Harry Stottle Posted February 5, 2021 Share Posted February 5, 2021 7 hours ago, gingerjon said: File under: things that will never happen now but were great when people who are old now were younger. Yes I enjoyed going on a proper tour with GB in the 90's, I would enjoy just as much now as I did then, I bet you were looking forward to the cancelled Aussie tour here, now tell the truth, it would be the same test series just with more games against the clubs, and if you suggest to me that the younger fans who have never been subjected to these tours and being supporters of our clubs who would get to play the Aus National team would not relish it I woukd say you are mistaken. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gingerjon Posted February 5, 2021 Share Posted February 5, 2021 50 minutes ago, Harry Stottle said: Yes I enjoyed going on a proper tour with GB in the 90's, I would enjoy just as much now as I did then, I bet you were looking forward to the cancelled Aussie tour here, now tell the truth, it would be the same test series just with more games against the clubs, and if you suggest to me that the younger fans who have never been subjected to these tours and being supporters of our clubs who would get to play the Aus National team would not relish it I woukd say you are mistaken. What I think is irrelevant. Firstly because I'm old. Secondly because those tours aren't coming back. Build a man a fire, and he'll be warm for a day. Set a man on fire, and he'll be warm for the rest of his life. (Terry Pratchett) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dr Tim Whatley Posted February 5, 2021 Share Posted February 5, 2021 Just finished listening to the podcast; very enjoyable. He didn't say we should go back to winter per se - his point was more that RL moving to summer was devised as a way of making hay while football wasn't on. However, since then football has become pretty much a 12-month concern and if anything summer is now too busy for RL to be heard. Got the sense he was thinking on the hop and he even said "I think I've just convinced myself of a return to winter RL" as if to say "not sure how that happened" He's a big advocate of the "create an event and the crowds will come " thinking, using big internationals in London as an example. Also found myself nodding along hopefully when he suggested that it is possible - just possible - the RLWC will be the first big event able to run 'normally'. Euros likely to have reduced crowds, Wimbledon too, Olympics possibly binned altogether...the sporting public could be gagging for a major international comp come October. Good to have such a prominent journalist as a friend of the game. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Liverpool Rover Posted February 6, 2021 Share Posted February 6, 2021 It has been a summer pro sport for too long to go back now and there has been a whole generation who have been brought up on summer RL. Attendances at Thursday night games are bad enough now ad would be worse in the middle of winter. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Harry Stottle Posted February 7, 2021 Share Posted February 7, 2021 13 hours ago, Liverpool Rover said: It has been a summer pro sport for too long to go back now and there has been a whole generation who have been brought up on summer RL. Attendances at Thursday night games are bad enough now ad would be worse in the middle of winter. As I stated earlier summer rugby seems to having an adverse effect on the amatuer side of the sport there are simply to many other things to do that are much less prevalent through the winter months, all those with little or no experience of the community game can't it seems really grasp just how much it is losing ground in both popularity and participation. Yes off course people will point to a whole host of other attractions that are attention grabbers but they are not as widespread and as common in the winter months, a return to winter for the amatuer side of the sport may not work but it would not present as many alternatives than summer does. Keep the pro game in summer if it is believed that attendances would be affected by returning to winter, but I am in no doubt that if the amatuer side of the sport does not address the participation graph line heading south the professional game will be affected. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Damien Posted February 7, 2021 Share Posted February 7, 2021 The issues with the amateur game aren't new, they have been there ever since the pro switch to summer and the amateur game never quite knowing what to do or where it fits. I'm not sure if a switch back is the answer and if it would reverse that, or indeed if it is just part of the participation problems that sport in general is facing. Maybe a 1 month break in the summer for the amateur game, so that people can go on holidays etc, may be beneficial. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tommygilf Posted February 7, 2021 Share Posted February 7, 2021 10 minutes ago, Harry Stottle said: As I stated earlier summer rugby seems to having an adverse effect on the amatuer side of the sport there are simply to many other things to do that are much less prevalent through the winter months, all those with little or no experience of the community game can't it seems really grasp just how much it is losing ground in both popularity and participation. Yes off course people will point to a whole host of other attractions that are attention grabbers but they are not as widespread and as common in the winter months, a return to winter for the amatuer side of the sport may not work but it would not present as many alternatives than summer does. Keep the pro game in summer if it is believed that attendances would be affected by returning to winter, but I am in no doubt that if the amatuer side of the sport does not address the participation graph line heading south the professional game will be affected. I'm less convinced "summer" is the problem with the amateur game from my experience. Poor general organisation and a lack of resources are far more impactful and nothing at all to do with the time of year. As always it needs to be seen in the context of most large organised team sports declining in participation too. Possibly its worth considering a split between the junior and senior amateur seasons, but even then its not addressing the fundamental problem that the game isn't popular enough. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Harry Stottle Posted February 7, 2021 Share Posted February 7, 2021 5 hours ago, Tommygilf said: I'm less convinced "summer" is the problem with the amateur game from my experience. Poor general organisation and a lack of resources are far more impactful and nothing at all to do with the time of year. As always it needs to be seen in the context of most large organised team sports declining in participation too. Possibly its worth considering a split between the junior and senior amateur seasons, but even then its not addressing the fundamental problem that the game isn't popular enough. Yes I take that on board Tommy, but I will say we differ because age of related expierience of before the seasonal switch that I have and you most probably do not, there were those at my amatuer club who insisted the move to summer would be nothing but totally beneficial in improving interest in the game below the paid ranks for both player's and spectators and especially in the junior ranks, I argued that the oppisite would happen and it would prove to be detrimental with other attractions, commitments and influences that would have a disruptive influence, the decline in the amatuer side of Rugby League can clearly be observed since the switch in season's, what I can't argue with you would be is it just coincidental and all sports have taken the same direction, but I will still not be convinced that the switch to summer with all it's other attractions was not a reason for the acceleration in participation numbers declining. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tommygilf Posted February 7, 2021 Share Posted February 7, 2021 2 hours ago, Harry Stottle said: Yes I take that on board Tommy, but I will say we differ because age of related expierience of before the seasonal switch that I have and you most probably do not, there were those at my amatuer club who insisted the move to summer would be nothing but totally beneficial in improving interest in the game below the paid ranks for both player's and spectators and especially in the junior ranks, I argued that the oppisite would happen and it would prove to be detrimental with other attractions, commitments and influences that would have a disruptive influence, the decline in the amatuer side of Rugby League can clearly be observed since the switch in season's, what I can't argue with you would be is it just coincidental and all sports have taken the same direction, but I will still not be convinced that the switch to summer with all it's other attractions was not a reason for the acceleration in participation numbers declining. Equally though Harry I've played junior RU with a winter season in the modern era and have seen how that sport has struggled in different ways too - particularly at junior levels and particularly in the past 10 years. I know for a fact they have looked into the reasons behind that and are trying to address them - particularly on how physically demanding the game is. Summer/Winter is a bit of a non-debate imo. Yes there are more families going on holiday in Summer, but there are more kids who don't want to go out in the freezing cold mud in the Winter too. Its also worth pointing out that there is a fair amount of crossover RU players at League clubs in the summer months, especially in areas where League is a fledgling sport at best. Likewise I really do think it makes sense to play the sport when the professionals are playing it - its not like we see an exodus of crowds in Summer is it? The two primary problems for amateur RL (aside from shall we say perceptions of its locales, and the management of some clubs) are that the game is demanding to play and not very popular. They are two inescapable facts about the situation currently, and so Summer/Winter is a myth of a debate by, in my experience, generally older men who still think all kids want is "Pop and Crisps sat in the corner and they'll be reet" because that's how kids were in their day. Its not dealing with the core issues of declining player numbers at all. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Harry Stottle Posted February 8, 2021 Share Posted February 8, 2021 14 hours ago, Tommygilf said: Equally though Harry I've played junior RU with a winter season in the modern era and have seen how that sport has struggled in different ways too - particularly at junior levels and particularly in the past 10 years. I know for a fact they have looked into the reasons behind that and are trying to address them - particularly on how physically demanding the game is. Summer/Winter is a bit of a non-debate imo. Yes there are more families going on holiday in Summer, but there are more kids who don't want to go out in the freezing cold mud in the Winter too. Its also worth pointing out that there is a fair amount of crossover RU players at League clubs in the summer months, especially in areas where League is a fledgling sport at best. Likewise I really do think it makes sense to play the sport when the professionals are playing it - its not like we see an exodus of crowds in Summer is it? The two primary problems for amateur RL (aside from shall we say perceptions of its locales, and the management of some clubs) are that the game is demanding to play and not very popular. They are two inescapable facts about the situation currently, and so Summer/Winter is a myth of a debate by, in my experience, generally older men who still think all kids want is "Pop and Crisps sat in the corner and they'll be reet" because that's how kids were in their day. Its not dealing with the core issues of declining player numbers at all. Thank you, but I think it better to agree to disagree on this one. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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