Hela Wigmen Posted February 19, 2021 Share Posted February 19, 2021 https://www.hulldailymail.co.uk/sport/rugby-league/super-league-fixtures-played-over-5014851.amp?__twitter_impression=true Couple of weeks out from the Cup Final, too, in an already heavily congested season. Lunacy. Sincerely hope Saints pull our players out of this. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lowdesert Posted February 19, 2021 Share Posted February 19, 2021 12 minutes ago, Hela Wigmen said: https://www.hulldailymail.co.uk/sport/rugby-league/super-league-fixtures-played-over-5014851.amp?__twitter_impression=true Couple of weeks out from the Cup Final, too, in an already heavily congested season. Lunacy. Sincerely hope Saints pull our players out of this. This is one year when such a decision to pull out would be stupid. “Talks are believed to have been held between clubs, who were happy to play despite the clash with England's plans. Insiders have told Rugby League Live that several clubs, including those likely to be the worst affected by call ups, were keen to play and give their young talent another chance to take centre stage.” Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hela Wigmen Posted February 19, 2021 Author Share Posted February 19, 2021 2 minutes ago, Lowdesert said: This is one year when such a decision to pull out would be stupid. “Talks are believed to have been held between clubs, who were happy to play despite the clash with England's plans. Insiders have told Rugby League Live that several clubs, including those likely to be the worst affected by call ups, were keen to play and give their young talent another chance to take centre stage.” It’s almost like they’ve all forgotten about 2020 and how much we had to listen to certain clubs moan about player welfare and injuries to their players. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dunbar Posted February 19, 2021 Share Posted February 19, 2021 I don't see what the problem is. A player can't play two games at the same time so if they play for England while a youngster/fringe player gets chance in the first team for a weekend then all good. If the England game were not there, then the player would play for their club anyway so there is no extra workload. It shows that we may be actually seeing the value of England to the overall sport. I won't hold my breath but it is a start. "The history of the world is the history of the triumph of the heartless over the mindless." — Sir Humphrey Appleby. "If someone doesn't value evidence, what evidence are you going to provide to prove that they should value it? If someone doesn't value logic, what logical argument could you provide to show the importance of logic?" — Sam Harris Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eddie Posted February 19, 2021 Share Posted February 19, 2021 Kick and clap do it, as Lowdesert says it will give some of the fringe players the chance to play some first team games. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hela Wigmen Posted February 19, 2021 Author Share Posted February 19, 2021 23 minutes ago, Dunbar said: I don't see what the problem is. A player can't play two games at the same time so if they play for England while a youngster/fringe player gets chance in the first team for a weekend then all good. If the England game were not there, then the player would play for their club anyway so there is no extra workload. It shows that we may be actually seeing the value of England to the overall sport. I won't hold my breath but it is a start. The problem is how last year has fallen by the wayside in peoples memories. This year, like last year, we’re loading games into a shorter period of time and playing with very similar rules to those used last year, which saw the game played at a faster pace initially. The amount of injuries, fatigue and player welfare issues last year were plentiful. Games were postponed, players had to be drafted in from Championship clubs (which looks like it will be used less this year with the return of the Championship) and other clubs simply refused to play games. Throw in the fact that reserve grade lasted all of about one game before that was scrapped, likely, to not return, dual registration and the loan system is going to be manoeuvred in a new way, which is yet to be confirmed, and no communication regarding Academy Rugby League (of which, some clubs dont even run an Academy side) officially since December. This sham game, an exhibition game in fact, can be thrown into that mix and it’s going to create problems. 22 minutes ago, Eddie said: Kick and clap do it, as Lowdesert says it will give some of the fringe players the chance to play some first team games. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hela Wigmen Posted February 19, 2021 Author Share Posted February 19, 2021 21 minutes ago, Eddie said: Kick and clap do it, as Lowdesert says it will give some of the fringe players the chance to play some first team games. And? What’s that got to do with anything? They’re their own sport and we’re our own. Beyond some similar shaped balls and similar rules, we’re very different sports and comparisons are simply incorrect and needless. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eddie Posted February 19, 2021 Share Posted February 19, 2021 10 minutes ago, Hela Wigmen said: And? What’s that got to do with anything? They’re their own sport and we’re our own. Beyond some similar shaped balls and similar rules, we’re very different sports and comparisons are simply incorrect and needless. Rugby League is insular, but not so insular that it’s not capable of looking at what works and what doesn’t in other sports. I could have used cricket as a comparison also, in this instance, as county cricket goes on while England are playing. This is an unusual season and if SL are obliged to fit in the high number of games in such a short time, clearly this has to happen if England are also going to play before the WC. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hela Wigmen Posted February 19, 2021 Author Share Posted February 19, 2021 Just now, Eddie said: Rugby League is insular, but not so insular that it’s not capable of looking at what works and what doesn’t in other sports. I could have used cricket as a comparison also, in this instance, as county cricket goes on while England are playing. This is an unusual season and if SL are obliged to fit in the high number of games in such a short time, clearly this has to happen if England are also going to play before the WC. In certain ways yes, we must compare and contrast but in this instance, not at all. For a start, the finances in Rugby Union and central contracts makes the comparison null and void and similarly for cricket, too. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
whatmichaelsays Posted February 19, 2021 Share Posted February 19, 2021 This is being spun as an "opportunity for the kids" thing, which is fine. But it's pretty much missing the point from a commercial perspective. Irrespective of whether crowds are allowed back into venue by that point or not, we now have a situation where the England team and the Super League are essentially competing with each other for a week of the year. They're competing for attention, probably competing on viewership or ticket sales and they're competing with each other on players. Why? There's no good commercial justification for doing that. Why would it kill the sport to give England vs Exiles exclusivity for that week where everybody, across the game, can give it the time and attention it needs to generate media coverage, let the players prepare and give the RL fan base one event to focus on? What's the benefit of going toe-to-toe with it? RU can get away with it because the international game basically bankrolls everything else. We don't have that luxury. As for the player welfare thing, I think anyone who doesn't see that the "we believe in player welfare" thing is nothing more than a T-shirt campaign, delivered with even less sincerity than UEFA's "say no to racism" campaign, clearly isn't looking. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hela Wigmen Posted February 19, 2021 Author Share Posted February 19, 2021 4 minutes ago, whatmichaelsays said: This is being spun as an "opportunity for the kids" thing, which is fine. But it's pretty much missing the point from a commercial perspective. Irrespective of whether crowds are allowed back into venue by that point or not, we now have a situation where the England team and the Super League are essentially competing with each other for a week of the year. They're competing for attention, probably competing on viewership or ticket sales and they're competing with each other on players. Why? There's no good commercial justification for doing that. Why would it kill the sport to give England vs Exiles exclusivity for that week where everybody, across the game, can give it the time and attention it needs to generate media coverage, let the players prepare and give the RL fan base one event to focus on? What's the benefit of going toe-to-toe with it? RU can get away with it because the international game basically bankrolls everything else. We don't have that luxury. As for the player welfare thing, I think anyone who doesn't see that the "we believe in player welfare" thing is nothing more than a T-shirt campaign, delivered with even less sincerity than UEFA's "say no to racism" campaign, clearly isn't looking. This is also a very good point I’d not considered. As much as we’ve all missed live sport, how many are going to commit to two games a weekend? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eddie Posted February 19, 2021 Share Posted February 19, 2021 15 minutes ago, Hela Wigmen said: In certain ways yes, we must compare and contrast but in this instance, not at all. For a start, the finances in Rugby Union and central contracts makes the comparison null and void and similarly for cricket, too. Not null and void, the point is that squads have enough players to cope without their England international players, for one match. It’s not ideal I agree, but a sad necessity this season if we want an England game before the WC. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hela Wigmen Posted February 19, 2021 Author Share Posted February 19, 2021 Just now, Eddie said: Not null and void, the point is that squads have enough players to cope without their England international players, for one match. It’s not ideal I agree, but a sad necessity this season if we want an England game before the WC. It is. The Premiership RU salary cap is dropping by £1.4m to £5m according to BBC (June 2020). Exeter, who either are or were champions recently in that sport have a squad of 56 players (according to Wiki) and that’s before their Academy squad. I’m not sure how central contracts work in relation to their salary cap but the finances in that sport allows for greater squad depth, so England playing in the Six Nations is impacted far less than Rugby League is when England decide to play a mid-season exhibition game. The current back to back Super League champions, St Helens, have a £2.1m salary cap and as such have given squad numbers to thirty players in their first team squad for 2021. The same can be said for Cricket, who operate with central contracts for elite England players. The comparison is weak. And that’s being friendly. By all means compare and contrast business operations but trying to compare England rugby union playing and Sale Sharks continuing to play and England Rugby League playing and Salford (who don’t run an Academy) continuing to play is no comparison at all. