Man of Kent Posted February 3, 2021 Share Posted February 3, 2021 New episode of the Progressive Rugby League podcast featuring The Guardian's Jonathan Liew. Haven't had a chance to listen yet but no doubt it'll be worth it. https://player.whooshkaa.com/episode/786569 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Damien Posted February 3, 2021 Share Posted February 3, 2021 5 minutes ago, Man of Kent said: New episode of the Progressive Rugby League podcast featuring The Guardian's Jonathan Liew. Haven't had a chance to listen yet but no doubt it'll be worth it. https://player.whooshkaa.com/episode/786569 Liew is always very complimentary towards Rugby League and has written some great stuff so it should certainly be worth a listen, thanks. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Man of Kent Posted February 3, 2021 Author Share Posted February 3, 2021 Blimey. He’s against faddy expansion teams and favours a return to winter. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dkw Posted February 4, 2021 Share Posted February 4, 2021 12 hours ago, Man of Kent said: Blimey. He’s against faddy expansion teams and favours a return to winter. Then he is an idiot. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Man of Kent Posted February 4, 2021 Author Share Posted February 4, 2021 1 minute ago, dkw said: Then he is an idiot. Clearly not. I don’t agree with winter rugby but from a media POV he has a point. A few on here would do well to listen to his views on the heartland/expansion debate. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
unapologetic pedant Posted February 4, 2021 Share Posted February 4, 2021 RU have always had those bull-necked forwards, particularly in South Africa. Don`t think I`d describe them as "superhumans". More like something from Doomwatch. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Harry Stottle Posted February 4, 2021 Share Posted February 4, 2021 1 hour ago, dkw said: Then he is an idiot. In my expierience dk Summer Rugby has not been kind to the community game at any level, open age, youth and junior I argued with fellow club officials when it was mooted the amatuer game was going to go to summer that there would be to many other things and pressure from others for all the player's to do that do not present themselves in summer, i.e. Holidays, her indoors wanting to do other things while the sun shines, family days out, Weddings, Stag do's, etc etc, even spectator numbers dropped off. PS, I would see from my house all the kids training in winter at the local Union club, moreso than at the League clubs in summer. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dkw Posted February 4, 2021 Share Posted February 4, 2021 3 hours ago, Man of Kent said: Clearly not. I don’t agree with winter rugby but from a media POV he has a point. A few on here would do well to listen to his views on the heartland/expansion debate. Going back to winter will destroy the sport. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Man of Kent Posted February 4, 2021 Author Share Posted February 4, 2021 4 hours ago, dkw said: Going back to winter will destroy the sport. Why? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Big Picture Posted February 4, 2021 Share Posted February 4, 2021 I noticed that he said that RL has "cut through" (which I take to mean market penetration) in London but only for big events. This implies that for a London pro club to succeed, its' matches would have to be seen as big events. The Broncos' crowds in 1997 would seem to support this too: they averaged 4,941 at home in SL compared to 8,196 in the World Club Championship series. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
whatmichaelsays Posted February 4, 2021 Share Posted February 4, 2021 12 minutes ago, Big Picture said: I noticed that he said that RL has "cut through" (which I take to mean market penetration) in London but only for big events. This implies that for a London pro club to succeed, its' matches would have to be seen as big events. The Broncos' crowds in 1997 would seem to support this too: they averaged 4,941 at home in SL compared to 8,196 in the World Club Championship series. I think that makes sense when you consider that London is just a much more competitive leisure market than any city in the UK and, to be honest, probably Europe as well. Londoners have more choices than Castlefordians when it comes to finding something to do on a Sunday afternoon. London's population is also much more transient and diverse, so that 'community' identity is less defined than it is in areas where the RL club is much more embeded in the community (eg, why Castleford has the highest % of population attendance). So yes, it stands to reason that those clubs might have a more 'casual' audience-base that might be inclined to attend fewer, but bigger events. A lot of the ideas that crop up on here seem to be challenged by saying "yeah, but how does that sell season tickets?", but season tickets doesn't always have to be the end goal. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Damien Posted February 4, 2021 Share Posted February 4, 2021 That was a really good listen. His remarks about the media and the gatekeepers to the media are really interesting, especially coming from someone that would know. When he talks about the media and establishment and how RU matters more to more powerful people in the country and how they look out for it are quite apt, especially when you look at the grants RU has received through Covid. Whilst remarks like this are often dismissed as RL fans having a chip on their shoulder they certainly cant be dismissed as such when they come from a well spoken, middle class journalist from West London. It was also interesting to hear his view on events in London and internationals because they echo what people have been saying on here for years. They are what galvanise the wider publics interest and transcend the sport and he rightly highlights that. Liew certainly understands the issues that the game faces and what needs to be done if the game wishes to hit a wider audience. