Wales RL developments

[DoubleD]

Good article here, and lots of positives.

Wales Rugby League undergoes a change of direction – TotalRL.com | Rugby League Express | Rugby League World

The part that did stand out is this, which is very progressive:

“Our new strategy is to build from the bottom up by creating sustainable community rugby league clubs and not just teams. Each new club has to run, as a minimum, a men’s and women’s side at open age and a junior team, with an intention to also establish wheelchair and physical disability (PDRL) sides in the future, all with support from us as an NGB with our community coaches.

“We have already launched an initiative for parents of those on the elite player pathways to attend a mandatory presentation on anti-doping and also on concussion (brain injury awareness), making Wales Rugby League the first national governing body to do so. This will be rolled out to all community clubs, schools and national sides alongside all of our safe guarding programmes. I initiated a re-structure our board to allow a 60-40 gender split of directors, we advertised nationally and now have 10 non-executive directors, of whom four are women.”

[Damien]

Sounds fantastic and is certainly the way to go. There really is a huge distinction between a club and just a team.

[DoubleD]

2 minutes ago, Damien said:

Sounds fantastic and is certainly the way to go. There really is a huge distinction between a club and just a team.

I think this is the way to go in Wales too. Too often, they've had sides which are just fillers during the union off season and subsequently don't fulfil fixtures at the end of the season. This creates far more sustainability and inclusiveness, as well as a level of professionalism with the anti-doping/concussion initiatives

[Damien]

Just now, DoubleD said:

I think this is the way to go in Wales too. Too often, they've had sides which are just fillers during the union off season and subsequently don't fulfil fixtures at the end of the season. This creates far more sustainability and inclusiveness, as well as a level of professionalism with the anti-doping/concussion initiatives

Exactly. Teams that revolve around RU players playing in the off season may be a starting point but they always peter out. Creating proper clubs is certainly the way forward.

[GeordieSaint]

It’s the sensible model for any location. 

[welshmagpie]

I’m the biggest supporter of Gareth Kear, he’s really leading Wales RL into a new era of professionalism and consistent progress.

We’re starting to see signs whereby community clubs are beginning to acquire premises which give them a consistent home and potential sources of income.

[The Rocket]

3 hours ago, DoubleD said:

Each new club has to run, as a minimum, a men’s and women’s side at open age and a junior team, with an intention to also establish wheelchair and physical disability (PDRL) sides in the future,

What happens though if a club can`t run a women`s team, say through just lack of interest by the local women that is, where does that leave them. All of the above are worthy goals but is it wise to make them deal breakers. Over here League Tag is growing exponentially for the women with teams run by the clubs, could that be an alternative if womens` numbers were insufficient for the tackle version of the game.

[welshmagpie]

8 minutes ago, The Rocket said:

What happens though if a club can`t run a women`s team, say through just lack of interest by the local women that is, where does that leave them. All of the above are worthy goals but is it wise to make them deal breakers. Over here League Tag is growing exponentially for the women with teams run by the clubs, could that be an alternative if womens` numbers were insufficient for the tackle version of the game.

A very good question and I think the WRL stance has been of late: put serious measures in place to try, stick with it for a whole, let us help you and if it doesn’t work we use it as a lesson to move forward and reevaluate.

[The Rocket]

12 minutes ago, welshmagpie said:

A very good question and I think the WRL stance has been of late: put serious measures in place to try, stick with it for a whole, let us help you and if it doesn’t work we use it as a lesson to move forward and reevaluate.

Worth thinking about the League Tag if your involved. It`s been a smash hit over here for the Women, right across the State. The Ladies can still play in the club colours and on game day and has been as successful in being a pathway to the tackle version team if they get one up as well.

Just a quick example, where I live there is an 8 team League-Tag ladies comp, but when they tried to switch to a tackle comp they could only get enough for 4 teams, gives you a rough idea of the conversion rate. It`s growing fast so I can see a representative calendar on the horizon as well.

 

[Hela Wigmen]

6 minutes ago, The Rocket said:

Worth thinking about the League Tag if your involved. It`s been a smash hit over here for the Women, right across the State. The Ladies can still play in the club colours and on game day and has been as successful in being a pathway to the tackle version team if they get one up as well.

Just a quick example, where I live there is an 8 team League-Tag ladies comp, but when they tried to switch to a tackle comp they could only get enough for 4 teams, gives you a rough idea of the conversion rate. It`s growing fast so I can see a representative calendar on the horizon as well.

 

Are you employed by League Tag, by chance?

[The Rocket]

2 minutes ago, Hela Wigmen said:

Are you employed by League Tag, by chance?

No not at all, but I am more than well aware of getting in at the ground level with these things otherwise you end up with what Touch Football is like in your country where incredulously it is associated mainly with union.

