Aussie teenager wanted $ 1million a season

[DoubleD]

2 hours ago, Dunbar said:

Harry Smith is the finest half back talent I have seen in the UK for a long time (with the caveat that Lewis Dodd may be even better).

But David Fifita, Stephen Crichton and Bradman Best are all younger than Harry Smith and are either firmly established and guaranteed NRL starters or even SOO reps already... while Smith is still waiting for a regular start for Wigan.

And this is not a dig at you RP, I know we share the same hope that Smith gets the Wigan 7 jersey and keeps it for a long time... just a pity that a 35 year old has got the Wigan 7 jersey again this year.

Better than Jake Trueman?

[Dunbar]

1 minute ago, DoubleD said:

Better than Jake Trueman?

For me, yes.  Although Trueman is a quality young player.

The reason I say this is.  In all my time watching Great Britain and England play the Australians (and the club comps) we are often told that the Aussies are stronger, fitter, faster etc etc but the single biggest difference between the teams for as long as I can remember is the quality of the halves and in particular their ability to manage a game and control field position and possession through a quality kicking game.  Whether is Johns, Lockyer, Thurston or Cronk, they had players who could literally grind a team down with pinpoint kicking.

This is what we have lacked and in Smith I think we can have that.  His kicking game is as good in a junior player as I have ever seen.  If we had a George William or a Trueman alongside him for a running threat it would be a very good combination... as I say, Lewis Dodd could also develop in a really top quality half as well.

[DoubleD]

36 minutes ago, Dunbar said:

For me, yes.  Although Trueman is a quality young player.

The reason I say this is.  In all my time watching Great Britain and England play the Australians (and the club comps) we are often told that the Aussies are stronger, fitter, faster etc etc but the single biggest difference between the teams for as long as I can remember is the quality of the halves and in particular their ability to manage a game and control field position and possession through a quality kicking game.  Whether is Johns, Lockyer, Thurston or Cronk, they had players who could literally grind a team down with pinpoint kicking.

This is what we have lacked and in Smith I think we can have that.  His kicking game is as good in a junior player as I have ever seen.  If we had a George William or a Trueman alongside him for a running threat it would be a very good combination... as I say, Lewis Dodd could also develop in a really top quality half as well.

I like Smith but there’s a big difference between cutting it at junior level behind a dominant pack to stepping upto senior level behind a less dominant one. For me, he’s got potential but is relatively unproven at senior level. And I know you’ll rightly say he needs the opportunity to prove that and I’m sure we all hope he will this season (although I have my concerns). Ryan Hampshire was standout at academy level, along with Williams (he was the better of the 2) but their careers have taken very different trajectories. 

From what I’ve seen of Trueman, he’s the most naturally gifted half we’ve had in a long time and I’d expect him to have a long international career and make it down under

[Dunbar]

7 minutes ago, DoubleD said:

I like Smith but there’s a big difference between cutting it at junior level behind a dominant pack to stepping upto senior level behind a less dominant one. For me, he’s got potential but is relatively unproven at senior level. And I know you’ll rightly say he needs the opportunity to prove that and I’m sure we all hope he will this season (although I have my concerns). Ryan Hampshire was standout at academy level, along with Williams (he was the better of the 2) but their careers have taken very different trajectories. 

From what I’ve seen of Trueman, he’s the most naturally gifted half we’ve had in a long time and I’d expect him to have a long international career and make it down under

I have been careful to try and stress that Smith has the potential/talent to become a top class half.

Trueman in just over a year older than Smith and he made 73 appearances for Cas while Smith has made just 18 for Wigan... it is definitely time to give Smith the chance to prove what he can do with a regular run for Wigan.

[unapologetic pedant]

9 hours ago, ghost crayfish said:

All the hype suggests he's pretty good, but I'm already sick of hearing about him. All his carry on to date is pathetic for a 17 yr old - embarrassing - and has put a big target on his back. It also suggests we've got another code hopping "superstar" on the way, so it's only a matter of time before he burns a club with more absurd demands. 

As far as I`m aware he only started playing Union when he was offered a scholarship by a private school. Before that, he was a League junior. So the only reason anyone is weighing up his "code-hopping" potential, and trying to divine his plans relative to the timing of RU World Cups is the privileged place of RU in schools. Such calculations are not made of prodigious talents who played League at secondary school.

