Sam Burgess again! He is on a downward spiral.

[Manfred Mann]

Sam Burgess has been pulled over by the police on the Hume Highway in Sydney, on his way to pick up his children. He was charged with driving an unregistered car, never having held a NSW driver's licence, and most important failing a roadside drugs test for cocaine. He will appear in court in May.

https://www.foxsports.com.au/nrl/nrl-premiership/nrl-2021-sam-burgess-arrested-allegedly-failing-a-roadside-drug-test-south-sydney-rabbitohs/news-story/095313252c90b02916f5e13937487417?utm_source=breaking_sportsmail&utm_medium=email&utm_campaign=crm&utm_content=statici

 

 

Sam Burgess has already been found guilty of intimidating his father in law. For that crime Burgess was sentenced to a two-year community corrections order and given a two-year apprehended violence order. Given his past record, the judge may not be lenient again this time.

What is the matter with this man? If he is found guilty no rugby league club will want to have anything to do with him as a coach in the future. At age 32 he appears to be destroying his life.

Edited February 22, 2021 by Manfred Mann

[Damien]

Very worrying. I hope he can get whatever help he needs and pull through this.

[Davo5]

4 minutes ago, Manfred Mann said:

Sam Burgess has been pulled over by the police on the Hume Highway in Sydney, on his way to pick up his children. He was charged with driving an unregistered car, never having held a NSW driver's licence, and most important failing a roadside drugs test for cocaine. He will appear in court in May.

https://www.foxsports.com.au/nrl/nrl-premiership/nrl-2021-sam-burgess-arrested-allegedly-failing-a-roadside-drug-test-south-sydney-rabbitohs/news-story/095313252c90b02916f5e13937487417?utm_source=breaking_sportsmail&utm_medium=email&utm_campaign=crm&utm_content=static

He has already been found guilty of intimidating his father in law. For that crime Burgess was sentenced to a two-year community corrections order and given a two-year apprehended violence order. Given his past record, the judge may not be lenient again this time.

What is the matter with this man? If he is found guilty no rugby league club will want to have anything to do with him as a coach in the future. At age 32 he is destroying his life.

Given NRL clubs have welcomed back the likes of Packer,Lodge etc and with all the off-season shenanigans that NRLplayers have & continue to get up to I don’t think this means clubs won’t employ him if he gets back on track.

[Manfred Mann]

7 minutes ago, Davo5 said:

Given NRL clubs have welcomed back the likes of Packer,Lodge etc and with all the off-season shenanigans that NRLplayers have & continue to get up to I don’t think this means clubs won’t employ him if he gets back on track.

But they are players. Sam Burgess has no playing prospects. He would like to be a coach, which is more demanding of a good character record than playing. Any criminal convictions will make him unsuitable for a most important leadership role in any club.

[Eddie]

Driving coked up on the way to collect your kids is a bizarre thing to do, he must be seriously troubled. Obviously he has to face the legal consequences but I hope he can also sort himself out. 

[The Rocket]

We all wonder why stars go off the rails when they retire but when you live in such a high pressure bubble when you`re playing , can`t look sideways without headlines, no wonder they cut-loose when they are free of it.

We`ve got Tom Trbojevic all over the news here tonight because he`s done his hammy again. Video footage has emerged of him having a footrace with some bloke the other night on the esplanade at a Manly, completely harmless bit of fun, you could see he wasn`t even sprinting, just having a bit of light-hearted fun with a fan, and now they`ve got him on the news having to apologise and humiliate himself, no wonder they go off the rails when it`s over.

[Davo5]

15 minutes ago, Manfred Mann said:

But they are players. Sam Burgess has no playing prospects. He would like to be a coach, which is more demanding of a good character record than playing. Any criminal convictions will make him unsuitable for a most important leadership role in any club.

Hmm Shane Flanagan & Paul McGregor.

And Andrew Johns seems to get plenty of media/coaching gigs.

