Workington Sports Village

[rockerlad]

18 minutes ago, dkw said:

I wonder if that Maryport firm would be the supplier for the pitch?

surley it would make sense? got to keep the money local and use as many local firms as possible??

[dkw]

39 minutes ago, rockerlad said:

surley it would make sense? got to keep the money local and use as many local firms as possible??

Would hope so, they've built pitches at top stadiums round the world and are one of the best.

[Derwent Parker]

7 hours ago, David69 said:

A question to ask? Was the pitch going to be  3g or 4g etc not grass.?they say it for community use too. Its ok for rugby league to play on as newcastle and widnes etc can play on it. But if the reds has aspirations to get in football league, you carn't have synthetic pitches must be grass.

Yes its got to be grass for soccer - cant have any of the prima donnas hurting themselves when they are diving and rolling around pretending to be hurt!

Famous Quote "Football Is 90 Minutes Pretending You Are Hurt, Rugby Is 80 Minutes Pretending You Re Not"

[Derwent Parker]

8 hours ago, David69 said:

A question to ask? Was the pitch going to be  3g or 4g etc not grass.?they say it for community use too. Its ok for rugby league to play on as newcastle and widnes etc can play on it. But if the reds has aspirations to get in football league, you carn't have synthetic pitches must be grass.

That's a bit of a daft statement that "Its ok for rugby league to play on artificial. But not soccer"? when you think about the nature of both games.

Plus you have to be very, very careful about having aspirations on here or you will be shot down by your fellow reds fan DTTRR who started throwing around facts from 25 year ago about bankruptcy etc, cos we are only a small town with no fans, no money ,no population, not close to big city's and no business etc.

That was when i said Town only need 2 promotion to reach top league and reds need 8 promotions to do same.?

However in my opinion its like a breath of fresh air hearing you have a bit of ambition!

[Death to the Rah Rah's]

4 hours ago, Derwent Parker said:

That's a bit of a daft statement that "Its ok for rugby league to play on artificial. But not soccer"? when you think about the nature of both games.

Plus you have to be very, very careful about having aspirations on here or you will be shot down by your fellow reds fan DTTRR who started throwing around facts from 25 year ago about bankruptcy etc, cos we are only a small town with no fans, no money ,no population, not close to big city's and no business etc.

That was when i said Town only need 2 promotion to reach top league and reds need 8 promotions to do same.?

However in my opinion its like a breath of fresh air hearing you have a bit of ambition!

What’s with the personal attacks?

I think this is the third time you’ve had a pop, so for the record  I think you need to actually try reading my previous posts, if you’re struggling ask someone to read them for you.

For the purposes of clarification I’ll try and make this as easy as possible for you to follow:

A) I am an RL fan, I have attended Town games since the mid-70s.

B) I do not attend Reds matches on a regular basis, although I do follow their results and there’s is one of the first results I look for as I want them to do well.

.....are you still following???

C) The clue is in the name ‘TotalRLforum’ - so this means that supporters have the opportunity to debate with their fellow RL fans on many subjects. Everyone is entitled to an opinion, they don’t all have to agree with yours Derwent Parker.

D) location of the ground, I’ll be totally honest here, I couldn’t give a rats ###### whether it’s built at Derwent Park or Borough Park, both grounds are sad tired old stadiums, Derwent Park is marginally better than Borough Park, but only because it has a grandstand.

E) ambition - don’t make me laugh, there’s nothing I would like more than to eat my words about the capacity of the new stadium, but I’ll stand by what I’ve previously said in that 5,000 is more than ample for Allerdale, but if you want a 10,000 capacity stadium can I suggest you start a crowd funding page to raise the difference in construction costs.

F) Facts - you highlight me stating facts, well actually facts are a useful tool, for example, it’s a fact that neither Town or Reds have regularly pulled in average crowds of over 5,000 for over 50 years, probably closer to 60 years, so based on that analogy a 5,000 ish capacity would work for the area.

it’s a fact that very few professional sports clubs pull in more than 2-3% of the local Population to watch their games.

