Sam Burgess again! He is on a downward spiral.

[Newguy]

2 hours ago, Davo5 said:

I’m pretty sure it was Sam himself that stood down from both Fox & Souths in order to contest the original charges which was successful bar the intimidation one which I believe  he’s appealing.

Bad behaviour  and indulging in recreational drugs hasn’t hampered Andrew Johns broadcasting career.

Deportation might hinder it though. Australia can be quite callous with dual citizens that break the law. 

[GUBRATS]

8 hours ago, Eddie said:

Just don’t drive until it is out of your system then. 

No , don't take illegal drugs ever 

[Adelaide Tiger]

3 hours ago, Newguy said:

Deportation might hinder it though. Australia can be quite callous with dual citizens that break the law. 

It depends on what you mean by callous.

Over the last 5 years over 1500 New Zealanders have been deported back to their country after being found guilty of criminal offences.  Some have been in Australia for just a short time whilst some have lived in Australia for 20 or 30 years since arriving as kids - now that might seem callous.

The Australian Migration Act 1958 states clearly ‘The purpose of deporting a person from Australia is to protect the safety and welfare of the Australian community’.  It is clear that the Aussie Govt will act upon this when the need arises.

[Newguy]

2 hours ago, Adelaide Tiger said:

It depends on what you mean by callous.

Over the last 5 years over 1500 New Zealanders have been deported back to their country after being found guilty of criminal offences.  Some have been in Australia for just a short time whilst some have lived in Australia for 20 or 30 years since arriving as kids - now that might seem callous.

The Australian Migration Act 1958 states clearly ‘The purpose of deporting a person from Australia is to protect the safety and welfare of the Australian community’.  It is clear that the Aussie Govt will act upon this when the need arises.

Yes that is exactly what I mean by callous, there is the rule of law and the spirit of the law. NZ has seen many people sent back who left NZ while very young and get sent back for life. often with no real connection any more to NZ. Look at the recent issue with young the Jihadi women in Turkey, she lived in NZ for a few years, became an Australian then the Aussies want to dump her back on NZ when the Turkish authorities wanted shot of her. As I say there is the rule of law and spirit of the law, so much for ANZAC mateship I guess. I realise that a majority of these criminals deserve what they get, but it is also used to clean up some Australian made social issues (Bikies), and then dump the problem on NZ.

Hopefully one day we can send back the White Nationalist bloke who murdered all those innocent people in Christchurch.

Edited February 23, 2021 by Newguy

[The Rocket]

20 hours ago, gingerjon said:

We talk a good game when it comes to mental health but when it comes to dealing with what it actually looks like - violence, addiction, threatening behaviour, being a danger to yourself and others - we run away and blame the guy in the name of personal responsibility.

It`s the same with the Tom Trbojevic episode yesterday, rather than hanging him out to dry in front of the national media, for what was essentially a bit of harmless fun, like you do when your young and full of beans, the bloody NRL or at least the club should step in and say publicly that he has nothing to answer for, leave him alone.

Support shouldn`t just occur when a player has done something wrong, but also standing up for them when the media pack are attempting to generate a headline with little respect for fairness or the truth.

The NRL and Manly are just kow-towing to the press and only encourage people to film everything players do, good or bad, that can then be taken out of context.

Public support from the game in situations like this may also lead to more positive player outcomes in the long run.

 

 

[Harry Stottle]

23 hours ago, Spidey said:

He tested positive for cocaine, that doesn't mean he was "coked up"

I couldn't make an 'experienced' distinction between the two Spidey, but to someone who is totally clean of ever participating with any such substance if one tests positive for cocaine then surely it is in the system and would by definition mean being "coked up", wouldn't it?

[Davo5]

18 minutes ago, Harry Stottle said:

I couldn't make an 'experienced' distinction between the two Spidey, but to someone who is totally clean of ever participating with any such substance if one tests positive for cocaine then surely it is in the system and would by definition mean being "coked up", wouldn't it?

The “high” after taking cocaine usually lasts for a short period I believe but can stay in your system and return positive tests for a few days afterwards  ,coked up I’d think refers to someone experiencing the early affects of the substance.

[Spidey]

3 minutes ago, Davo5 said:

The “high” after taking cocaine usually lasts for a short period I believe but can stay in your system and return positive tests for a few days afterwards  ,coked up I’d think refers to someone experiencing the early affects of the substance.

Yep, a good summary, I'd distinguish as being under the influence or not.   That has yet to be reported, only that he tested positive for it being in his system, that doesn't always mean under the influence

[Davo5]

3 hours ago, The Rocket said:

It`s the same with the Tom Trbojevic episode yesterday, rather than hanging him out to dry in front of the national media, for what was essentially a bit of harmless fun, like you do when your young and full of beans, the bloody NRL or at least the club should step in and say publicly that he has nothing to answer for, leave him alone.

