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James Child on the LGBT Sport Podcast


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14 minutes ago, Johnoco said:

It can be a very lonely place to be a RL fan if you believe in strange things like expansion.

I understand what you say and would have agreed with the sentiment even up to a few years ago but is being gay seriously an issue today? Having known gay people come out in the 80's, I'd say not. This doesn't mean there are no homophobic people around but I'd argue that they are in such a minority as to effectively make no difference today.

Just 1 person can make a difference to be fair.

Its clearly not as much of an issue now compared to previous times, but still a significant one, especially in macho dominant environments like sports.

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30 minutes ago, Johnoco said:

It can be a very lonely place to be a RL fan if you believe in strange things like expansion.

I understand what you say and would have agreed with the sentiment even up to a few years ago but is being gay seriously an issue today? Having known gay people come out in the 80's, I'd say not. This doesn't mean there are no homophobic people around but I'd argue that they are in such a minority as to effectively make no difference today.

The poster is literally telling you their lived experience and you're just denying it out of hand based on having known some gay people in the 80's? I think you want to rethink. 

I was born to run a club like this. Number 1, I do not spook easily, and those who think I do, are wasting their time, with their surprise attacks.

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1 hour ago, Damien said:

Yes, thoroughly depressing. Without referees there is no junior game, I think spectators and parents need to remember that. Its one thing professional referees putting up with that, in the relative safety of the professional game, but I can imagine referees at junior and amateur games being fearful for their safety at times for next to no reward.

Having refereed at the junior & amateur level there were definitely some clubs that you preferred not to go to for those exact reasons and when I started refereeing I was in my mid 20s not 11 years old like James and others

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3 minutes ago, Johnoco said:

Either way, this is heading for the politics thread.

It shouldn't be because we shouldn't be extending the conversation beyond Rugby League. You are telling us about a welcoming, tolerant and inclusive workplace and I could tell you the same about mine.

But that's not the point.  We have people directly involved in Rugby League with negative experiences.... again either BAME players previously or LGBTQ now. Telling them that other places and environments are tolerant does nothing to solve their problems.

I used to be proud of Rugby League as a welcoming and tolerant sport but from what I hear from people living the experiences today we are miles away from where we should be. 

"The history of the world is the history of the triumph of the heartless over the mindless." — Sir Humphrey Appleby.

"If someone doesn't value evidence, what evidence are you going to provide to prove that they should value it? If someone doesn't value logic, what logical argument could you provide to show the importance of logic?" — Sam Harris

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10 minutes ago, Johnoco said:

Well I aren't going to disagree with most of that, it's fair.  Except that I think anyone could attend a RL match, grab the mic and declare they were gay and they'd be safe enough. 

Based on many years of attending RL games, that's my view. 

Most I know, young and old, either gender.... just wouldn't care.

Again, my personal experiences.... nowt else

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Comes across as a good bloke. I know he cops it a lot from fans, but I actually always rated him as one of our better refs too. I read somewhere that he took up the whistle as an 11yo kid, so he clearly loves the game. 

Everyone is entitled to handle their own situation as they see fit. But I have to say, I think he has handled it well. Neither in the closet, nor "shouting from the rooftops", just living his life as he wants and now that this interview came up, he didn't shy away from it.

Good to know he is only 37, he should be around for a few more years still. Average SL referee age seems to have dropped dramatically in the last few years, so it is important that these experienced ones stay on.

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1 hour ago, Johnoco said:

It can be a very lonely place to be a RL fan if you believe in strange things like expansion.

I understand what you say and would have agreed with the sentiment even up to a few years ago but is being gay seriously an issue today? Having known gay people come out in the 80's, I'd say not. This doesn't mean there are no homophobic people around but I'd argue that they are in such a minority as to effectively make no difference today.

You're literally responding to a gay man telling you that it's been a problem for him personally. He literally told you how uncomfortable it made him.

Just because things are better than they used to be, it doesn't mean that problem has gone away.

The thing is, if you're in a crowd of 10,000 people and one person gives you abuse (homophobic, racist, sexist or whatever) then that's going to cause the person on the receiving end to have a bad experience. I'm not trying to claim that there's a MAJORITY of homophobic, racist, sexist or whatever else people. But all it takes is one bad actor for someone to feel that this sport isn't for them. And that's not good enough. It's easy to say "well it's only 1 person in 10,000" or "it hardly ever happens" but every time it does happen, that's someone who feels rejected from our sport and it's not a position anyone should have to find themselves in.

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who gives a flying f? his personal life has nothing to do with his job, didn't know he was gay - not interested in his sexuality - if its an issue its only because he has made an issue of it 

see you later undertaker - in a while necrophile 

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2 minutes ago, graveyard johnny said:

who gives a flying f? 

The two people within the RFL who've had to be disciplined for homophobic abuse?

For starters.

Build a man a fire, and he'll be warm for a day. Set a man on fire, and he'll be warm for the rest of his life. (Terry Pratchett)

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Unfortunately like all walks of life , the RL community has idiots within it , and like in all walks of life those particular people will pick up on anything that makes somebody different to themselves and the majority , if by highlighting that difference in an abusive manner they think they can influence somebody ( usually an opponent or in the case of Mr Child's a referee ) they will do it , be that racism or homophobia or sexism , or fatist ( does that exist ? 🤔 ) , Or redhairist ( hi Robin ) , yes we must do all we can to stop it and indeed highlighting it is important 

Some people are just plain nasty and like to hurt and insult , indeed we see it all the time on these very boards ,

Quite often aimed at people because of where they were born , where they live and therefore the RL team they support 

Personally I don't give a toss what colour anybody is or what their sexual interests are 

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19 minutes ago, GUBRATS said:

 

Personally I don't give a toss what colour anybody is or what their sexual interests are 

don't forget your membership is due for renewing at the chinese bondage club soon mate (if you want priority on the choice of lockers renew early)

see you later undertaker - in a while necrophile 

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29 minutes ago, graveyard johnny said:

if its an issue its only because he has made an issue of it

That's clearly not true is it.