Fact - in the last 40 years Town have spent 3 seasons in the top division, Reds have been lower league semi - pro since 1978.

Fact - Town’s last dalliance with success did result in the club going bankrupt, same with Whitehaven and also Barrow, try asking yourself why that was?

It would be superb to see Town in Superleague and Reds in the conference but both clubs would require huge personal investment as neither can generate the revenue through the turnstiles, plus there isn’t the industry locally for large sponsorship deals. 
 

but hey, don’t let facts spoil a good debate eh marra !

[Joe Aitcheson]

There were a few factors which caused Town to go into administration after relegation from Superleague in 1996, but as I recall the biggest was the decision by that giant of the game, little Mo Lindsay, to reduce the parachute payment just before the end of the 96 season from £850k (the full annual RFL payment) to just £100k, when it looked certain that we (and not his beloved PSG) would finish bottom. That resulting shortfall was the straw that broke the camel’s back. Fact.

[Derwent Parker]

3 minutes ago, Joe Aitcheson said:

There were a few factors which caused Town to go into administration after relegation from Superleague in 1996, but as I recall the biggest was the decision by that giant of the game, little Mo Lindsay, to reduce the parachute payment just before the end of the 96 season from £850k (the full annual RFL payment) to just £100k, when it looked certain that we (and not his beloved PSG) would finish bottom. That resulting shortfall was the straw that broke the camel’s back. Fact.

Correct - the only team ever not to get Parachute payment.  Meaning town had to lose all the players that year.

Something that has never happened since.

[Davo5]

22 hours ago, dkw said:

Would hope so, they've built pitches at top stadiums round the world and are one of the best.

Might still have some fire damaged stock going cheap

[Derwent Parker]

1 hour ago, Davo5 said:

Might still have some fire damaged stock going cheap

No - dont give them ideas - we are already aiming low compared to what we were promised

[Davo5]

9 minutes ago, Derwent Parker said:

No - dont give them ideas - we are already aiming low compared to what we were promised

Aiming low or merely in touch with reality ?

Town like Haven & Barrow have no chance of ever reaching Superleague they struggle to compete in the Championship and with the likelihood of central funding cuts it will be a huge ask to merely survive so a new 5000 stadium with a modern multifunctional Grandstand is more than enough.

Most new build small stadiums consist of 1 main stand with semi permanent stands on the other 3 sides which can if needed be expanded,I believe FC United’s ground alone cost £6 million but bigger builds like York & Wimbledon were in the region of £30-40 million which far exceeds the available budget.

[Derwent]

4 hours ago, Joe Aitcheson said:

There were a few factors which caused Town to go into administration after relegation from Superleague in 1996, but as I recall the biggest was the decision by that giant of the game, little Mo Lindsay, to reduce the parachute payment just before the end of the 96 season from £850k (the full annual RFL payment) to just £100k, when it looked certain that we (and not his beloved PSG) would finish bottom. That resulting shortfall was the straw that broke the camel’s back. Fact.

Correct Joe, plus the fact that in those days player contracts weren’t declared void after relegation, which they are now. So Town were left with SL sized contracts to pay without any SL income.

[ivans82]

On 08/03/2021 at 17:24, Derwent said:

Correct Joe, plus the fact that in those days player contracts weren’t declared void after relegation, which they are now. So Town were left with SL sized contracts to pay without any SL income.

Always remember Lindsay was pictured grinning from ear to ear when Paris got that very dodgy win on Sky to leapfrog Town , He ran the RL at that time and just happened to fly over to France for that vital match , probably just ensure He got the "correct" result !

[Death to the Rah Rah's]

1 hour ago, ivans82 said:

Always remember Lindsay was pictured grinning from ear to ear when Paris got that very dodgy win on Sky to leapfrog Town , He ran the RL at that time and just happened to fly over to France for that vital match , probably just ensure He got the "correct" result !

It was more than one defeat that got the club relegated from Superleague !