Support shouldn`t just occur when a player has done something wrong, but also standing up for them when the media pack are attempting to generate a headline with little respect for fairness or the truth.

The NRL and Manly are just kow-towing to the press and only encourage people to film everything players do, good or bad, that can then be taken out of context.

Public support from the game in situations like this may also lead to more positive player outcomes in the long run.

 

 

I follow a few NRL related pages on social media and have noticed the incredible & nasty vitriol directed at players when they step out of line both on & off the pitch,the Burgess brothers have had their fair share of it over the years and it does seem to be on the increase.

[Forever Trinity]

19 hours ago, Eddie said:

Just don’t drive until it is out of your system then. 

Don't take illicit illegal drugs problem solved

[gingerjon]

31 minutes ago, Davo5 said:

I follow a few NRL related pages on social media and have noticed the incredible & nasty vitriol directed at players when they step out of line both on & off the pitch,the Burgess brothers have had their fair share of it over the years and it does seem to be on the increase.

As a partially related aside ... I am constantly surprised by the undisguised fury a lot of sports fans have towards the vast majority of people who play the sports they follow.

Social media amplifies it but it's always been there.

[hunsletgreenandgold]

Really tough to see and hear all this about big Sammy. He's been an absolute idol of mine, which feels really odd to say considering we're a similar age. That said, I'm really struggling to defend his behaviour over the past 12 months or so. Goes without saying I hope he starts to get the help he so clearly needs and the first step to that for me is feeling the consequences of his actions. 

[Tonka]

A quick google tells me coke is in your blood and saliva for about 2 days, urine for about 4 days and hair for up to 90 days.  This varies depending on quantity, etc.  Interestingly a cocaine metabolite (cocaethylene) is created when you have it with alcohol and can be detected in your urine up to 10 days after consumption.  I suspect that applies to most social use.

If it was a roadside test it was probably saliva which suggests he had it in the 48 hours before driving.  It doesn't necessarily follow that he'd be "under the influence" of it in the sense of being physically affected.

On a personal level I'm not overly quick to judge a young person for using recreational drugs (a hell of a lot of people do) but I expect this, with the other stuff he's been doing will affect his career prospects sadly, so to that extent he's bloody stupid.

Edited February 23, 2021 by Tonka

[Barry Badrinath]

23 minutes ago, Tonka said:

A quick google tells me coke is in your blood and saliva for about 2 days, urine for about 4 days and hair for up to 90 days.  This varies depending on quantity, etc.  Interestingly a cocaine metabolite (cocaethylene) is created when you have it with alcohol and can be detected in your urine up to 10 days after consumption.  I suspect that applies to most social use.

If it was a roadside test it was probably saliva which suggests he had it in the 48 hours before driving.  It doesn't necessarily follow that he'd be "under the influence" of it in the sense of being physically affected.

On a personal level I'm not overly quick to judge a young person for using recreational drugs (a hell of a lot of people do) but I expect this, with the other stuff he's been doing will affect his career prospects sadly, so to that extent he's bloody stupid.

also i believe stays in your hair strands for a longer period of time.

 

Remember when britney spears had her episode and shaved her head, it was labelled as being under duress, however at that time she was going through a custody battle, one of the allegations from her estranged spouse was, cocaine abuse'

[Barry Badrinath]

21 hours ago, whatmichaelsays said:

I don't want to come across as an apologist for Sam's poor decision making, because that's not what I'm trying to do. 

But I do think that it's worth asking questions as to whether RL players seem more likely than average to make bad decisios and, if so, ask why that is and if there is anything that can be done about it. You will never be able to stop people making bad decisions, but you can help them to make the right ones. 

Because aside from the "it's a decent human thing to do" argument, there is a reputational argument here. It's easy to write these guys off and tell them that they deserve everything they get, but it does RL's image no favours when our players are in the newspapers, in the courts or in The Priory. 

The armed forces thing is clearly not a like-for-like scenario, but I think there are enough parallels to make it a fair comparison. If the game is asking young kids to divert their attention to what is a high-risk (and often low reward) opportunity, it's not unreasonable to expect the game to help those young men divert their attention back to "Civvy Street" when their careers end - especially if that career ending wasn't planned. 

Is it a player welfare issue? Is it a training and education issue? Is it down to family circumstances? Are these poor decisions driven by financial pressures? Is mental health a factor? Is it simply down to the socio-economic background of where the majority of RL players come from? Whatever factors or combination of factors it is, there is both an ethical and a commercial justification for trying to address it. 

You're right, Sam did make a lot of money out of RL and I did say that he was an outlier. What it shows is that money alone doesn't help people make the right decisions but for every Sam Burgess, there and many many more Scott Moores, Malcolm Alkers, Chev Walkers, Ryan Baileys, Leon Pryces, Stuart Reardons, Zak Hardakers Brett Dallas' and that's just off the top of my head of SL players who have had brushes with the law relatively recently. 

