Tommygilf Posted February 10, 2021 Share Posted February 10, 2021 1 minute ago, John Rhino said: There is the problem. Whether he did or not is irrelevant now, the point is he should have influenced the decision. Thats what he was paid to do If you believe he couldn't we really are in big trouble. Absolutely, proper leadership would have made a decision on Toronto from day 1 and been able to bring others along with it. Instead, through dithering and eventually putting his decisions out to tender of the other clubs (which was actually the main issue Leeds, Warrington and St Helens had with the process), Elstone's "leadership" was either insidious or non-existent. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tommygilf Posted February 10, 2021 Share Posted February 10, 2021 3 minutes ago, Oxford said: Yes it's never their actions and role in the decsion making, and absolutely nothing to do their selfish motives nor the reliance on guaranteed success to run financially. It's a the smaller clubs fault, not many people know that! There is absolutely zero chance that Super League is going to take an equivalent position to League 1 or Championship or amateur clubs in the governance and administration of the game. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Clogiron Posted February 10, 2021 Share Posted February 10, 2021 1 hour ago, Dave T said: I recall watching that press conference that they held at the time, and it really worried me. I have a lot of respect for Simon Moran, he is good at what he does and he has been a great backer of Warrington Wolves, but I remember a question to him on what he sees as being needed. He started going on about seeing Great Britain play in big games versus the Aussies at Wembley and Old Trafford like they did in the 1990's. It shocked me at how utterly clueless and uninspiring he came across. Maybe Moran could see that those were big ticket events that thrust the game into the national spotlight like it has never been since. But that was the ridiculed pre SL winter game that has been discarded for the present s***show. Progress eh, don't you just love it Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JohnM Posted February 10, 2021 Share Posted February 10, 2021 2 hours ago, MattSantos said: Isn't this an argument for 1 voice at the top? Or, should i say, 1 impartial to the SL clubs voice and for the betterment of the whole game? I look at the company i work for. It's massive. A proper giant. It has 1 leader and an agreed strategy developed with the relevant stakeholders feeding into that. We all go away and work on it. If you don't want in, go somewhere else. Simple. I don't see a difference to how a sport should be run. I think one difference is that SL clubs at least generally owned/run by self-made successful people generally used to getting their own way in their own businesses and who don't like to be answerable to a "higher authority". Working as I did some years ago for one of the biggest CAD software companies, I met and dealt with similar people in a different line of business with similar turnovers to SL clubs - CAD systems resellers - and found some of them extremely difficult people to do business with. Stamping, shouting, swearing, dissembling etc not unknown. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Oxford Posted February 10, 2021 Share Posted February 10, 2021 1 hour ago, Tommygilf said: There is absolutely zero chance that Super League is going to take an equivalent position to League 1 or Championship or amateur clubs in the governance and administration of the game. Tommy I'm not sure why you make this point. SL should not have governance in any of those areas partly because they need their own set up but also because SL can barely run SL. The point I responded to was the focus on smaller clubs like Wakefield getting blamed for the state of affairs SL finds itself in, this needs scrutiny and research but bears little relationship to the history of RL as a whole. 2 warning points Non-Political Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
M j M Posted February 10, 2021 Share Posted February 10, 2021 2 hours ago, Ramon Rojo said: Selling the soul of our game to Sky went well didn't it. Other sports negotiate TV deals. Rugby League "sells its soul". This is straight from the 1995-era right wing tabloid press reporting on Super League and remains as offensive to me now as it was then. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tommygilf Posted February 10, 2021 Share Posted February 10, 2021 11 minutes ago, Oxford said: Tommy I'm not sure why you make this point. SL should not have governance in any of those areas partly because they need their own set up but also because SL can barely run SL. The point I responded to was the focus on smaller clubs like Wakefield getting blamed for the state of affairs SL finds itself in, this needs scrutiny and research but bears little relationship to the history of RL as a whole. Because that is the point I was replying to, if you choose to take it out of context that is up to you. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Damien Posted February 10, 2021 Share Posted February 10, 2021 27 minutes ago, M j M said: Other sports negotiate TV deals. Rugby League "sells its soul". This is straight from the 1995-era right wing tabloid press reporting on Super League and remains as offensive to me now as it was then. Yes and I always find it extremely odd. People always try to make out that Sky have some sort of Machiavellian motive when it comes to RL when in reality it has been consistently shown that they treat RL in much the same way as any other sport with any other TV deal. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JohnM Posted February 10, 2021 Share Posted February 10, 2021 1 hour ago, M j M said: Other sports negotiate TV deals. Rugby League "sells its soul". This is straight from the 1995-era right wing tabloid press reporting on Super League and remains as offensive to me now as it was then. IIRC that quote came from Roger Mosey or another left wing BBC senior exec, Peter Salmon, I think, upset that BBC had been outdone by Sky. Nothing to do with "right wing"tabloid press. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lowdesert Posted February 10, 2021 Share Posted February 10, 2021 2 hours ago, Dave T said: The first step on that tactic was taken by moving away from the RFL, they were removed as an excuse, who will Lenegan, Moran and McManus blame now? Only each other now. No single person can control a group where individual needs and politics trump the games collective need. Where short term need over rules the future. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Exiled Wiganer Posted February 10, 2021 Share Posted February 10, 2021 56 minutes ago, Clogiron said: Maybe Moran could see that those were big ticket events that thrust the game into the national spotlight like it has never been since. But that was the ridiculed pre SL winter game that has been discarded for the present s***show. Progress eh, don't you just love it You are quite wrong. The 2013 World Cup dwarfed anything seen before in the history of our game. With a fair wind, and the continued success of the vaccine roll out, this year’s could match it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dave T Posted February 10, 2021 Share Posted February 10, 2021 14 minutes ago, Lowdesert said: Only each other now. No single person can control a group where individual needs and politics trump the games collective need. Where short term need over rules the future. I think it is difficult, but possible. They basically need to be a far better leader and sales person than Robert Elstone. The likes of Wood proved too strong, and Elstone too weak for the clubs. Frustratingly I think Wood pushed the clubs alittle too much with the record TV deal and associated structure change - had he pulled back a touch on the 'whole of game' stuff we may have been in a stronger spot now. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dave T Posted February 10, 2021 Share Posted February 10, 2021 Just now, Exiled Wiganer said: You are quite wrong. The 2013 World Cup dwarfed anything seen before in the history of our game. With a fair wind, and the continued success of the vaccine roll out, this year’s could match it. Yes, I was going to make this point, people look at the early 90s and see some decent growing crowds, but then ignore the more recent successes, including the multi-nation World Cups. The oddity was Moran using these as examples to grow - surely if that was his belief for how we grow SL, then we should stay with the RFL and support an International-first strategy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Exiled Wiganer Posted February 10, 2021 Share Posted February 10, 2021 Just now, Dave T said: I think it is difficult, but possible. They basically need to be a far better leader and sales person than Robert Elstone. The likes of Wood proved too strong, and Elstone too weak for the clubs. Frustratingly I think Wood pushed the clubs alittle too much with the record TV deal and associated structure change - had he pulled back a touch on the 'whole of game' stuff we may have been in a stronger spot now. I think we need a visionary and an administrator, a well connected executive Chairman and a Lewis type administrator. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dave T Posted February 10, 2021 Share Posted February 10, 2021 1 minute ago, Exiled Wiganer said: I think we need a visionary and an administrator, a well connected executive Chairman and a Lewis type administrator. I actually think we sort of had that with Lewis and Wood - with Lewis being the visionary, even though he was very grey and uninspiring in front of the camera. Wood then counted the beans and kept us right in that regard. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Oxford Posted February 10, 2021 Share Posted February 10, 2021 51 minutes ago, Tommygilf said: Because that is the point I was replying to, if you choose to take it out of context that is up to you. Okay Tommy you don't want to come out to play today.... keep well! 2 warning points Non-Political Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Oxford Posted February 10, 2021 Share Posted February 10, 2021 7 minutes ago, Dave T said: I actually think we sort of had that with Lewis and Wood - with Lewis being the visionary, even though he was very grey and uninspiring in front of the camera. Wood then counted the beans and kept us right in that regard. I think a lot of fans(posters) simply want a V'landys, a totalitarian figure that will pull RL out of the mire by dint of his personality. A bit of a tragic indictment, that is. 2 warning points