With the benefit of hindsight Town and Haven should have merged at that point and the RFL should have stuck to their guns and forced through some of the mergers and stopped promotion and relegation for a few years to allow the concept to bed in and clubs to grow.

With time to develop the club without the fear of relegation, Cumbria might still have a side in the top division, but that ship has permanently sailed ow, so we will never know !

We all know why it was rushed through, the clubs had pretty much bankrupted themselves following Wigan's move into full time rugby and Mo Lindsey knew that. Our own Chair at the time Kevan Gorge was a director of the RFL at that time and he knew the game couldn't sustain full time players without radical change. 

Oldham, Town, Sheffield even London who were averaging good crowds at Charlton have never really recovered since Super League was born. 

Has it improved for the better ....well that's open to conjecture and opinions will be influenced by age as we all have a romantic view of the game and star players we remember from our youth 

[Derwent Parker]

58 minutes ago, Death to the Rah Rah's said:

It was more than one defeat that got the club relegated from Superleague !

With the benefit of hindsight Town and Haven should have merged at that point and the RFL should have stuck to their guns and forced through some of the mergers and stopped promotion and relegation for a few years to allow the concept to bed in and clubs to grow.

With time to develop the club without the fear of relegation, Cumbria might still have a side in the top division, but that ship has permanently sailed ow, so we will never know !

We all know why it was rushed through, the clubs had pretty much bankrupted themselves following Wigan's move into full time rugby and Mo Lindsey knew that. Our own Chair at the time Kevan Gorge was a director of the RFL at that time and he knew the game couldn't sustain full time players without radical change. 

Oldham, Town, Sheffield even London who were averaging good crowds at Charlton have never really recovered since Super League was born. 

Has it improved for the better ....well that's open to conjecture and opinions will be influenced by age as we all have a romantic view of the game and star players we remember from our youth 

Merging teams [in UK at least] does not work

1997 - Carlisle merged with Barrow - all that happened was we lost Carlisle

1999 - Gateshead merged with Hull - all that happened was Gateshead started up again.

1999 - Sheffield merged with Huddersfield - all that happened was Sheffield started up again.

Do you think if Whitehaven and Workington merged one would be permanently guaranteed super league and the other would start back up again?

[Death to the Rah Rah's]

31 minutes ago, Derwent Parker said:

Merging teams [in UK at least] does not work

1997 - Carlisle merged with Barrow - all that happened was we lost Carlisle

1999 - Gateshead merged with Hull - all that happened was Gateshead started up again.

1999 - Sheffield merged with Huddersfield - all that happened was Sheffield started up again.

Do you think if Whitehaven and Workington merged one would be permanently guaranteed super league and the other would start back up again?

none of the above were mergers as a result of the initial super league proposal and in all cases those mergers were pushed through because Carlisle, Gateshead and to a lesser extent Sheffield were unsustainable without financial backers

[Derwent Parker]

28 minutes ago, Death to the Rah Rah's said:

none of the above were mergers as a result of the initial super league proposal and in all cases those mergers were pushed through because Carlisle, Gateshead and to a lesser extent Sheffield were unsustainable without financial backers

Which mergers mergers were part of the initial super league proposal?

[Death to the Rah Rah's]

42 minutes ago, Derwent Parker said:

Which mergers mergers were part of the initial super league proposal?

Here’s an article from 1994 highlighting the financial problems with the game, nearly 30 years later nothing much has changed
 

https://www.independent.co.uk/sport/rugby-league-outdated-game-set-for-radical-changes-1386873.html

[dkw]

3 hours ago, ivans82 said:

Always remember Lindsay was pictured grinning from ear to ear when Paris got that very dodgy win on Sky to leapfrog Town , He ran the RL at that time and just happened to fly over to France for that vital match , probably just ensure He got the "correct" result !

He also helped Paris by sending coaches and players there, some of whom were supposed to sign for us.

[Joe Aitcheson]

Yes DKW.....Elias Payot, the PNG international hooker for one.

