New teams for League One

[tiffers]

4 hours ago, Ramon Rojo said:

I wish the Cornish Rebels every success possible but Cornwall is massively a kick & clap county. 

Without wishing to appear negative their current proposed objectives do not appear to be on any of the local news platforms, which is probably how the South West Union Monopoly want to keep it.

On local Cornwall TV News trivial kick & clap reports often appear ahead of major current affairs stories, they worship the Exeter Chiefs who play in the rival county of Devon, even the nearest professional football teams at Plymouth Argyle & Exeter City get little mention when theres a Union snippet to drool over.

When you add this local bias to many of the posts in this thread that only appear to want further Northern or Midlands located newbies to be considered for League 1 the Cornish Rebels have a massive task ahead of them.

They shall have my full personal support in their endeavours. It would be a dream come true to get a Cornwall side recognised at such a level

I fear a long and treacherous road ahead though.

It is interesting to hear your perspective on this as a fellow northerner now in Cornwall.

I must admit that for the very reasons you state are Cornwall's weaknesses re. sports clubs, I have always perceived as a positive oppurtunity for RL in Cornwall.

There is no local football foothold in the county with RU dominating, albeit with just the Pirates and some clubs at a much lower level.

Cornwall has a multitude of towns in the central belt of Cornwall (Truro, Falmouth, Newquay, Camborne, Redruth) that are the core of the counties 500k population... Yet at the moment the Pirates play in Penzance and there is no Football with Truro ground sharing in Devon for the foreseeable (until the Stadium for Cornwall is built).

I'd argue right now is the time to be pouncing!

I do concur that the Rebels have a long way to go to get to a L1 bid to overcome the location bias and the media bias. Underneath this though, I firmly believe there is an opportunity.

The central belt has enough towns and population to support an amateur game, with a semi-pro club above it pulling it all together to create a really healthy ecosystem.

Dare I say, with a bit of vision and strategic intent. The demographic and population *could* support this.

[Spidey]

3 hours ago, Eddie said:

Chester as well, they already have a decent set up, and a ready made derby with NWC. I’m surprised more SL clubs aren’t involved with expansion activities close to home. 

Warrington are linked with Chester already 

[Rugby&soccerfan]

This could be an area of expansion that actually works if you look at the bigger picture. In the summer they have most of the best Hot Weather in the Uk.

 

Most fans and clubs would make a weekend trip but casual fans already on holiday down there.  With no high profile cricket team and popular among the other code. The idea of fans travelling with the right marketing especially in the later season months where the BNB Will be crying out. This could be a good area to expand.

[dkw]

Thanks for the reply, so there's airports which makes things easier. Obviously costs would come into it, maybe a sponsorship deal to help. Would love to see this happen, been following the club on social media for a while and they are very proactive and enthusiastic.

[tiffers]

Just now, Rugby&soccerfan said:

This could be an area of expansion that actually works if you look at the bigger picture. In the summer they have most of the best Hot Weather in the Uk.

 

Most fans and clubs would make a weekend trip but casual fans already on holiday down there.  With no high profile cricket team and popular among the other code. The idea of fans travelling with the right marketing especially in the later season months where the BNB Will be crying out. This could be a good area to expand.

Completely agree. There is ample accommodation at all levels if you fancy bringing the family. Yet is completely doable in a day if you so wished, just like a Perpignan trip. I did the day trip "up-country" from NQY regularly pre-pandemic.

Looking at some of the other live event attendances such as Eden Sessions/Food festivals etc. shows that the locals do turn out for quality entertainment. Albeit, this is a completely different genre of entertainment.

Truro literally came to a stand still a couple of years ago because the bloody CocaCola truck turned up and it had never been this far south before! I'm not exaggerating.

[owls]

Would like to have had Nottingham in league 1 giving Coventry a Midland derby, do they have league 1 ambitions, or are they happy with where they are, Valencia and Belgrade should join the French pyramid system first,

[GUBRATS]

4 hours ago, Marauder said:

The one thing we require before even we start looking at expansion  is an expansion of the amateur game, the people making all the decision are now probably snow blind and to close to the core, they need to be stepping back and looking at the problem from the outside.

 

Which is why a ' creeping ' expansion is better than a random stick pins in a map , or indeed praying for a billionaire to turn up 

[Eddie]

19 minutes ago, owls said:

Would like to have had Nottingham in league 1 giving Coventry a Midland derby, do they have league 1 ambitions, or are they happy with where they are, Valencia and Belgrade should join the French pyramid system first,

Valencia yes, driveable. I doubt it’s any easier to get to SW France from Belgrade as it is to get here though tbh, probably less so. 

[GUBRATS]

4 hours ago, Sir Kevin Sinfield said:

There are countless areas where this could work, I think it’d cost more than £200k a year, the problem is do the RFL even have £200k a year going spare? We need to encourage David Argyle type investors to put their money into expansion clubs rather than spending RFL money that it doesn’t have.