This point is worthy of consideration for those posters who on other threads seem to have accepted that playing Union at secondary school is a natural phenomenon. And who are content for NRL clubs to perpetuate the orthodoxy by offering contracts to schoolboy Union players, particularly in NZ where RU as of right dominates State schools as well as the private sector.

[roughyed8]

18 hours ago, Dunbar said:

Clubs have always been prepared to invest in the best young talent to secure them.

When Sean Edwards signed for Wigan as a 16 year old he got £35k as a sign on fee (he would have got appearance fees and win money on top of that as he played during the year).

That £35k is now worth about £121k according to the bank of England inflation calculator and therefore around $215k AUD.

Suaalii was looking for $480k for the first full year of his contract with Souths so hardly breaking the bank.

To be fair when Edwards signed it was pre fixed term contracts and he became a wigan player for life, or until a the club deemed him surplus to requirements or another club came in with an bid acceptable to wigan to transfer him.

[Dunbar]

12 minutes ago, roughyed8 said:

To be fair when Edwards signed it was pre fixed term contracts and he became a wigan player for life, or until a the club deemed him surplus to requirements or another club came in with an bid acceptable to wigan to transfer him.

Yes, that is a very fair point.

But he was an unproven 17 year old as is Suaalii and my point is that the very brightest of talents have always drawn out cash to try and secure them.

[The storm]

4 hours ago, Dunbar said:

For me, yes.  Although Trueman is a quality young player.

The reason I say this is.  In all my time watching Great Britain and England play the Australians (and the club comps) we are often told that the Aussies are stronger, fitter, faster etc etc but the single biggest difference between the teams for as long as I can remember is the quality of the halves and in particular their ability to manage a game and control field position and possession through a quality kicking game.  Whether is Johns, Lockyer, Thurston or Cronk, they had players who could literally grind a team down with pinpoint kicking.

This is what we have lacked and in Smith I think we can have that.  His kicking game is as good in a junior player as I have ever seen.  If we had a George William or a Trueman alongside him for a running threat it would be a very good combination... as I say, Lewis Dodd could also develop in a really top quality half as well.

Harry Smith and Lewis Dodd and danny Richardson all come from widnes 

[Rupert Prince]

52 minutes ago, The storm said:

Harry Smith and Lewis Dodd and danny Richardson all come from widnes 

This is a good point.  You wonder how Saints missed Smith.  But its illustrates how Widnes lost its way.

Wigan are spreading their net, as far as a read it into Cumbria.

This is somewhat off topic.  And it appears that Souths have decided to make a point.  Of course if he makes good, he can still only fill one place and that means other players cannot... so someone who cannot play for Roosters can play for someone else.

[Eddie]

11 hours ago, GUBRATS said:

Biggest waste of money we've ever spent 

Aren’t you a Wigan Athletic fan? (genuine question, I thought you were?). 

[GUBRATS]

3 minutes ago, Eddie said:

Aren’t you a Wigan Athletic fan? (genuine question, I thought you were?). 

I've watched UTD much more than the Latics , but since they put the seats in OT I've only been twice , first watched Wigan for the first time in 75 In the FA Cup when they were non league 

[Eddie]

16 minutes ago, GUBRATS said:

I've watched UTD much more than the Latics , but since they put the seats in OT I've only been twice , first watched Wigan for the first time in 75 In the FA Cup when they were non league 

I remember watching Norwich play at Springfield Park once, must have been in the cup, late 80s maybe, proper dump that was! 
 

And here it is 

 

[GeordieSaint]

3 minutes ago, Eddie said:

I remember watching Norwich play at Springfield Park once, must have been in the cup, late 80s maybe, proper dump that was! 

Like the rest of Wigan...

[GUBRATS]

2 minutes ago, Eddie said:

I remember watching Norwich play at Springfield Park once, must have been in the cup, late 80s maybe, proper dump that was! 

A bit like wheldon Rd

[BrisbaneRhino]

I'll be very interested to see how Harry Smith develops, he looked very good in the junior tests vs Australia. To be fair to Wigan, I would expect a proper controlling halfback to take longer to be first team ready than a runner. 

The kid in this thread has been demonised a bit due to the fallout with Souths. Its fair enough to try to get what you can. The one demand I wouldn't give in to is for dispensation for him to debut before he's 18. 

[The storm]

12 hours ago, Tommygilf said:

It adds some perspective for those in Australia and indeed over here in the UK for how "big" the NRL really is.

Go and watch soccer then. 