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rupert Prince Posted February 19, 2021 Share Posted February 19, 2021 1 hour ago, Hela Wigmen said: https://www.hulldailymail.co.uk/sport/rugby-league/super-league-fixtures-played-over-5014851.amp?__twitter_impression=true Couple of weeks out from the Cup Final, too, in an already heavily congested season. Lunacy. Sincerely hope Saints pull our players out of this. Weasel words. You will be saying how important the world cup is next. The real issue is that the league should have been set at 23 rounds and that should have been agreed months ago. The plplayersan only play 1 game in the week. It does not matter who they play for. Who ever gets to the top 6(?) this year is irrelevant. The important issue is to give England games and keep our elite players fresh. I would have said this year that no player should play more than 22 league games... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rupert Prince Posted February 19, 2021 Share Posted February 19, 2021 7 minutes ago, Hela Wigmen said: It is. The Premiership RU salary cap is dropping by £1.4m to £5m according to BBC (June 2020). Exeter, who either are or were champions recently in that sport have a squad of 56 players (according to Wiki) and that’s before their Academy squad. I’m not sure how central contracts work in relation to their salary cap but the finances in that sport allows for greater squad depth, so England playing in the Six Nations is impacted far less than Rugby League is when England decide to play a mid-season exhibition game. The current back to back Super League champions, St Helens, have a £2.1m salary cap and as such have given squad numbers to thirty players in their first team squad for 2021. The same can be said for Cricket, who operate with central contracts for elite England players. The comparison is weak. And that’s being friendly. By all means compare and contrast business operations but trying to compare England rugby union playing and Sale Sharks continuing to play and England Rugby League playing and Salford (who don’t run an Academy) continuing to play is no comparison at all. You clearly do not have much faith in the Saints squad. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
whatmichaelsays Posted February 19, 2021 Share Posted February 19, 2021 13 minutes ago, Hela Wigmen said: It is. The Premiership RU salary cap is dropping by £1.4m to £5m according to BBC (June 2020). Exeter, who either are or were champions recently in that sport have a squad of 56 players (according to Wiki) and that’s before their Academy squad. I’m not sure how central contracts work in relation to their salary cap but the finances in that sport allows for greater squad depth, so England playing in the Six Nations is impacted far less than Rugby League is when England decide to play a mid-season exhibition game. The current back to back Super League champions, St Helens, have a £2.1m salary cap and as such have given squad numbers to thirty players in their first team squad for 2021. The same can be said for Cricket, who operate with central contracts for elite England players. The comparison is weak. And that’s being friendly. By all means compare and contrast business operations but trying to compare England rugby union playing and Sale Sharks continuing to play and England Rugby League playing and Salford (who don’t run an Academy) continuing to play is no comparison at all. It's also worth mentioning that the number of Kolpak players in the English RU Premiership has exploded over the course of the last 20 years or so because clubs know that they can keep hold of those players on international weekends. The current Sale Sharks squad has 11 South Africans - all of whom would be able to play on the same day that England are competing in the Six Nations. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hela Wigmen Posted February 19, 2021 Author Share Posted February 19, 2021 3 minutes ago, Rupert Prince said: Weasel words. You will be saying how important the world cup is next. The real issue is that the league should have been set at 23 rounds and that should have been agreed months ago. The plplayersan only play 1 game in the week. It does not matter who they play for. Who ever gets to the top 6(?) this year is irrelevant. The important issue is to give England games and keep our elite players fresh. I would have said this year that no player should play more than 22 league games... Is it not okay to say that the World Cup is important and to highlight the issues with such a move in an already compact season? 1 minute ago, Rupert Prince said: You clearly do not have much faith in the Saints squad. Nothing to do with who I support. But as you ask, we’re well positioned because we have a highly functional academy. The problem I have is for the credibility for the league as a whole because while I support Saints, I’m a Rugby League fan too and want to see Super League do well. We saw last year that players and coaches of some Super League clubs complained about the fixture turnaround, injuries, fatigue and player welfare in 2020. In an already congested season, in which we have a home World Cup and can’t really afford a poor display on home soil, this move just further solidifies the myth of player welfare. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