Expansion clubs could be encouraged by things such as giving them a share of the tv deal, allowing them to have additional overseas quota players, giving them exemption from Relegation, taking events like Magic Weekend, Challenge Cup Semi Finals and England Internationals to the area. These things can de done at no cost or even with a profit.

You really aren't getting it are you ? , what myself and Marauder are suggesting is gradual creeping expansion away from the heartlands , an organised and funded ' plan ' by the RFL , rather than what we have seen with Toronto 

What is the title of this thread ? 

[Blind side johnny]

13 hours ago, Oldbear said:

Very true, plus while we remain under a global pandemic I can’t see any way logistically you could have any new teams join from outside the UK. I would have thought that if you did look to admit any new teams then they would be better coming from areas just outside the heartlands, like the Midlands, although Liverpool is almost certainly still a non starter.

The OP was citing a five year objective and reflecting upon the ambitions of such clubs. Nobody is even contemplating admission now but more about developing a roadmap.

[Marauder]

29 minutes ago, GUBRATS said:

Which is why a ' creeping ' expansion is better than a random stick pins in a map , or indeed praying for a billionaire to turn up 

Totally agree, fighting withdrawals are making us a laughing stock, another area that could be looked at and built up from the bottom for a district club is Grimsby, Scunthorpe and Lincoln.

[Sir Kevin Sinfield]

31 minutes ago, GUBRATS said:

You really aren't getting it are you ? , what myself and Marauder are suggesting is gradual creeping expansion away from the heartlands , an organised and funded ' plan ' by the RFL , rather than what we have seen with Toronto 

What is the title of this thread ? 

Has a club in rugby league ever been owned and run by the RFL? It would be a tough choice on which region to “creep” into and a tough sell to clubs why the RFL should fund the new club rather than existing clubs, oh and by the way the RFL spent £0 on Toronto and were not involved in either the running of or ownership of the club.

[zylya]

Whether you do creeping expansion or not, think it's outside the remit of the RFL to build professional clubs.

Instead, they should be laying the groundwork for RL in a particular area, so tasks such as:

• Market Research into the local area to identify RL demand & opportunities
• Coaches into local schools + festivals for those schools to compete against each other, plus teacher training
• Some sort of "Club Starter Kit" with some equipment (balls, cones, bibs etc) + targeted support (volunteer training, best practice guides, mentoring by RFL staff) to enable people to start setting up their own clubs, especially at junior level
• Plans should be made on a 5-10 year cycle per region. Part of the initial market research should be assessing population levels etc with the aim of creating 4-6 team leagues so that clubs can grow at the same time without much travel. Any club that starts up and has to travel more than an hour or so for all of its fixtures is eventually going to struggle. By the time the programme comes to an end, RL in that region should be (mostly) self-sustainable.

If people then wanted to invest resources (whether time or money) into creating a club that could go for League 1, then you've got a local area that has a number of people involved in RL, therefore a potential fanbase, but also a potential feed of players. However, even if no club wanted to make the move up to the professional game, you'd still have introduced the sport to a new area in a sustainable fashion.

The current expansion plan seems to be "plonk a professional team down somewhere (wherever the money man wants it) and hope for the best."

I listened to the podcast with Cornish Rebels though and they seem to have some of the right ideas. I think Community Clubs outside the heartlands with an aspiration of playing in League 1 need to see it as a 10-15 year project to get to the level required. Not so much because of players - after all, anyone with some money could assemble a decent-enough squad, but in terms of infrastructure to ensure that club survives for the long-term.

[Cumbrian Mackem]

Sunderland is ripe for RL expansion

Would still love to see a genuine Manchester RL club and a Nottingham side feeding off all the great grassroots developments in the East Midlands region.

[newbe]

6 hours ago, Marauder said:

 

I'm sure they'll be one somewhere or do they travel to Bristol, I know when I go to a reunion in Newcastle the lads from that way fly up from Bristol.

 

In the good old days , I remember when they were in the NCL Hemel having to travel to Carlise, Gateshead by coach 4/5 hrs each way.

[Harrogate Fire Ants]

8 minutes ago, Cumbrian Mackem said:

Sunderland is ripe for RL expansion

Would still love to see a genuine Manchester RL club and a Nottingham side feeding off all the great grassroots developments in the East Midlands region.

I have said it for a while with Scarborough Pirates back on the scene in the amateur game, the North Sea coastline could easily host another team whether that be near the Tees or Wear its a big enough distance from Hull, York or Newcastle to have another club at either Sunderland or Middlesbrough 

[tiffers]

6 minutes ago, zylya said:

 

Instead, they should be laying the groundwork for RL in a particular area, so tasks such as:

• Market Research into the local area to identify RL demand & opportunities
• Coaches into local schools + festivals for those schools to compete against each other, plus teacher training
• Some sort of "Club Starter Kit" with some equipment (balls, cones, bibs etc) + targeted support (volunteer training, best practice guides, mentoring by RFL staff) to enable people to start setting up their own clubs, especially at junior level
• Plans should be made on a 5-10 year cycle per region. Part of the initial market research should be assessing population levels etc with the aim of creating 4-6 team leagues so that clubs can grow at the same time without much travel. Any club that starts up and has to travel more than an hour or so for all of its fixtures is eventually going to struggle. By the time the programme comes to an end, RL in that region should be (mostly) self-sustainable.