Plus it is just a really good way of getting large number of women involved with the club and especially if they don`t want to play tackle. BTW the same goes for blokes as well you know.

[Yakstorm]

It's a great strategy and so long as it's enforced using common sense (ie. Don't just automatically exclude a club if they tick two of the three boxes), it will help Wales Rugby League long term.

For me, my favourite part of the strategy is the focus on the Women's, Wheelchair and PDRL parts of the game as I feel this is where Wales can achieve significant growth far quicker and cheaper than they can in the 13-a-side Men's.

[Clogiron]

RL has spent 125 years trying to put down roots in Wales without success, will it ever realise it's not going to happen. It's taken many fine player's from there when it could flash the cash and offer them more than they were getting in union but those days are long gone so that involvement has disappeared and the chance's of creating a strong club side have always been and will continue to be impossible, as that 125 years should tell them the people just aren't interested enough.

[Damien]

8 minutes ago, Clogiron said:

RL has spent 125 years trying to put down roots in Wales without success, will it ever realise it's not going to happen. It's taken many fine player's from there when it could flash the cash and offer them more than they were getting in union but those days are long gone so that involvement has disappeared and the chance's of creating a strong club side have always been and will continue to be impossible, as that 125 years should tell them the people just aren't interested enough.

Has it really spent 125 years trying to put down roots? Can you please highlight what the game has actually done and what money has been spent?

As far as I can see it has always treated Welsh RL with disdain. With a little more effort in the early days of the Northern Union things could have been much different. Instead we let clubs wither away. Wales generally has been seen as a source of players and no more. Once RU went professional, officially, this dried up and the game realised it would need to make more effort. 

As an aside some of the best players I have ever played with were Welsh. Wales has some great Rugby players that love the game. Opportunity to play back home and lack of competitive leagues is often the issue.

[Eddie]

52 minutes ago, Clogiron said:

RL has spent 125 years trying to put down roots in Wales without success, will it ever realise it's not going to happen. It's taken many fine player's from there when it could flash the cash and offer them more than they were getting in union but those days are long gone so that involvement has disappeared and the chance's of creating a strong club side have always been and will continue to be impossible, as that 125 years should tell them the people just aren't interested enough.

That’s the spirit, retreat to the heartlands quick. 

[gingerjon]

12 hours ago, The Rocket said:

What happens though if a club can`t run a women`s team,

Given where the clubs are likely to be based the chances of them genuinely being unable to find 13 women who can get together to play rugby 4-5 times a year (for the time being) are close to zero.

If nothing else, it's a good way of testing out whether the clubs really do have the grassroots connections the WRL want them to have.

[fighting irish]

2 hours ago, Clogiron said:

RL has spent 125 years trying to put down roots in Wales without success, will it ever realise it's not going to happen. It's taken many fine player's from there when it could flash the cash and offer them more than they were getting in union but those days are long gone so that involvement has disappeared and the chance's of creating a strong club side have always been and will continue to be impossible, as that 125 years should tell them the people just aren't interested enough.

This is such a naive comment.

Not only is the game growing in Wales under the auspices of the most professionally organised administration we've ever had, with significant sponsorship and grant funding, you are ignoring the fact that the growth of the game was suppressed and its devotees, oppressed by RaRa's pogrom against even amateur RL, for the first 100 and odd years.

The reason it wasn't taken up earlier has nothing to do with a lack of interest. 

[JM2010]

2 hours ago, Clogiron said:

RL has spent 125 years trying to put down roots in Wales without success, will it ever realise it's not going to happen. It's taken many fine player's from there when it could flash the cash and offer them more than they were getting in union but those days are long gone so that involvement has disappeared and the chance's of creating a strong club side have always been and will continue to be impossible, as that 125 years should tell them the people just aren't interested enough.

I read the word positive in an earlier post and actually thought that it won't take long for someone to shoot it down!

[Whippet13]

Gareth Kear was on 42-20 a couple of weeks ago, very much echoes the positive comments on here and worth a listen: 

https://forty20rl.podbean.com/e/forty20-not-live-17th-february-2021/

[unapologetic pedant]

17 hours ago, The Rocket said:

No not at all, but I am more than well aware of getting in at the ground level with these things otherwise you end up with what Touch Football is like in your country where incredulously it is associated mainly with union.

Plus it is just a really good way of getting large number of women involved with the club and especially if they don`t want to play tackle. BTW the same goes for blokes as well you know.

Some admirable heavy lifting on this thread, Rocket. I`m afraid it could be a while before all this cuts through over here though.

Also in Queensland. I was reading an interview on the QLD RL site with the female president of Rockhampton Brothers, who stressed that female participation was a priority for her. However they were struggling to get the numbers for their girls teams from 13s upwards. Girls were drifting away from the game at 12. Some talk of them possibly feeling scared to step up.

