Elstone Departs

[Lowdesert]

3 minutes ago, gingerjon said:

God would take one look at the level of incompetent dipshuttery on display and exclaim, "Jesus H Christ, will you look at this ..."

Jesus? Falau is still in Australia.

[GUBRATS]

So the SL chairman appoint a ' Boss ' , then don't back his ideas , then sack him 

So who is actually at fault ?

[ATLANTISMAN]

Gentlemen without saying Robert did a good bad job (I am not the one to judge) however its a dam difficult position to be in looking back over the last 30/40 years.

 

David Oxley Fantastic administrator ahead of his time sadly retired IMHO too early 

Maurice Lindsay Was in the right place for the SKY deal but commercially not much happened outside of this

Neil Tunnicliffe  Remember him not many will

Richard Lewis Did a great job Sport England etc (TV side/commercially disaster IMG brought in for what? SKY were the only ones ever in the frame) 

Nigel Wood Knocked by many on here but left the game with the best TV deal ever 

Ralph Rimmer Has done a really good Job in difficult circumstances 

 

Just my opinion

 

P 

 

 

 

[The Future is League]

4 hours ago, Blind side johnny said:

Remind me again, what were his KPI's?

Negotiate a new TV contract, how's that going? Rebrand the clubs, Hows that going?and renegotiate the French TV deal for the the Catalans and we all know how that went and bring more sponsorship into Super League hows that going?

The only things i have seen so far in his 2 years in free pizzas, perhaps you can point out the amount of money he has brought into Super League and the positves

4 hours ago, Blind side johnny said:

Elstone's departure is a SL issue, not an RFL one. Just getting this established before the "blame the RFL" merchants chime in.

Its still money Rugby League in this country can't afford to lose on somebody who has not even covered his and his staff wages.

He has without doubt has been an abject failure

[The Future is League]

47 minutes ago, ATLANTISMAN said:

Gentlemen without saying Robert did a good bad job (I am not the one to judge) however its a dam difficult position to be in looking back over the last 30/40 years.

 

David Oxley Fantastic administrator ahead of his time sadly retired IMHO too early 

Maurice Lindsay Was in the right place for the SKY deal but commercially not much happened outside of this

Neil Tunnicliffe  Remember him not many will

Richard Lewis Did a great job Sport England etc (TV side/commercially disaster IMG brought in for what? SKY were the only ones ever in the frame) 

Nigel Wood Knocked by many on here but left the game with the best TV deal ever 

Ralph Rimmer Has done a really good Job in difficult circumstances 

 

Just my opinion

 

P 

 

 

 

Agree about David Oxley and uncle Mo was good for the sky deal and was a very good PR person who got the game column inches, but it ends there for Mo

Neil Tunnicliffe came from Student Rugby League i think but i stand to be corrected but completely out his depth and the last i heard he was involved with union.

Richard Lewis came up short sadly as i think he had the connections to make a real difference, but was always going to return to tennis

Nigel wood was and still a Rugby League man and on reflection was better than given credit form but a bit insular at times

I can't make my mind up about Ralph Rimmer, but he has had a lot to deal with in his defence as you say. 

[The Future is League]

7 hours ago, Clogiron said:

Right up there with Brian Barwick and his little black book of contacts

That wouldn't be hard.

I wish someone would list the positives Robert Elstone has brought to the game and please no more pizza comments

[Man of Kent]

Little bit worried about the Sky deal. It runs out this year and we don’t have a new one over the line. 

[Tommygilf]

1 hour ago, Man of Kent said:

Little bit worried about the Sky deal. It runs out this year and we don’t have a new one over the line. 

Apparently they want to have it sorted before the start of the season.

[Yakstorm]

I'm surprised by comments that Richard I Lewis didn't make a real difference. In his tenure, he:

- Reunited BARLA and the RFL after 30 years of separation

- Oversaw the addition of the Catalan Dragons

- Completely overhauled our sponsor portfolio, attracting the likes of Engage, Carnegie, Nestle, Valvoline and Gillette and all for dollar values we have never quite gotten back to.

- Turned the RFL finances around and reunited the RFL and Super League.

- Had Eurosport interested in televising the Championship (which Sky blocked but then gave a regular Thursday TV slot to the division)

- Established the RLEF, which has done wonders for the growth of the game across Europe.

- Secured us our best ever funding from Sports England and rolled out a significant participation / development programme.

- Super League also enjoyed some of its largest crowds and TV audiences under his reign.

Now yes he did introduce licensing which had both it's pros and cons and Celtic Crusaders were arguably rushed, but honestly where the game was in 2002 and where he left it in 2012 were light years apart in all the major KPIs.