[Spidey]

15 minutes ago, Eddie said:

Driving coked up on the way to collect your kids is a bizarre thing to do, he must be seriously troubled. Obviously he has to face the legal consequences but I hope he can also sort himself out. 

He tested positive for cocaine, that doesn't mean he was "coked up"

[gingerjon]

42 minutes ago, Manfred Mann said:

What is the matter with this man? If he is found guilty no rugby league club will want to have anything to do with him as a coach in the future. At age 32 he appears to be destroying his life.

What's the matter with this man appears to be that he's probably getting naff all support now that his playing days are over and he's facing the rest of his life being just another bloke.

We talk a good game when it comes to mental health but when it comes to dealing with what it actually looks like - violence, addiction, threatening behaviour, being a danger to yourself and others - we run away and blame the guy in the name of personal responsibility.

[Tommygilf]

4 minutes ago, gingerjon said:

What's the matter with this man appears to be that he's probably getting naff all support now that his playing days are over and he's facing the rest of his life being just another bloke.

We talk a good game when it comes to mental health but when it comes to dealing with what it actually looks like - violence, addiction, threatening behaviour, being a danger to yourself and others - we run away and blame the guy in the name of personal responsibility.

100%. The game is yet again all talk and no action.

[Hela Wigmen]

You can only help people that want to be helped. 

Burgess is a relatively young man who has gone through some pretty life altering experiences over the past couple of years with a retirement, the change in his personal circumstances and going to court and it being big news in Australia. 

[gingerjon]

4 minutes ago, Hela Wigmen said:

You can only help people that want to be helped. 

To an extent that's true but even people who don't want to be helped you can go a long way to stop them damaging themselves and other people.

But it is hard, and very unglamorous, work.

[Damien]

I wouldn't be too quick to blame the game. There are a myriad of reasons why people go off the rails and it becomes a downward spiral that quickly accelerates. One common theme I often see in these situations, and it is quite apparent with Brett Dallas too, is that family issues have a huge bearing and are a major cause of the issues that people have. Yes the game can have its support systems in place but some situations are far bigger than the game. That person also needs to reach out and want to avail of that support.

[Sir Kevin Sinfield]

It doesn’t sound good for the former England Rugby Union International 

[gingerjon]

3 minutes ago, Damien said:

I wouldn't be too quick to blame the game. There are a myriad of reasons why people go off the rails and it becomes a downward spiral that quickly accelerates. One common theme I often see in these situations, and it is quite apparent with Brett Dallas too, is that family issues have a huge bearing and are a major cause of the issues that people have. Yes the game can have its support systems in place but some situations are far bigger than the game. That person also needs to reach out and want to avail of that support.

Retirement and the time just before and just after are a significant trigger point though. You're right in the sense that the issue about not really wanting to address the dirty side of mental health - instead just making it all cat posters and 'talking' - goes wider than just rugby league.

[JohnM]

Sounds like he's trying to become a naturalised Australian sportsman. 

[whatmichaelsays]

1 hour ago, gingerjon said:

What's the matter with this man appears to be that he's probably getting naff all support now that his playing days are over and he's facing the rest of his life being just another bloke.

We talk a good game when it comes to mental health but when it comes to dealing with what it actually looks like - violence, addiction, threatening behaviour, being a danger to yourself and others - we run away and blame the guy in the name of personal responsibility.

Completely agree. 

The problem the RL (and to be fair, most professional sports) has is similar in many ways to the problems that the armed forces have when you consider the prevelance of drug and alcohol abuse in ex-squaddies. We take young blokes, put them in a highly regimented and structured environment, train them in an industry where the eminent skill is to get back up from a pretty big physical shock and spit them out into the big wide world when we're done with them - often with relatively few other life skills and - more often than not in RL's case - with not an awful lot of money for them to fall back on. Then we act shocked, stunned and furrow our brows when those same players find it difficult to go back into normal society. 

