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The Rugby League GOAT


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After Tom Brady pretty much put the argument about NFL's GOAT to bed, I was watching a YouTuber I follow try to do the GOAT from every major sport in the world. Although the lad is from Hull, his channel is a Football channel and he admits to knowing little about Rugby of either code, I was actually a little pleasantly surprised that RL was even included.

When he got to RL, he went with Cameron Smith. My initial reaction was no way, he's a great solid player but would I call him the greatest ever to play the game? The pick was based largely on statistics about number of NRL games played, tackles made, trophies won etc. And whilst impressive, I don't know when I'm thinking of the GOAT I think you need more than good stats. For instance, I can't think of a single Wow moment from Smith. 

Taking away my Widnes bias (ahem Tony Myler) and trying to think of it in the bigger picture, I really don't know who fits the picture. Names that come to mind include Meninga, Johns, Thurston, Hanley etc and of course it depends what you're looking for. For me I think it is that wow factor, the ability to single-handedly change a game or to create a moment that you'll never forget. By this token, Offiah would be up there but could you really describe him as the greatest RL player of all time with his defensive issues?

Any ideas?

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As we obviously know, you could really pick a variety of different players depending on what position they play. But if you consider the 'play makers' as being the most important, which most sides do, then you can probably reduce it down to half backs, full backs and number 9s. For me the greatest player i've ever watched and seen them do consistently brilliant things over a long period is Billy Slater. 

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Darren Lockyer

During his 17-year career he set appearance records for his club, state and country, and also set additional all-time records for most National Rugby League appearances, most State of Origin appearances, most games as captain and most tries for the Australian national team.

As a fullback, Lockyer won three grand finalsand one as a Five Eighth with the Broncos (including a Clive Churchill Medal), a World Cup with Australia, and the Golden Boot Awardfor the world's best player. He was named in Queensland Rugby League's Team of the Century (1998–2007) at fullback. He switched positions to five-eighth in 2004 and went on to win a fourth grand final with the Broncos, a further five State of Origin series with Queensland, and a second Golden Boot Award.

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1 hour ago, Maximus Decimus said:

After Tom Brady pretty much put the argument about NFL's GOAT to bed, I was watching a YouTuber I follow try to do the GOAT from every major sport in the world. Although the lad is from Hull, his channel is a Football channel and he admits to knowing little about Rugby of either code, I was actually a little pleasantly surprised that RL was even included.

When he got to RL, he went with Cameron Smith. My initial reaction was no way, he's a great solid player but would I call him the greatest ever to play the game? The pick was based largely on statistics about number of NRL games played, tackles made, trophies won etc. And whilst impressive, I don't know when I'm thinking of the GOAT I think you need more than good stats. For instance, I can't think of a single Wow moment from Smith. 

Taking away my Widnes bias (ahem Tony Myler) and trying to think of it in the bigger picture, I really don't know who fits the picture. Names that come to mind include Meninga, Johns, Thurston, Hanley etc and of course it depends what you're looking for. For me I think it is that wow factor, the ability to single-handedly change a game or to create a moment that you'll never forget. By this token, Offiah would be up there but could you really describe him as the greatest RL player of all time with his defensive issues?

Any ideas?

hitc sevens?

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4 minutes ago, Maximus Decimus said:

That's the one! Quite enjoy his videos, though he puts a lot of pressure on himself to get so many videos out.

Yeah he's good, the HITC sport channel is quite good too though totally different in tone.

Thinking of making a few RL based videos in a similar style tbh

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49 minutes ago, Sir Kevin Sinfield said:

Darren Lockyer

During his 17-year career he set appearance records for his club, state and country, and also set additional all-time records for most National Rugby League appearances, most State of Origin appearances, most games as captain and most tries for the Australian national team.

As a fullback, Lockyer won three grand finalsand one as a Five Eighth with the Broncos (including a Clive Churchill Medal), a World Cup with Australia, and the Golden Boot Awardfor the world's best player. He was named in Queensland Rugby League's Team of the Century (1998–2007) at fullback. He switched positions to five-eighth in 2004 and went on to win a fourth grand final with the Broncos, a further five State of Origin series with Queensland, and a second Golden Boot Award.

Yeh he's definitely in with a shout.

Funnily enough, your name gives me an idea for how I feel about Smith as Sinfield is very much a British equivalent in that his stats are great but he was never a very spectacular player.

For me, to be the GOAT at a sport, it should be relatively obvious. For instance, imagine if you didn't know much about Football. If you watched a game with Messi or Ronaldo at their peak, you wouldn't need to be an expert to see that were standouts. In my lifetime and in RL, the same could be said of all time greats like Lockyer, Johns, Meninga and Hanley but even special players in their time like SBW, Inglis, Burgess, Offiah or Benji but I'm not sure a bystander would even recognise that Smith or Sinfield were particularly good.