welshmagpie Posted February 19, 2021 Share Posted February 19, 2021 57 minutes ago, whatmichaelsays said: This is being spun as an "opportunity for the kids" thing, which is fine. But it's pretty much missing the point from a commercial perspective. Irrespective of whether crowds are allowed back into venue by that point or not, we now have a situation where the England team and the Super League are essentially competing with each other for a week of the year. They're competing for attention, probably competing on viewership or ticket sales and they're competing with each other on players. Why? There's no good commercial justification for doing that. Why would it kill the sport to give England vs Exiles exclusivity for that week where everybody, across the game, can give it the time and attention it needs to generate media coverage, let the players prepare and give the RL fan base one event to focus on? What's the benefit of going toe-to-toe with it? RU can get away with it because the international game basically bankrolls everything else. We don't have that luxury. As for the player welfare thing, I think anyone who doesn't see that the "we believe in player welfare" thing is nothing more than a T-shirt campaign, delivered with even less sincerity than UEFA's "say no to racism" campaign, clearly isn't looking. Well said Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
redjonn Posted February 19, 2021 Share Posted February 19, 2021 1 hour ago, Hela Wigmen said: In certain ways yes, we must compare and contrast but in this instance, not at all. For a start, the finances in Rugby Union and central contracts makes the comparison null and void and similarly for cricket, too. maybe but we have 25 player squads... plus fringe academy players close to those 25 squad players (leeds have over 30+). The comparison is fair whether union or not, but its a similar game whether one dislikes it or not so a fair comparison.... other then being up one's.... Plus we have a play off system for the main silver-ware that really matters... a play off system that can be changed like last season to take account that not very game is equal Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Damien Posted February 19, 2021 Share Posted February 19, 2021 2 hours ago, Johnoco said: Other sports manage it and internationals should have priority. This is pretty much it. It really is no big deal and we either want an international game or not. A standalone game would be great but failing that, and if clubs are that greedy to want extra games, then internationals should take priority. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Man of Kent Posted February 19, 2021 Share Posted February 19, 2021 Leigh might win a game! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lowdesert Posted February 19, 2021 Share Posted February 19, 2021 2 hours ago, Hela Wigmen said: It’s almost like they’ve all forgotten about 2020 and how much we had to listen to certain clubs moan about player welfare and injuries to their players. Player welfare? Does that include players staggering off the pitch concussed and then returning as well? This is a World Cup year and would show how determined and supportive we are for the national side. Im sure many would grumble seeing their youth get a chance in the first team. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lowdesert Posted February 19, 2021 Share Posted February 19, 2021 1 hour ago, Hela Wigmen said: Is it not okay to say that the World Cup is important and to highlight the issues with such a move in an already compact season? Nothing to do with who I support. But as you ask, we’re well positioned because we have a highly functional academy. The problem I have is for the credibility for the league as a whole because while I support Saints, I’m a Rugby League fan too and want to see Super League do well. We saw last year that players and coaches of some Super League clubs complained about the fixture turnaround, injuries, fatigue and player welfare in 2020. In an already congested season, in which we have a home World Cup and can’t really afford a poor display on home soil, this move just further solidifies the myth of player welfare. Imagine how traumatic it is for teams having to travel to St Helens, Oliver. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sir Kevin Sinfield Posted February 19, 2021 Share Posted February 19, 2021 If Super League games are on the same weekend I can’t see the Exiles having much of a side out, players will be under pressure to play for their club ahead of the Exiles. And as they’re not a real International side rightly so IMO. Play France 10 days out from the World Cup opener and scrap this bring back the exiles idea. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eddie Posted February 19, 2021 Share Posted February 19, 2021 1 hour ago, Hela Wigmen said: It is. The Premiership RU salary cap is dropping by £1.4m to £5m according to BBC (June 2020). Exeter, who either are or were champions recently in that sport have a squad of 56 players (according to Wiki) and that’s before their Academy squad. I’m not sure how central contracts work in relation to their salary cap but the finances in that sport allows for greater squad depth, so England playing in the Six Nations is impacted far less than Rugby League is when England decide to play a mid-season exhibition game. The current back to back Super League champions, St Helens, have a £2.1m salary cap and as such have given squad numbers to thirty players in their first team squad for 2021. The same can be said for Cricket, who operate with central contracts for elite England players. The comparison is weak. And that’s being friendly. By all means compare and contrast business operations but trying to compare England rugby union playing and Sale Sharks continuing to play and England Rugby League playing and Salford (who don’t run an Academy) continuing to play is no comparison at all. It’s just one game, really nothing to worry about. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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