Blind side johnny Posted February 12, 2021 Share Posted February 12, 2021 Plenty of, probably justified, criticism of Elstone on here but is any of it actually from a point of real knowledge. In particular, do any of us actually know what the terms of reference of his appointment were? I know that I don't. I am not defending him in any way but, before we say he failed to do this, that or the other do we actually know what the "plan" was? Sport, amongst other things, is a dream-world offering escape from harsh reality and the disturbing prospect of change. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Robin Evans Posted February 12, 2021 Share Posted February 12, 2021 4 hours ago, Kayakman said: He is like a bad migraine; he never really leaves and keeps hanging around like a lovesick ex girlfriend. Dump this guy and give him a kick in the ###### as he leaves the door ajar....like a ball and chain around a swimmer he is. I can see why you might rejoice at his upcoming exit.... he hasn't endeared himself to the masses too much has he. It does makes me wonder if he actually reads this forum and if the constant criticism has any impact on him. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gooleboy Posted February 12, 2021 Share Posted February 12, 2021 Be ironic if he is on his way to work for TWP! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Robin Evans Posted February 12, 2021 Share Posted February 12, 2021 10 minutes ago, Gooleboy said: Be ironic if he is on his way to work for TWP! Highly unlikely I know.... but I would howl!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Futtocks Posted February 12, 2021 Share Posted February 12, 2021 9 hours ago, The Future is League said: Which Mr Hearn Barry or Eddie? Does Eddie have anything to do with Matchroom darts. I honestly don't know Not only is Eddie a group managing director of Matchroom Sport, but he's also a director of the Professional Darts Corporation. So he has two fingers in the pie. Let me never fall into the vulgar mistake of dreaming that I am persecuted whenever I am contradicted. Ralph Waldo Emerson Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
redjonn Posted February 12, 2021 Share Posted February 12, 2021 6 hours ago, Blind side johnny said: Plenty of, probably justified, criticism of Elstone on here but is any of it actually from a point of real knowledge. In particular, do any of us actually know what the terms of reference of his appointment were? I know that I don't. I am not defending him in any way but, before we say he failed to do this, that or the other do we actually know what the "plan" was? yep... I general agree with your comments me thinks a lot of the comments relate to SL didn't or haven't done what their own pet bias is/was, e.g. Toronto or he should have got more money than has been reportedly offered ... as distinct from a rational objective discussion of the merits or not of whatever decision has been taken and that it was/is solely down to Elstone I have no idea what what the SL clubs set as his objectives nor what the targets are... as do almost everybody commenting. Its almost like a gang of bullies at school identifying an individual and beseeching him/her at every opportunity. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Future is League Posted February 12, 2021 Share Posted February 12, 2021 7 hours ago, JohnM said: Part of the problem is that we do not actually know what he has done and is doing. Just because we don't know that does not mean he is doing nothing. Fan engagement seems to be missing. I wish we do know what he has done so far, but it all seems very covert if he has done anything. I think what gets a lot of people annoyed about is the money he gets and what has he done to justify that money, Has he even brought enough money into the game to cover his wages? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tommygilf Posted February 13, 2021 Share Posted February 13, 2021 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gooleboy Posted February 13, 2021 Share Posted February 13, 2021 26 minutes ago, Tommygilf said: Dave Craven's Comment piece is a good read. Regarding Mr Pearson's comments, how ironic after he was so vocal about the brave new world that was about to commence. If Elstone is replaced, what a poisoned chalice that job is with so much self interest in the melting pot. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tommygilf Posted February 13, 2021 Share Posted February 13, 2021 1 minute ago, Gooleboy said: Dave Craven's Comment piece is a good read. Regarding Mr Pearson's comments, how ironic after he was so vocal about the brave new world that was about to commence. If Elstone is replaced, what a poisoned chalice that job is with so much self interest in the melting pot. Of all the owners/Chairmen of the "big clubs" I find Pearson the most "erratic", for want of a better word. He simultaneously merges a small club management style with the occasional "big club" attitude. He seems to go whichever way the wind blows at times. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Martyn Sadler Posted February 13, 2021 Share Posted February 13, 2021 7 minutes ago, Tommygilf said: Of all the owners/Chairmen of the "big clubs" I find Pearson the most "erratic", for want of a better word. He simultaneously merges a small club management style with the occasional "big club" attitude. He seems to go whichever way the wind blows at times. 45 minutes ago, Tommygilf said: The idea that there were "12 pretty opinionated individuals" is not what I hear. The problem was rather that several of the directors of Super League were reluctant to air their opinions for fear of rocking the boat. The significant change recently was the arrival of Derek Beaumont, who was aghast at what he found and spoke out strongly within the Super League meetings. It was ironic for Robert Elstone that he kicked out Toronto, who never caused him any trouble, and brought in Leigh, who cooked his goose. More on all of this in League Express on Monday. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cookey Posted February 13, 2021 Share Posted February 13, 2021 As always,it's a matter of finding someone better. It's easy to criticise,just not quite so easy to be the one making the decisions,if allowed to. Rather like politics,the best Ministers are always in Opposition,until it's their turn to make a decision,without the benefit of hindsight. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gooleboy Posted February 13, 2021 Share Posted February 13, 2021 13 minutes ago, Martyn Sadler said: The idea that there were "12 pretty opinionated individuals" is not what I hear. The problem was rather that several of the directors of Super League were reluctant to air their opinions for fear of rocking the boat. The significant change recently was the arrival of Derek Beaumont, who was aghast at what he found and spoke out strongly within the Super League meetings. It was ironic for Robert Elstone that he kicked out Toronto, who never caused him any trouble, and brought in Leigh, who cooked his goose. More on all of this in League Express on Monday. I look forward to reading it. Regarding Toronto, even as a supporter of their cause, don't you think they had big issues in the running of the Club, and would you have been comfortable admitting them with the potential new Owner's proposal? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
M j M Posted February 13, 2021 Share Posted February 13, 2021 1 hour ago, Tommygilf said: Would love to know how this bit would work - instead of 12 clubs having a say, some of those clubs delegate their opinions to other clubs?! Quote in the end, 12 opinions is too much for a CEO to probably handle and put into a plan for going forward. “Perhaps a streamlined number of clubs – say three or four – and some RFL input might be the way to go.” Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Future is League Posted February 13, 2021 Share Posted February 13, 2021 3 minutes ago, cookey said: As always,it's a matter of finding someone better. It's easy to criticise,just not quite so easy to be the one making the decisions,if allowed to. Rather like politics,the best Ministers are always in Opposition,until it's their turn to make a decision,without the benefit of hindsight. I think the money he is getting and the staff he has i think it's right for us fans to expect a lot more from him and so far i have seen nothing to justify his or his staff wages. I don't think he's even brought enough money into the game to cover him and his staff wages, but if you or anybody else can show that he has, i and probably others would be grateful. I'm not on a points scoring exercise, but i would just like to know. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
M j M Posted February 13, 2021 Share Posted February 13, 2021 Just now, Gooleboy said: I look forward to reading it. Regarding Toronto, even as a supporter of their cause, don't you think they had big issues in the running of the Club, and would you have been comfortable admitting them with the potential new Owner's proposal? Without wanting to distract this into another Toronto discussion, their financial case made as much sense as those of many of the English clubs. If Elstone-style inquiries into the financial health of SL clubs were done across the board the results would not be pretty. Which leads back to the core issue - there are some things the clubs simply shouldn't be involved in and deciding who else gets a place in the league is one of them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tommygilf Posted February 13, 2021 Share Posted February 13, 2021 8 minutes ago, Martyn Sadler said: The idea that there were "12 pretty opinionated individuals" is not what I hear. The problem was rather that several of the directors of Super League were reluctant to air their opinions for fear of rocking the boat. The significant change recently was the arrival of Derek Beaumont, who was aghast at what he found and spoke out strongly within the Super League meetings. It was ironic for Robert Elstone that he kicked out Toronto, who never caused him any trouble, and brought in Leigh, who cooked his goose. More on all of this in League Express on Monday. Yeah I suppose we have had Leeds and latterly Saints as notable outliers, the rest were either wedded to the Elstone plan or in pretty vulnerable positions making them in financially dependent - see Wakefield being in favour of what even the untrained eye can see is a poor PE deal. Given Leigh have got sanctioned lower funding, DB's reputation for "saying it how it is" and being a relative outsider to Super League's proceedings its not surprising he's "rocked the boat" - as what more does he have to lose! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gooleboy Posted February 13, 2021 Share Posted February 13, 2021 1 minute ago, M j M said: Without wanting to distract this into another Toronto discussion, their financial case made as much sense as those of many of the English clubs. If Elstone-style inquiries into the financial health of SL clubs were done across the board the results would not be pretty. Which leads back to the core issue - there are some things the clubs simply shouldn't be involved in and deciding who else gets a place in the league is one of them. I am just interested in MS's opinion. He might tell me to wait while Monday! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
M j M Posted February 13, 2021 Share Posted February 13, 2021 2 minutes ago, The Future is League said: I don't think he's even brought enough money into the game to cover him and his staff wages, but if you or anybody else can show that he has, That's not how he should be measured though. If it has to be a numbers game, the question is did he and his staff bring in more money, after deducting their salaries and all the other costs, than the alternative which is the General Manager and many of the same staff, probably based within the RFL structure somewhere. It's hard to measure some aspects of alternative universes, in particular what income may or may not have been generated, but there would always have been a cost of administering the division it's just this version cost more than the old one. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tommygilf Posted February 13, 2021 Share Posted February 13, 2021 3 minutes ago, M j M said: Would love to know how this bit would work - instead of 12 clubs having a say, some of those clubs delegate their opinions to other clubs?! That is the scenario Hetherington in particular has warned was the attitude all along. I wonder how Pearson would feel if the 4 ordained clubs were Leeds, Saints, Wigan and Warrington? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
M j M Posted February 13, 2021 Share Posted February 13, 2021 1 minute ago, M j M said: That's not how he should be measured though. If it has to be a numbers game, And technically he should be measured against whatever targets or KPIs were set when he joined, which have no doubt been largely missed - although Covid screwed up everyone's plans for the past 12 months. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Future is League Posted February 13, 2021 Share Posted February 13, 2021 3 minutes ago, M j M said: And technically he should be measured against whatever targets or KPIs were set when he joined, which have no doubt been largely missed - although Covid screwed up everyone's plans for the past 12 months. Do you or anybody else know how much he brought into the game before covid struck? At this time i have seen nothing. Perhaps you have Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
M j M Posted February 13, 2021 Share Posted February 13, 2021 Just now, Tommygilf said: That is the scenario Hetherington in particular has warned was the attitude all along. I wonder how Pearson would feel if the 4 ordained clubs were Leeds, Saints, Wigan and Warrington? I think he'd be suggesting very quickly it should be a five club panel of representative members! Realistically, the smaller clubs have to have a say. We've had league executives unhappy with having to deal with "drivel and dross" since Maurice Lindsay's day but if you only want to deal with the problems facing the big clubs you'll find yourself in a four team league after a while. Running Rugby League isn't easy, being Rugby League isn't easy but there has to be a structure out there which eases the pain of it and makes decision making less confrontational, less protracted and less full of the scheming of vested interests. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Man of Kent Posted February 13, 2021 Share Posted February 13, 2021 A ‘Super League Super Board’ sounds a bit like the old ‘big five’ in football pre-Premier League. It would concentrate power but it might get things done. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kayakman Posted February 13, 2021 Share Posted February 13, 2021 19 hours ago, Gooleboy said: Be ironic if he is on his way to work for TWP! WE WOULD ACCEPT HIM BUT ONLY AFTER A 19 YEAR ISOLATION SELF QUARANTINE AFTER A NEGATIVE COVID AND ARROGANCE TEST! P.S. He would also be required to kiss my arseend. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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