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3 minutes ago, Tommygilf said:

Yeah he's good, the HITC sport channel is quite good too though totally different in tone.

Thinking of making a few RL based videos in a similar style tbh

It's sad really how RL has been left behind on platforms like YouTube. Clubs have tried half-hearted attempts but seem to get very few views.

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I like Cam Smith as a choice, just as I'd like Kevin Sinfield. 

They're excellent players who combine talent with longevity and have enjoyed simply unparalleled success. As leaders of their teams they have a real aura around them and that translates to their clubs' fans. I also like it because both are relatively understated - they don't rely on amazing one off plays or anything to enhance enhance their status - and I think that speaks to a wider value of humility in RL too.

Obviously I get that these are mainly modern era players, and retrospectively the likes of Hanley etc would be well within their rights to stake a claim too, but as with the Brady example and indeed the Ronaldo/Messi debate, it is possible to have stars now who are worthy of the GOAT title.

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3 minutes ago, Maximus Decimus said:

It's sad really how RL has been left behind on platforms like YouTube. Clubs have tried half-hearted attempts but seem to get very few views.

Yeah, I think that's a worrying display of the demographics RL simply isn't hitting. That said, it leaves a massive gap in the market for me! 

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1 hour ago, hunsletgreenandgold said:

As we obviously know, you could really pick a variety of different players depending on what position they play. But if you consider the 'play makers' as being the most important, which most sides do, then you can probably reduce it down to half backs, full backs and number 9s. For me the greatest player i've ever watched and seen them do consistently brilliant things over a long period is Billy Slater. 

Good point and one I've thought about, creative players and point-scorers always likely to come out on top but the same is true for Football, RU, NFL etc People just don't appreciate the grafters as much!

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1 hour ago, Wigan Riversider said:

Ellery Hanley

 

33 minutes ago, Damien said:

Ellery Hanley

If I were to list my top 20 Rugby League players, 90 to 95% of them would be Aussies... they have produced legend after legend.

But standing above all of them is Hanley.

I have said before, if Hanley was an Aussie and played the majority of his career over there he would universally be recognised as the best ever.

"The history of the world is the history of the triumph of the heartless over the mindless." — Sir Humphrey Appleby.

"If someone doesn't value evidence, what evidence are you going to provide to prove that they should value it? If someone doesn't value logic, what logical argument could you provide to show the importance of logic?" — Sam Harris

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4 minutes ago, Dunbar said:

 

If I were to list my top 20 Rugby League players, 90 to 95% of them would be Aussies... they have produced legend after legend.

But standing above all of them is Hanley.

I have said before, if Hanley was an Aussie and played the majority of his career over there he would universally be recognised as the best ever.

Agree 100%👍

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2 minutes ago, Tommygilf said:

I like Cam Smith as a choice, just as I'd like Kevin Sinfield. 

They're excellent players who combine talent with longevity and have enjoyed simply unparalleled success. As leaders of their teams they have a real aura around them and that translates to their clubs' fans. I also like it because both are relatively understated - they don't rely on amazing one off plays or anything to enhance enhance their status - and I think that speaks to a wider value of humility in RL too.

Obviously I get that these are mainly modern era players, and retrospectively the likes of Hanley etc would be well within their rights to stake a claim too, but as with the Brady example and indeed the Ronaldo/Messi debate, it is possible to have stars now who are worthy of the GOAT title.

In reality, in most sports it's actually more likely that they are the GOAT nowadays because of the greater level of competition. It's probably less true in RL.

One of the things you'd look for in a GOAT is their ability to translate it wherever they went. Ronaldo is probably the best example of this, in someone who has stood out wherever he has played and at times single-handedly led a team to victory. Obviously, Sinfield and Smith were largely one club players but could they have done it at a mediocre club struggling in the bottom half of the table. I'm not sure. Whereas if you plant a Johns or a Meninga into an average club they would stand out a mile.

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9 minutes ago, Maximus Decimus said:

In reality, in most sports it's actually more likely that they are the GOAT nowadays because of the greater level of competition. It's probably less true in RL.

One of the things you'd look for in a GOAT is their ability to translate it wherever they went. Ronaldo is probably the best example of this, in someone who has stood out wherever he has played and at times single-handedly led a team to victory. Obviously, Sinfield and Smith were largely one club players but could they have done it at a mediocre club struggling in the bottom half of the table. I'm not sure. Whereas if you plant a Johns or a Meninga into an average club they would stand out a mile.

I think this is an important point. Cameron Smith is clearly an outstanding player, but I genuinely can't help but feel his ability is overstated, in a way that Aussies are good doing with some of their players. Smith is a very good player, very tough, very consistent and a hell of a leader. He chooses the right play the vast majority of times. They are very good traits, but then I think Ellery Hanley had all these traits, plus he was able to do stuff that Cameron Smith could only dream about.

From players in my lifetime I would be looking at the likes of Ellery Hanley and Wally Lewis.

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