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3 minutes ago, unapologetic pedant said:

Not me. At least not for a long time.

It`s possible to be a fan of club and game in equal measure. And important for smaller sports.

I agree it is, doesn't change the reality for the majority though.

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1 hour ago, Tommygilf said:

The bolded bit is one of the defining characteristics of this sport and almost any sport - most people are fans of clubs first.

As someone who predominantly follows football, I actually think RL is pretty unique in that RL fans tend to put the game ahead of their club. I was genuinely surprised at just how much RL fans will support clubs/national teams other than their own, something which rarely (if ever) happens in football. From reading comments on here and elsewhere and learning more about RL I’ve since grasped that this is natural of course, as the stature of RL is much smaller so there’s a greater need for everyone to pull together. There is constant theme of ‘survival’ among RL fans. Football being the size it is it’s much more selfish, with each of us looking out for our own.

While it’s commendable how well RL fans get on with each other, the drawback is the lack of needle. Rivalry/needle creates headlines, spikes interest. Even the supposed bigger rivalry between St Helens and Wigan, I’ve seen fans on here say they wouldn’t begrudge the other team win. And the club world challenge, pretty much every English RL fan wants to see the English team win. Contrast this with football. Whoever Man U (or Liverpool, Arsenal etc) are playing in the Champions League, fans of every other club will support the foreign opposition. If the result goes against the English team the comment section in articles light up. 

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1 minute ago, DC77 said:

As someone who predominantly follows football, I actually think RL is pretty unique in that RL fans tend to put the game ahead of their club. I was genuinely surprised at just how much RL fans will support clubs/national teams other than their own, something which rarely (if ever) happens in football. From reading comments on here and elsewhere and learning more about RL I’ve since grasped that this is natural of course, as the stature of RL is much smaller so there’s a greater need for everyone to pull together. There is constant theme of ‘survival’ among RL fans. Football being the size it is it’s much more selfish, with each of us looking out for our own.

Completely agree. The passion and interest in the sport as whole (rather than just for one club) is one of the great things about British rugby league. 

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3 minutes ago, Johnoco said:

Yes and the reason they don’t? 

Why are you asking me this?!

30 years ago they would have done now they don’t because they have central, presumably well-paid WRU contracts.

‘Tis a pity they don’t come north anymore. They enhanced our game.

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3 minutes ago, Click said:

You don't think getting more players that are exciting to watch playing RL will benefit RL long term?

If it did English RL would currently be revelling in the long-term benefits brought by the scores of exciting Welsh RU players who came north before 1995. As it is, we`re not in fabulous shape.

If on the other hand Wales RL systems were discovering and developing exciting players who were regularly coming north for the away fixtures of strong Welsh RL clubs, then we would be enjoying long-term benefits.

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18 minutes ago, Man of Kent said:

Completely agree. The passion and interest in the sport as whole (rather than just for one club) is one of the great things about British rugby league. 

Do you not think there’s also a drawback though?

RL has a great community feel about it. I just think though it could do with a bit of the unsavoury stuff (fans, managers, media etc). I don’t think I ever celebrated a goal (and win) as much as Liverpool beating Chelsea 1-0 in the 2005 Champions League semi-final as Mourinho was the opposition manager, and with the scruffiest goal ever (which he dubbed the ‘ghost goal’). Hating someone, and beating them, the elation is incredible.  Controversy creates headlines, pulls in viewers, garners clicks etc, the main reason Roy Keane is hired by Sky. RL has loads of great characters/people (Barry McDermott in the Rob Burrow documentary just one of many). That side is fabulous. But it think it’s missing that other element.

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4 minutes ago, Johnoco said:

I’m asking you because you are one of the main proponents of ‘look after the heartlands’. And whilst Welsh RU players switched codes with the money being the main incentive, when the opportunity to do so in their natural code arose, the flow dried up. 
 

This is the result of not developing the game and relying on code switchers.

The days of picking off Welsh RU internationals are long gone so we’re left with pursuing the only realistic option - signing up Welsh youngsters, cf. Regan Grace.