 

If the RFL have their data and systems together, they can do some of the market research themselves to shortlist areas for support. Their systems should be able to provide them with the data to at least start looking at this. Such is the importance of their data management (CRM) in terms of revenue, but also in terms of focused efforts on grass root expansion to supply the basics as you describe above:

• Where are the hotbeds of fans? Do they have an amateur offering at the mo? If not...
• How engaged are these groups with RL content/clubs/England etc?
• Can they bring small groups of the most engaged people together to discuss appetite for getting involved? If there is a ground swell, you have the base of a volunteer-led team/club.

All of this uses data they already have access to and wouldn't take masses of effort.

If you identified geographic areas that are close by then you have a league!

All done with volunteers and minimal RFL resources... Just a case of bringing the most engaged people together and providing them a platform to show them a roadmap/what is achievable.

[Marauder]

1 hour ago, Sir Kevin Sinfield said:

Has a club in rugby league ever been owned and run by the RFL? It would be a tough choice on which region to “creep” into and a tough sell to clubs why the RFL should fund the new club rather than existing clubs, oh and by the way the RFL spent £0 on Toronto and were not involved in either the running of or ownership of the club.

Who's is asking them to fund a club except for doing school development work and Toronto is a little bit further away than North Lancashire, North Lindsey or even the East Midlands. who knows, maybe the RFL could invest into the development then sell the product at a reasonable price to some interested party.

[newbe]

A couple of seasons while at a London Broncos game, the RFL announced the start of the new Southern Conference League. I found myself at the presentation of this. Ralph Rimmer gave the main speech saying he wanted it to expand and compete with the northern clubs. No mention about league 1, I think he knew then the new TV was dead, and he was trying to get ready for a new but much stronger amateur league were at the end of the season top Southern teams play the top Northern teams.

[newbe]

2 hours ago, GUBRATS said:

You really aren't getting it are you ? , what myself and Marauder are suggesting is gradual creeping expansion away from the heartlands , an organised and funded ' plan ' by the RFL , rather than what we have seen with Toronto 

What is the title of this thread ? 

If there is no central funding there will not be a league1. No offence but people have got to more realistic.

[gingerjon]

2 hours ago, GUBRATS said:

Which is why a ' creeping ' expansion is better than a random stick pins in a map , or indeed praying for a billionaire to turn up 

Creeping expansion is sticking pins in a map.

[Robthegasman]

3 hours ago, Rugby&soccerfan said:

This could be an area of expansion that actually works if you look at the bigger picture. In the summer they have most of the best Hot Weather in the Uk.

 

Most fans and clubs would make a weekend trip but casual fans already on holiday down there.  With no high profile cricket team and popular among the other code. The idea of fans travelling with the right marketing especially in the later season months where the BNB Will be crying out. This could be a good area to expand.

Very good point about the weather and the holiday makers down there.

Summer rugby would I think be very popular there.

[Cumbrian Mackem]

44 minutes ago, Harrogate Fire Ants said:

I have said it for a while with Scarborough Pirates back on the scene in the amateur game, the North Sea coastline could easily host another team whether that be near the Tees or Wear its a big enough distance from Hull, York or Newcastle to have another club at either Sunderland or Middlesbrough 

Didn’t know that about the Scarborough pirates. That’s great news. I saw them play Whitehaven at the recre when I was a kid back in the early 90’s and although I can’t remember anything of the game or result I always remember sitting near to who I presume was the pirates chairman in the old grandstand.

A semi-professional side from either Sunderland or Middlesbrough would be fantastic for the region and the game in general and quite possibly for the thunder as well in having a local rivalry. Could also help push the expansion of the grassroots game into areas in County Durham like Darlington and Hartlepool etc.

[WakefieldCityLoyal]

4 minutes ago, Cumbrian Mackem said:

Didn’t know that about the Scarborough pirates. That’s great news. I saw them play Whitehaven at the recre when I was a kid back in the early 90’s and although I can’t remember anything of the game or result I always remember sitting near to who I presume was the pirates chairman in the old grandstand.

A semi-professional side from either Sunderland or Middlesbrough would be fantastic for the region and the game in general and quite possibly for the thunder as well in having a local rivalry. Could also help push the expansion of the grassroots game into areas in County Durham like Darlington and Hartlepool etc.

Agreed would be good RL areas,  always puzzled me that such working class areas like Darlington/Hartlepool, Rugby Union has such a presence.

[Cumbrian Mackem]

2 minutes ago, WakefieldCityLoyal said:

Agreed would be good RL areas,  always puzzled me that such working class areas like Darlington/Hartlepool, Rugby Union has such a presence.

Rugby union is played all throughout England and even has a presence in strong RL areas like wigan and Leeds etc.

From memory West Hartlepool was in the top flight before union went professional but like you I too agree that County Durham would be good for grassroots/amateur RL and a semi-professional Sunderland club could be a huge boost for that area.