[dkw]

10 hours ago, Joe Aitcheson said:

Yes DKW.....Elias Payot, the PNG international hooker for one.

Yeah thats the one we heard about, there were a few others too apparently.

[Derwent]

2 hours ago, dkw said:

Yeah thats the one we heard about, there were a few others too apparently.

I hope they found those 2 Samoans who went missing.....

[Death to the Rah Rah's]

8 hours ago, Derwent said:

I hope they found those 2 Samoans who went missing.....

They were Tongans 

[Billy Bob]

I am a Haven fan, and hope Town get all they wish for from the new proposed stadium. Some years ago I was in the company of Leigh,s chairman and he informed me that he regretted being involved with a shared stadium for the following reasons.

Leigh,s stadium at the time was a local council facility and was a shared sports ground, the local council managed the stadium and clubs that used the stadium and paid a fee accordingly.

Consequently the Council or their appointed management provider manages the running of the stadium, what services do they provide ? catering on match days ? sales of drink ? cleaning, repairs & maintenance, grass cutting, marking out the playing pitches, use of electric, gas, water etc, etc, collecting all money on match days and season tickets. after deducting their costs, the balance is handed over, for this purpose lets say Town.

Staying at Derwent Park would leave the destiny of the club in the Towns directors hands, controlling all the sales and expenditure to Towns benefit, hiring staff to provide match day services bar sales, hospitality, turnstile collection, stewards, ground maintenance, etc, most of these duties being carried out by loyal fans at little or no cost, (far more cost effective than the council) providing maximum revenue to Town.

Using a shared facility the Management provider would buy all the bar stock, food, etc, in order control stock and sales.

Why leave Derwent Park ? a perfect good ground better than most clubs the RLFC. 

Ask what as the lease holder or the Council, or Developers want to do with this valuable site, and you may find why they want Town to re-locate.

   A lot to consider and sort out, before making a jump from the safety of Derwent Park into the unknown.

Best Regards

Rugby Fan.

 

 

 

[Hopping Mad]

On 11/03/2021 at 16:51, Derwent Parker said:

Which mergers mergers were part of the initial super league proposal?

Here's the full list (courtesy of Dave Hadfield and The Independent):

Other Super League clubs will be formed by amalgamations, many of them cutting across a century of fierce local rivalry. The projected make-up of the League is this: Wigan; St Helens; Leeds; Calder (a merger of the Castleford, Wakefield and Featherstone clubs); London Broncos; Cumbria (an amalgamation of the county's four clubs); Cheshire (formed by merging Widnes and Warrington); Toulouse; Paris (or two other French cities, if that fits in better with the plans of Jacques Fouroux); Manchester (a combination of Salford and Oldham); Halifax (although there remains a possibility of their joining forces with Huddersfield or Bradford Northern); Bradford Northern by themselves; South Yorkshire (Sheffield Eagles and Doncaster); and Humberside (Hull and Hull KR).

Super League: Wigan, St Helens, Leeds, Calder (amalgamation of Castleford, Wakefield and Featherstone), London Broncos, Cumbria, Cheshire (Widnes and Warrington), Toulouse, Paris, Manchester (Salford and Oldham), Halifax, Bradford Northern, South Yorkshire (Sheffield Eagles and Doncaster), Humberside (Hull and Hull KR).

British First Division: Cardiff, Bramley, Leigh, Highfield, Hunslet, Batley, Keighley, Swinton, Huddersfield, Rochdale, Ryedale, Dewsbury.

https://www.independent.co.uk/sport/the-revolution-starts-here-1614896.html

[Mr Frisky]

With Englands warm up games announced today, and with our world cup dream long gone, i just hope someone from Town is on the phone trying to get a warm up game arranged just prior to the world cup down to DP.

How great would it be to see say a European team play (Scotland etc) a pacific island nation under lights at DP in front of a 6 or 7k crowd or more for one last time? - and for West Cumbria probably the last top rep game ever.

Come on Town make the call - just think of the bar money alone...