She appeared unaware of the NSW example of using League Tag to address the problem and keep people involved.

[The Frying Scotsman]

23 hours ago, DoubleD said:

Good article here, and lots of positives.

Wales Rugby League undergoes a change of direction – TotalRL.com | Rugby League Express | Rugby League World

The part that did stand out is this, which is very progressive:

Each new club has to run, as a minimum, a men’s and women’s side at open age and a junior team, with an intention to also establish wheelchair and physical disability (PDRL) sides in the future, all with support from us as an NGB with our community coaches.

 

I get it that they want to have substance, roots, longevity etc.

But surely kids sport is what is needed for that? And not women's open age amateur sport, or the wheelchair stuff.

They have imposed a criteria per new club  of:

1 Men's Team (90% of adult players?)

1 Women's Team (9% of adult players?)

1 junior team (Could be any age)

With a view to adding:

1 Wheelchair Team (1 % of adult players?)

1 Physical Disability team (6 teams in the whole of England)

 

I mean.... Is there a huge demand for Rugby League among the Welsh Disabled community that exists nowhere else? 

Are Welsh women queueing up to play Rugby League? 

If there is minimal insistence on junior teams, how are these clubs going to find players in future? Surely the way to grow a club is to push kids participation in a number of age groups... And corresponding parents get involved in coaching/admin/support etc etc.

You need an indoor venue for the wheelchair stuff, so really how many start-up clubs are going to have a pitch AND an indoor hall?

The whole thing seems fairly arbitrary. Unless I have missed something?

[Clogiron]

Nothing surprising in the replies from the dreamer's but the reality is after 125 years of private individuals/ groups trying to create teams there is still nothing substantial to show in Wales. The RL has tried to create interest with internationals when there was more and stronger converts to  choose from, but missed the boat as it has done so many times over the years. The game has a pitiful record in trying to expand or even support some of the clubs in it's so called heartland's. We may think it's the greatest game but many millions fail to see the attraction. If you think a World Cup is going to change that well ponder on the follow up that happened after the last one here in 2013.

The only really positive note that RL has had for years was Toronto which seemed too good to be true and was! But those at the helm of the game couldn't see the opportunities it may offer before the s hit hit the fan big time and if they believe that vindicated there stance nothing more needs to be said.

[Eddie]

12 minutes ago, Clogiron said:

Nothing surprising in the replies from the dreamer's but the reality is after 125 years of private individuals/ groups trying to create teams there is still nothing substantial to show in Wales. The RL has tried to create interest with internationals when there was more and stronger converts to  choose from, but missed the boat as it has done so many times over the years. The game has a pitiful record in trying to expand or even support some of the clubs in it's so called heartland's. We may think it's the greatest game but many millions fail to see the attraction. If you think a World Cup is going to change that well ponder on the follow up that happened after the last one here in 2013.

The only really positive note that RL has had for years was Toronto which seemed too good to be true and was! But those at the helm of the game couldn't see the opportunities it may offer before the s hit hit the fan big time and if they believe that vindicated there stance nothing more needs to be said.

 

47 minutes ago, The Frying Scotsman said:

I get it that they want to have substance, roots, longevity etc.

But surely kids sport is what is needed for that? And not women's open age amateur sport, or the wheelchair stuff.

They have imposed a criteria per new club  of:

1 Men's Team (90% of adult players?)

1 Women's Team (9% of adult players?)

1 junior team (Could be any age)

With a view to adding:

1 Wheelchair Team (1 % of adult players?)

1 Physical Disability team (6 teams in the whole of England)

 

I mean.... Is there a huge demand for Rugby League among the Welsh Disabled community that exists nowhere else? 

Are Welsh women queueing up to play Rugby League? 

If there is minimal insistence on junior teams, how are these clubs going to find players in future? Surely the way to grow a club is to push kids participation in a number of age groups... And corresponding parents get involved in coaching/admin/support etc etc.

You need an indoor venue for the wheelchair stuff, so really how many start-up clubs are going to have a pitch AND an indoor hall?

The whole thing seems fairly arbitrary. Unless I have missed something?

Actually no, the masters game is the way forward I think, as well as kids. Middle aged people are more likely to have money and time to invest in clubs. 

[DEANO]

More chance of platting fog than making a success of RL in Wales 

[The Frying Scotsman]

4 minutes ago, Eddie said:

 

Actually no, the masters game is the way forward I think, as well as kids. Middle aged people are more likely to have money and time to invest in clubs. 

Seriously?

Masters is the way to grow a sport? 

I know of governing bodies who actively discourage veterans teams in their sport, as it simply hinders growth. It blocks up court/pitch time, and uses players who would otherwise be kids coaches/referees/judges etc.

Do you have any evidence of how this kind of Masters model can grow a sport? (Just any sport, anywhere I mean).