for example) can score tries like these today, why would Hanley, Offiah and Robinson not be able to? It’s an awful, awful argument and he’s backed my point up. There’s some superb tries scored. Regan Grace’s hat trick vs Leeds last year was a case in point. I’m still shocked seeing a replay when I’m at Saints when Tommy Makinson dives in at the corner. The same for Tom Johnstone and the various other wingers now acrobatically diving in the corners. Some of the stuff the likes of Jackson Hastings, Aidan Sezer and Jake Connor can do with a ball in hand or on their foot is exceptional. The content is there. That’s before your funnies or oddities. Except we don’t harness that content and push it out across the channels. The whole “we had players that average people had heard of” argument is based off a very different era. Fame, in its many guises, and how you get it, is very different from the 90’s and we haven’t evolved with technology in the way others have and we’re paying for it now. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dunbar Posted February 1, 2021 Share Posted February 1, 2021 Oh, and here is a paste of the last answer I gave to someone who said all the tries these days come from right at the tryline. .......... In the NRL, 62% of tries scored in 2019 came from within the 20 and so 38% 'other'. This means that just under 4 out of every 10 tries are scored from outside the 20 metre line of the opposition. As for individual players, St George Illawarra fullback Matt Dufty has scored 8 tries in 2019 which started further than 40 metres away from the line with Ryan Papenhuyzen on 7 and Josh Addo-Carr with 6. "The history of the world is the history of the triumph of the heartless over the mindless." — Sir Humphrey Appleby. "If someone doesn't value evidence, what evidence are you going to provide to prove that they should value it? If someone doesn't value logic, what logical argument could you provide to show the importance of logic?" — Sam Harris Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GUBRATS Posted February 1, 2021 Share Posted February 1, 2021 This ' public fame ' thing is from a very different time , when essentially we had 2 channels showing sport , so obviously our ' stars ' were on show , having 90% of our sport now behind a paywall in a sea of sport from the world over makes it much different , we desperately need to win a WC , when that will happen , I'm not sure if I'll ever see it Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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