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Futtocks Posted February 4, 2021 Share Posted February 4, 2021 On 03/02/2021 at 19:46, Man of Kent said: Blimey. He’s against faddy expansion teams and favours a return to winter. He's an articulate and insightful journalist, but I disagree with both of these points. Let me never fall into the vulgar mistake of dreaming that I am persecuted whenever I am contradicted. Ralph Waldo Emerson Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dunbar Posted February 4, 2021 Share Posted February 4, 2021 4 hours ago, whatmichaelsays said: London's population is also much more transient and diverse, so that 'community' identity is less defined than it is in areas where the RL club is much more embeded in the community Can I ask how you have come to this conclusion? "The history of the world is the history of the triumph of the heartless over the mindless." — Sir Humphrey Appleby. "If someone doesn't value evidence, what evidence are you going to provide to prove that they should value it? If someone doesn't value logic, what logical argument could you provide to show the importance of logic?" — Sam Harris Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hello Posted February 4, 2021 Share Posted February 4, 2021 These flippin "faddy" expansion teams with their 9000 plus crowds eh? Terrible for the game. We should obviously stick to the well-established tried and trusted teams with their slowly declining somewhere between 500 and 3000 fans a game lol Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
whatmichaelsays Posted February 5, 2021 Share Posted February 5, 2021 10 hours ago, Dunbar said: Can I ask how you have come to this conclusion? "Less defined" might be the wrong term, but it's certainly different. When you have a city made up of people who have been pulled in from all over the country / world, that community identity is very different that it is for a town where people are born, live and die in the same place. Diverse cities have diverse interests - they don't identify or rally around certain causes in the same way that the people of Castleford may do with the Tigers. I lived in London for four years and I used to go to about six or seven Fulham games a season - I lived in Acton, the football was better than QPR or Brentford and tickets were easy to get - but I wouldn't buy a season ticket because a) there was a lot of other stuff to do and b) in still a Leeds United fan. It's not unfair to say that people in London might therefore be a bit more discerning about what they pay to watch than your "typical" RL fan, where the the RL club is not only the community focal point, but also where it holds a large proportion of the market share as far as leisure is concerned. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gingerjon Posted February 5, 2021 Share Posted February 5, 2021 12 hours ago, Futtocks said: He's an articulate and insightful journalist, but I disagree with both of these points. This is a genuine question as I don't know the answer. Assume we do return to winter. How many of our grounds have drainage/heating required to ensure that no game is called off due to an unsuitable pitch? And that's before it becoming even more of a requirement that all grounds should have floodlights stronger than a handful of candles. Build a man a fire, and he'll be warm for a day. Set a man on fire, and he'll be warm for the rest of his life. (Terry Pratchett) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kirmonds pouch Posted February 5, 2021 Share Posted February 5, 2021 On 04/02/2021 at 08:26, dkw said: Then he is an idiot. He's spot on about the former, wrong about the latter in my opinion. The only idiot here is the person who can't accept the opinions of others. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Whippet13 Posted February 5, 2021 Share Posted February 5, 2021 24 minutes ago, gingerjon said: This is a genuine question as I don't know the answer. Assume we do return to winter. How many of our grounds have drainage/heating required to ensure that no game is called off due to an unsuitable pitch? And that's before it becoming even more of a requirement that all grounds should have floodlights stronger than a handful of candles. Plus: Numerous clubs ground sharing with soccer teams would create fixture chaos and pitch problems. The RLWC would mean a 6 week suspension of SL games in Oct/Nov - Sky aren't going to run with that. Similar problems with tier 1 test series / tournaments involving England. Profitable events like Magic would become economically unviable played in winter. RL is a great summer filler for Sky, broadcast slots would be even more marginalised against soccer in winter. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Harry Stottle Posted February 5, 2021 Share Posted February 5, 2021 2 minutes ago, Whippet13 said: Similar problems with tier 1 test series / tournaments involving England. But on the plus side, back to proper tours, with test series and club games. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tommygilf Posted February 5, 2021 Share Posted February 5, 2021 8 minutes ago, Harry Stottle said: But on the plus side, back to proper tours, with test series and club games. This from the same clubs that won't release more than 3 players each for 1 mid season international game now? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gingerjon Posted February 5, 2021 Share Posted February 5, 2021 16 minutes ago, Harry Stottle said: But on the plus side, back to proper tours, with test series and club games. File under: things that will never happen now but were great when people who are old now were younger. Build a man a fire, and he'll be warm for a day. Set a man on fire, and he'll be warm for the rest of his life. (Terry Pratchett) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Big Picture Posted February 5, 2021 Share Posted February 5, 2021 1 hour ago, gingerjon said: File under: things that will never happen now but were great when people who are old now were younger. Or under: things which never happen in major world sports, only in small sports played in just a handful of countries. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Damien Posted February 5, 2021 Share Posted February 5, 2021 1 hour ago, Harry Stottle said: But on the plus side, back to proper tours, with test series and club games. Given the way the NRL now view international Rugby League those days are gone, even if we returned to winter. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dkw Posted February 5, 2021 Share Posted February 5, 2021 2 hours ago, Kirmonds pouch said: He's spot on about the former, wrong about the latter in my opinion. The only idiot here is the person who can't accept the opinions of others. So you're calling me an idiot because I think he's an idiot....hmmm....does that make you an idiot then? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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