The sport doesn't take player welfare anywhere near as seriously as it likes to make out when those players are on the pay-roll, never mind when those players come off it. 

 

 

Edited February 22, 2021 by whatmichaelsays

[Eddie]

58 minutes ago, Spidey said:

He tested positive for cocaine, that doesn't mean he was "coked up"

Ah I assumed it meant he was under the include at that time.

[Dunbar]

1 hour ago, gingerjon said:

What's the matter with this man appears to be that he's probably getting naff all support now that his playing days are over and he's facing the rest of his life being just another bloke.

We talk a good game when it comes to mental health but when it comes to dealing with what it actually looks like - violence, addiction, threatening behaviour, being a danger to yourself and others - we run away and blame the guy in the name of personal responsibility.

I may be in the minority here but I think a 32 year old man who has two young children to support, and be a good dad to, should take personal responsibility for his actions.

The Israel Folau threads are covered in comments of people saying that there are consequences that come with actions and the same applies here with Burgess.  He had a good gig with Souths and an emerging media career - yet he is the one being convicted for intimidating behavior and driving under the influence.  Why should he not take responsibility for that?

[Wire quin]

1 hour ago, Spidey said:

He tested positive for cocaine, that doesn't mean he was "coked up"

What does it mean?

[gingerjon]

4 minutes ago, Dunbar said:

I may be in the minority here but I think a 32 year old man who has two young children to support, and be a good dad to, should take personal responsibility for his actions.

The Israel Folau threads are covered in comments of people saying that there are consequences that come with actions and the same applies here with Burgess.  He had a good gig with Souths and an emerging media career - yet he is the one being convicted for intimidating behavior and driving under the influence.  Why should he not take responsibility for that?

No one is saying, and I'm certainly not saying, that actions don't have consequences. Burgess absolutely needs to be sanctioned - whatever that looks like - for driving illegally with cocaine in his system, along with the other things going on.

But if we want those two children to have a father and a rugby league hero to have a positive life in retirement than we - as a game and as a society - have to accept that some people need help and without it they will sink. And it will often be people whose actions infuriate and disgust us the most who will need the most help.

[gingerjon]

8 minutes ago, Dunbar said:

Israel Folau

I'd say the distinction is that Folau broke a basic policy of the ARU and he did so whilst calmly and in his right mind (so far as anyone is aware).

His year at Catalan showed that, with the right incentives, he absolutely could keep his trap shut.

[Sir Kevin Sinfield]

2 minutes ago, Wire quin said:

What does it mean?

He’d taken cocaine in the last 2 to 4 days 

[FearTheVee]

5 minutes ago, Wire quin said:

What does it mean?

Depends - how long after use would said test identify it?

[whatmichaelsays]

19 minutes ago, Dunbar said:

I may be in the minority here but I think a 32 year old man who has two young children to support, and be a good dad to, should take personal responsibility for his actions.

For me, this isn't about saying that Burgess shouldn't be responsible for his actions.

Instead, it's about understanding whether ex-rugby league players seem to have a greater-than-average propensity to have these types of difficulties and, if they do, find out why that is and what rugby league could do differently to support it's ex-pros. Like I said, the military has a similar challenge but unfortunately, it's one that all of society ends up paying for. 

My maths and recollection might be slightly out here, but Sam's age means that he was probably in an RL academy system where it was relatively "hit or miss" whether clubs provided college or university courses for their academy players. I'm talking in general terms here as I don't know what non-rugby skills Sam has, but I don't think it's unreasonable for RL to question whether and how it is equipping its players for life after rugby. I also don't think it's unreasonable, given what the clubs ask these players to put themselves through (how many other industries ask young lads to pack in education opportunities for a very high-risk career opportunity?), for clubs to take that responsibility seriously. Sam is a bit of an outlier in terms of what he made from the game, but it's not as if playing RL sets many people up for life.   

Edited February 22, 2021 by whatmichaelsays