 

No issue 

[Tommygilf]

8 hours ago, The storm said:

Go and watch soccer then. 

 

No issue 

The point is rather that the vast majority do exactly that. 

[FearTheVee]

I understand the point about its not him its his agent, but his agent isn't doing him any favours IMO - he'll just get a rep as a moneygrabber rather than getting his head down and working towards his NRL debut.  And he will be a young lad playing under more pressure than he should be.

Those demands are nonsensical.

[Sir Kevin Sinfield]

1 minute ago, FearTheVee said:

I understand the point about its not him its his agent, but his agent isn't doing him any favours IMO - he'll just get a rep as a moneygrabber rather than getting his head down and working towards his NRL debut.

Those demands are nonsensical.

They clearly weren’t happy with the offer from South and as the Roosters have offered more that seems justified. We don’t know how the negotiations went. Maybe South’s were trying to tie him down on a cheap 5 year deal before he made his NRL debut and the agent came back and said if it’s going to be a 5 year deal this is what we want. He’s signed a 2 year deal with the Roosters which points that way to me. 

[DoubleD]

12 hours ago, BrisbaneRhino said:

I'll be very interested to see how Harry Smith develops, he looked very good in the junior tests vs Australia. To be fair to Wigan, I would expect a proper controlling halfback to take longer to be first team ready than a runner. 

The kid in this thread has been demonised a bit due to the fallout with Souths. Its fair enough to try to get what you can. The one demand I wouldn't give in to is for dispensation for him to debut before he's 18. 

Why's that? Everyone who's seen him, including team mates at Souths said he was ready for first grade already. For me, 18 is too high an age limit, I'd like to see it reduced to 17. If Union wasn't on its ariss, there was a real danger he would have gone there, as he could have debuted earlier and made a name for himself. It is only a short career after all

[Sir Kevin Sinfield]

1 hour ago, DoubleD said:

Why's that? Everyone who's seen him, including team mates at Souths said he was ready for first grade already. For me, 18 is too high an age limit, I'd like to see it reduced to 17. If Union wasn't on its ariss, there was a real danger he would have gone there, as he could have debuted earlier and made a name for himself. It is only a short career after all

I believe it’s 16 for Super League Isn’t it? What about Internationals? We really should have parity across the game be it Super League, NRL or Internationals. Personally I think 16 is too young but for some they are probably ok to debut before they’re 18. I’d be happy to see it go to 17 across the board.

[DoubleD]

1 minute ago, Sir Kevin Sinfield said:

I believe it’s 16 for Super League Isn’t it? What about Internationals? We really should have parity across the game be it Super League, NRL or Internationals. Personally I think 16 is too young but for some they are probably ok to debut before they’re 18. I’d be happy to see it go to 17 across the board.

Internationals are 16

[The Rocket]

On 22/02/2021 at 00:39, Dunbar said:

but the single biggest difference between the teams for as long as I can remember is the quality of the halves and in particular their ability to manage a game and control field position and possession through a quality kicking game.

Couldn`t agree more with that, and was pretty much the same for the Kiwis as well, every year I used to scan the playing ranks hoping the Kiwis would be able to put a decent halves pairing together. Sometimes they`d have a halfback, like Stacey Jones but no decent five-eighth, rarely both, thankfully things have improved for them but they still lack depth.

I remember getting my hopes up about Piri Weepu, but he went to union.

[The storm]

On 21/02/2021 at 16:26, unapologetic pedant said:

As far as I`m aware he only started playing Union when he was offered a scholarship by a private school. Before that, he was a League junior. So the only reason anyone is weighing up his "code-hopping" potential, and trying to divine his plans relative to the timing of RU World Cups is the privileged place of RU in schools. Such calculations are not made of prodigious talents who played League at secondary school.

This point is worthy of consideration for those posters who on other threads seem to have accepted that playing Union at secondary school is a natural phenomenon. And who are content for NRL clubs to perpetuate the orthodoxy by offering contracts to schoolboy Union players, particularly in NZ where RU as of right dominates State schools as well as the private sector.

There are dozens on privelaged schools down under in both Australia and New Zealand where the nuances of the Union code are preached. 

 

Union remains at heart a privelaged sport in that in no other sport on earth is given such a prestigious and predujiced roles in educational institutions 

[The storm]

I'm willing to bet anyone £10 per bet that Dom Young earns more England caps than Joseph suaalli earns kangaroo caps