Let's treat this issue like we should any other player welfare issue. As a sport we're having a debate about head injuries because there is evidence the RL players seem to show a greater propensity to develop signs of dementia at a young age. I'd argue that the same debate should be had if RL players have a greater propensity to make poor life choices that put them on the wrong side of the law. 

when you say 'recently' ?

[The Rocket]

1 hour ago, Davo5 said:

I follow a few NRL related pages on social media and have noticed the incredible & nasty vitriol directed at players when they step out of line both on & off the pitch,the Burgess brothers have had their fair share of it over the years and it does seem to be on the increase.

Yes I`ve seen the forums in Oz and they are shockers, really gross lowest common denominator stuff, things like referring to the Roosters as the `Rooters` and I`ve seen people saying things like `get a dog up ya` whatever that means, really pathetic stuff.

But back to my initial point I know a these blokes are getting a lot of support behind the scenes at the club, stuff like `Don`t worry mate it`ll all blow over` but it would be nice for the Clubs or the NRL to come out some times and show a bit of gumption and where a player really has done nothing wrong back them, instead of always playing the media game calling a press conference and offering up the sacrificial, I won`t say lamb  because lambs they`re not, but you know what I mean.

Just back the players occasionally instead of always playing the media`s game.

 

 

[Adelaide Tiger]

6 hours ago, Newguy said:

Yes that is exactly what I mean by callous, there is the rule of law and the spirit of the law. NZ has seen many people sent back who left NZ while very young and get sent back for life. often with no real connection any more to NZ. Look at the recent issue with young the Jihadi women in Turkey, she lived in NZ for a few years, became an Australian then the Aussies want to dump her back on NZ when the Turkish authorities wanted shot of her. As I say there is the rule of law and spirit of the law, so much for ANZAC mateship I guess. I realise that a majority of these criminals deserve what they get, but it is also used to clean up some Australian made social issues (Bikies), and then dump the problem on NZ.

Hopefully one day we can send back the White Nationalist bloke who murdered all those innocent people in Christchurch.

Tbh Newguy I am absolutely staggered that the NZ Govt haven’t sent the bloke back to Australia.

[The Rocket]

7 minutes ago, Adelaide Tiger said:

Tbh Newguy I am absolutely staggered that the NZ Govt haven’t sent the bloke back to Australia.

Probably not so much as in a case like this but I think sometimes Governments are concerned that a prisoner may not be treated as harshly or have their sentence changed if extradited. There is probably an element in this example of where the NZ public want to see this bloke rotting in one of their gaols where he will get no privileges and probably live permanently in fear of his life.

BTW in relation to our exchange yesterday I`ve have become a little concerned that some may view me as some drug taking libertine, I rarely drink and if I am going to be perfectly honest gave up all other recreational past times the day I met my wife, but I was young and very wild once, but still didn`t then or now condone dangerous and foolish behaviour that would put other peoples lives at risk.

 

[GUBRATS]

Anybody who takes cocaine is an idiot , be that once or more than once 

[graveyard johnny]

19 minutes ago, GUBRATS said:

Anybody who takes cocaine is an idiot , be that once or more than once 

there must be a hell of a lot of idiots around then

[GUBRATS]

5 minutes ago, graveyard johnny said:

there must be a hell of a lot of idiots around then

No need to reference cocaine to realise that , 90% of the people holding the steering wheel of a VAG product fit the description as well 

[Dunbar]

15 minutes ago, GUBRATS said:

No need to reference cocaine to realise that , 90% of the people holding the steering wheel of a VAG product fit the description as well 

As you know, I drive a VAG product and let me tell you my friend it doesn't half get me some...

Sorry, I apologise for that sentence.  Blimey, you're right, driving an Audi does have an influence on you.

[del capo]

7 hours ago, Adelaide Tiger said:

Tbh Newguy I am absolutely staggered that the NZ Govt haven’t sent the bloke back to Australia.

In the UK you  usually do your sentence before you get deported. Is it different down under ?

[Marauder]

On 22/02/2021 at 09:21, Hela Wigmen said:

You can only help people that want to be helped. 

Burgess is a relatively young man who has gone through some pretty life altering experiences over the past couple of years with a retirement, the change in his personal circumstances and going to court and it being big news in Australia. 

Such a short time after his career ended abruptly whilst he was at the top of the tree, I see the signs of someone who clearly needs help, he needs a talking to by someone who has been on the edge before he hits the bottom of the tree and you only have to look as far as Terry Newton.

[fieldofclothofgold]

Didnt his mother go live over there to be with her sons? If she is still over there it must be awful for her