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6 minutes ago, DC77 said:

Do you not think there’s also a drawback though?

RL has a great community feel about it. I just think though it could do with a bit of the unsavoury stuff (fans, managers, media etc). I don’t think I ever celebrated a goal (and win) as much as Liverpool beating Chelsea 1-0 in the 2005 Champions League semi-final as Mourinho was the opposition manager, and with the scruffiest goal ever (which he dubbed the ‘ghost goal’). Hating someone, and beating them, the elation is incredible.  Controversy creates headlines, pulls in viewers, garners clicks etc, the main reason Roy Keane is hired by Sky. RL has loads of great characters/people (Barry McDermott in the Rob Burrow documentary just one of many). That side is fabulous. But it think it’s missing that other element.

Rugby league is rooted in its Northern communities, that is a strength and a weakness. But without that strength, it would be extremely weak.

There’s plenty of pettiness in RL, isn’t there? Everyone hates Wigan and Leeds etc.

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6 minutes ago, Johnoco said:

Picking off anyone is not a sustainable long term plan. Players like Regan Grace should have been the aim decades ago. 

Should have done both, yep.

Maybe they tried to but RL was anathema (as the programme makes clear). I don’t know, I’m too young to remember RL development in Wales 30 years ago.

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5 hours ago, Bleep1673 said:

David Watkins, Captain of Wales & British Lions tours RU, signed for Salford RL and was banned, as usual.

After he retired from playing (for Swinton BTW), he got a job commentating for the BBC for Union games, his first job was at Cardiff Arms Park. The Security turned him away, and told the BBC none of the RFU's will let him in.

Made me laugh when the RFU today said that respect was a core value of their sport. 

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On 01/03/2021 at 14:45, Big Picture said:

Not even the top SL clubs can offer the sort of money players can get in the Gallagher Premiership and Pro14, they can't afford to.  Even after the Premiership salary cap was cut by almost 30% it's still 5 million € and the Pro14 pays roughly the same as the Premiership.

What’s that in £s then you have to realise premiership squads are virtually twice the size of SL squads. The big difference between the codes for the top players are the international top ups. 

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23 minutes ago, bobbruce said:

What’s that in £s then you have to realise premiership squads are virtually twice the size of SL squads. The big difference between the codes for the top players are the international top ups. 

They're not twice as big; Bristol Bears' 2020-21 squad lists 42 players according to Wikipedia and SL teams often use 30 during a season so that's less than half again as many players.  Even allowing for the fact that the SL cap just covers the top 25 players on a team, RU still pays a lot more than RL now, even after that 28% cut in their salary cap.

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15 minutes ago, Big Picture said:

They're not twice as big; Bristol Bears' 2020-21 squad lists 42 players according to Wikipedia and SL teams often use 30 during a season so that's less than half again as many players.  Even allowing for the fact that the SL cap just covers the top 25 players on a team, RU still pays a lot more than RL now, even after that 28% cut in their salary cap.

This seems an awfully selective comparison to paint a false picture. Anyone with a passing knowledge of RU and RL knows that RU squad sizes are way bigger, a matchday squad alone is 23 with clubs requiring multiple reserves for positions like prop and hooker in the wider squad. For example looking at Exeter they have 6 hookers and 12 props alone in their squad.

For the last two seasons that I can see comprehensive data for it shows that half the RU Premiership teams have squads of 60+ in 2019/20. The same was the case in 2018/19 too:
https://www.rugbypass.com/news/analysis-premiership-squads-and-homegrown-percentages-for-2019-20/

Also many Super League teams have squads around 25 and yes while some may go over and into the Academy I'm sure the same can be said for RU going outside the immediate squad too.

 

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2 hours ago, Big Picture said:

They're not twice as big; Bristol Bears' 2020-21 squad lists 42 players according to Wikipedia and SL teams often use 30 during a season so that's less than half again as many players.  Even allowing for the fact that the SL cap just covers the top 25 players on a team, RU still pays a lot more than RL now, even after that 28% cut in their salary cap.

They are nearly twice as big, the Salary cap only applies to the first 25 players in a Super League squad, whereas in Union its 45 

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