If his sexuality has been well known in Rugby League circles for a decade (as he says) then one player has abused him on the pitch with a homophobic slur.

And let's not even get into the player who thinks he is going to burn in a pit of fire for eternity.

I will say again. If gay or any LGBTQ or BAME players in our game tell us there is a problem, there is a problem. And individuals on here saying they don't judge on colour or sexuality then that is great, but that doesn't make the problem go away.

"The history of the world is the history of the triumph of the heartless over the mindless." — Sir Humphrey Appleby.

"If someone doesn't value evidence, what evidence are you going to provide to prove that they should value it? If someone doesn't value logic, what logical argument could you provide to show the importance of logic?" — Sam Harris

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2 minutes ago, Dunbar said:

That's clearly not true is it.

If his sexuality has been well known in Rugby League circles for a decade (as he says) then one player has abused him on the pitch with a homophobic slur.

And let's not even get into the player who thinks he is going to burn in a pit of fire for eternity.

I will say again. If gay or any LGBTQ or BAME players in our game tell us there is a problem, there is a problem. And individuals on here saying they don't judge on colour or sexuality then that is great, but that doesn't make the problem go away.

i will accept that dunbar  - maybe i should have said it only becomes an issue to the likes of us if he is making an issue of it - forgetting there are those that choose their weapons to bully from their arsenal of bigoted ideas.

see you later undertaker - in a while necrophile 

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6 hours ago, JonNgog said:

He was repentant, Folau was anything but. A fairly significant difference.

And of course repentant about drink driving. And beating up a student. And being a drug taking cheat. The guy obviously has issues. But I don't think stating hes repentant is going to fix them.

At least you know where you stand with Folau repugnant views; hes an extremist. Hardaker just comes across as not very nice.

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I had a long conversation on here a year or two back about Hardaker.  My view was that he had burned his chances while another poster said we (as a sport) had a duty of care to support him.

If a player has an addiction or other issues then yes, let's support them and provide rehabilitation. 

But knowing now that Hardaker used homophobic language to abuse one of the very few people in our sport who was known to be gay then the sport only had one duty.  To dismiss him.

I wouldn't tolerate homophobic language towards anyone in my workplace (let alone a gay colleague) and it would be instant dismissal for gross misconduct. 

The fact Hardaker is still playing professionally is a disgrace in my opinion. We cannot tolerate such things if we want to be recognised as an open, welcoming and family focused sport.

"The history of the world is the history of the triumph of the heartless over the mindless." — Sir Humphrey Appleby.

"If someone doesn't value evidence, what evidence are you going to provide to prove that they should value it? If someone doesn't value logic, what logical argument could you provide to show the importance of logic?" — Sam Harris

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9 minutes ago, thebrewxi said:

 Hardaker just comes across as not very nice.

maybe a drunk or drugged Hardaker comes across as not very nice like most laddish lads do in their early 20s - if i can un fastening him  from the trl crucifix for a moment am sure he's a good bloke really 

see you later undertaker - in a while necrophile 

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Its funny this comes up now, was having a conversation about Marcus Rashford and his impact, part of the conversation was everyone was along the lines that everyone should have a hero who is like them, whether that's colour, disability or sexuality. I loved the rainbow flags appearing when Catalans visited. BBC NW have been running a week of items on the local news about LGBTQ+ month and experiences of coming out. We have teams like Canalsiders who have visited Salford games and hopefully made to feel welcome.

In the ideal world "coming out" would be a thing of the past as everyone gets on with life without fear.

All I care about is how well he does the job and that others allow him to do so.

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4 minutes ago, graveyard johnny said:

maybe a drunk or drugged Hardaker comes across as not very nice like most laddish lads do in their early 20s - if i can un fastening him  from the trl crucifix for a moment am sure he's a good bloke really 

Nah.... he int johnny lad.... bit of a nob

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Last season the bloke had to referee a player who gave him homophobic abuse and someone who thinks he will go to hell when he dies for the crime of his sexuality. He reffed in front of crowds that had been fined for homophobic chants and a few more that will have had more than a couple of bad eggs.

No one's trying to say things haven't got better but to pretend everything's fine I cannot comprehend.

I was born to run a club like this. Number 1, I do not spook easily, and those who think I do, are wasting their time, with their surprise attacks.

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11 minutes ago, Johnoco said:

Sorry but what you're hoping for there is utopia and it's never gonna happen - ever. You have to accept some people just will not like you, for a myriad of reasons. Saying things are pretty much the same as they used to be is to totally ignore all the changes that have happened in recent years regarding people's views on sexuality. 

Look at the soaps for example, what used to be a big talking point (eg gay couple in a soap) doesn't even register now - you don't even think anything of it. No, things aren't perfect but being gay isn't the big deal or hindrance it was not that many years ago. That's pretty incredible progress, not to be dismissed because a very very very small percentage of people don't see it like that.

Have to admit I am a little narked about the TV show ' it's a sin ' as the casting of gay people only of the gay characters is a bit naughty , if someone suggested gay actors wouldn't be considered for straight roles , all hell would break out 

Doubt this thread will last long on here now 

 

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