Non-Political Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Clogiron Posted February 10, 2021 Share Posted February 10, 2021 3 minutes ago, Exiled Wiganer said: You are quite wrong. The 2013 World Cup dwarfed anything seen before in the history of our game. With a fair wind, and the continued success of the vaccine roll out, this year’s could match it. I know this is much trodden ground but I don't recollect anyone becoming household names on the back of it or any great strike while the iron is hot follow up to it, except the dispensing with a number of development officer's around the country. If you believe things will be different this time you have much more faith than my 60 year's in and around the game have imbibed me with, and that's without taking Covid into consideration which is a new and unpridictable situation for everyone. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Exiled Wiganer Posted February 10, 2021 Share Posted February 10, 2021 12 minutes ago, Clogiron said: I know this is much trodden ground but I don't recollect anyone becoming household names on the back of it or any great strike while the iron is hot follow up to it, except the dispensing with a number of development officer's around the country. If you believe things will be different this time you have much more faith than my 60 year's in and around the game have imbibed me with, and that's without taking Covid into consideration which is a new and unpridictable situation for everyone. I don’t understand what you mean by different. We now have far greater strength in depth across the international game than we have ever had. We got far more people in 2013 through the gates than we have ever had. If you are instead suggesting the international game peaked in the early 90s, then that’s a tough one to argue. What I would like to see would be the next Kangaroos tour having a game at Wembley, which would replicate the approach we took then. And I think we really miss the days when we had 13 week ends of live football on Grandstand. It was that that lead to household names. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
newbe Posted February 10, 2021 Share Posted February 10, 2021 It must be the worst kept secret that S/L are going to get a lower offer in a new TV deal, just read on the the other RL forum that Wigan chairman says there will no reduction, no wonder this sport is rudderless. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hela Wigmen Posted February 10, 2021 Share Posted February 10, 2021 https://www.thenorthernecho.co.uk/sport/national/19079497.robert-elstone-leaves-super-league-in-good-place---wigan-owner-ian-lenagan/ Pollard’s spent too long in the Woolpack, it seems. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Martyn Sadler Posted February 10, 2021 Share Posted February 10, 2021 2 hours ago, M j M said: Other sports negotiate TV deals. Rugby League "sells its soul". This is straight from the 1995-era right wing tabloid press reporting on Super League and remains as offensive to me now as it was then. https://www.independent.co.uk/voices/leading-article-tomorrow-the-world-1361236.html I think The Independent would be rather surprised to find itself being described as "right wing tabloid press". But I agree with you that it is offensive. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MattSantos Posted February 10, 2021 Share Posted February 10, 2021 3 hours ago, Tommygilf said: There is absolutely zero chance that Super League is going to take an equivalent position to League 1 or Championship or amateur clubs in the governance and administration of the game. They managed it in Australia. Running the Rob Burrow marathon to raise money for the My Name'5 Doddie foundation: https://www.justgiving.com/fundraising/ben-dyas Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dave T Posted February 10, 2021 Share Posted February 10, 2021 48 minutes ago, newbe said: It must be the worst kept secret that S/L are going to get a lower offer in a new TV deal, just read on the the other RL forum that Wigan chairman says there will no reduction, no wonder this sport is rudderless. I think he is being cute with the facts on this. He is probably referring to the SL element rather than the total sky investment. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Angelic Cynic Posted February 10, 2021 Share Posted February 10, 2021 33 minutes ago, Hela Wigmen said: https://www.thenorthernecho.co.uk/sport/national/19079497.robert-elstone-leaves-super-league-in-good-place---wigan-owner-ian-lenagan/ Pollard’s spent too long in the Woolpack, it seems. Yet he doesn't seem to be in a position to ask Elstone to change his mind. Lenagan himself does seem to change his mind.From this... https://www.thedrum.com/news/2014/02/04/wigan-warriors-chairman-asks-why-200m-sky-sports-tv-rights-deal-didn-t-go-out-tender To being satisfied with Sky...Lenagan added: “In terms of the TV deal, Sky is a great partner. I think we’ve done well with them. “The increases in television audience, particularly in 2019, were quite dramatic and we survived extremely well through 2020. Is there any money left in the pot for Super League clubs to fund a replacement? They don't seem to have paid Rothschilds Bank,yet. No reserves,but resilience,persistence and determination are omnipotent. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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