Nigel Wood undid, IMO, a lot of what Lewis had implemented and cost the game a lot more than Lewis. In fairness he did secure two good TV deals in his time, but other KPIs around crowds, TV audiences, sponsorship, Government funding, exposure, participation did drop.

Rimmer, and I will admit that I didn't rate him when he got the role, has possibly done as solid of a job as he could of with what he's inherited. He's renewed the Challenge Cup TV deal at the same amount, secured some desperately needed Government funding and the OurLeague app which he has invested in, has actually played an important role during COVID.

[Oldbear]

23 minutes ago, Yakstorm said:

I'm surprised by comments that Richard I Lewis didn't make a real difference. In his tenure, he:

- Reunited BARLA and the RFL after 30 years of separation

- Oversaw the addition of the Catalan Dragons

- Completely overhauled our sponsor portfolio, attracting the likes of Engage, Carnegie, Nestle, Valvoline and Gillette and all for dollar values we have never quite gotten back to.

- Turned the RFL finances around and reunited the RFL and Super League.

- Had Eurosport interested in televising the Championship (which Sky blocked but then gave a regular Thursday TV slot to the division)

- Established the RLEF, which has done wonders for the growth of the game across Europe.

- Secured us our best ever funding from Sports England and rolled out a significant participation / development programme.

- Super League also enjoyed some of its largest crowds and TV audiences under his reign.

Now yes he did introduce licensing which had both it's pros and cons and Celtic Crusaders were arguably rushed, but honestly where the game was in 2002 and where he left it in 2012 were light years apart in all the major KPIs.

Nigel Wood undid, IMO, a lot of what Lewis had implemented and cost the game a lot more than Lewis. In fairness he did secure two good TV deals in his time, but other KPIs around crowds, TV audiences, sponsorship, Government funding, exposure, participation did drop.

Rimmer, and I will admit that I didn't rate him when he got the role, has possibly done as solid of a job as he could of with what he's inherited. He's renewed the Challenge Cup TV deal at the same amount, secured some desperately needed Government funding and the OurLeague app which he has invested in, has actually played an important role during COVID.

I think my frustration with Lewis was that had he just stuck around another couple of years then the game would have been in such better shape. I feel that Wood was a bit of a war leader type of guy, good in times of difficulty but not one to make real progress, Rimmer seems cut from the same cloth. The challenge for the sport is whether Rimmer can be the right post pandemic leader, and of course will he be actually be able to lead, without the big SL clubs getting in the way. Elstone I feel was just a salary wasted.

[The Frying Scotsman]

6 hours ago, The Future is League said:

That wouldn't be hard.

I wish someone would list the positives Robert Elstone has brought to the game and please no more pizza comments

Sponsorship.

The social media output is now aligned with a recognisable national brand.

[The Frying Scotsman]

4 hours ago, Yakstorm said:

 

Nigel Wood undid, IMO, a lot of what Lewis had implemented and cost the game a lot more than Lewis. In fairness he did secure two good TV deals in his time, but other KPIs around crowds, TV audiences, sponsorship, Government funding, exposure, participation did drop.

That guy was really was an embarrassment to the sport.

It was like having big Keith from The Office running the game. 

Every time he opened his mouth, you could sense another few thousand in lost revenue.

[M j M]

1 hour ago, The Frying Scotsman said:

That guy was really was an embarrassment to the sport.

It was like having big Keith from The Office running the game. 

Every time he opened his mouth, you could sense another few thousand in lost revenue.

After all these years we still can't have a serious conversation about Wood's role and legacy because people simply can't get past what he looked like. It's tedious tbh and, allied to some over-hagiographising of Richard Lewis, makes for some very simplistic analyses.

 

[Lowdesert]

11 hours ago, Tommygilf said:

Apparently they want to have it sorted before the start of the season.

Still the same messages and unclear according to Carter.  Doesn’t know what is happening with the TV deal either.

I would have thought Elstone would have been tasked to present a Report (with evidence) on exactly what actual progress is with everything he was responsible for.

https://www.examinerlive.co.uk/sport/rugby-league/super-league-tv-deal-elstone-19974264

[Tommygilf]

1 hour ago, Lowdesert said:

Still the same messages and unclear according to Carter.  Doesn’t know what is happening with the TV deal either.

I would have thought Elstone would have been tasked to present a Report (with evidence) on exactly what actual progress is with everything he was responsible for.

https://www.examinerlive.co.uk/sport/rugby-league/super-league-tv-deal-elstone-19974264

Yeah that's the same article I'd read from Shaw with Carter. 

Given the standard of Elstone's "report" into Toronto I wouldn't have had my hopes up. That said I honestly believe that was cynical and if he had a cause he properly believed in (like himself) he'd do a better job of it! 

I was always worried when Elstone would swerve certain questions at Season launches etc by saying things like "I'm just the marketing man". It seems like he was given authority to do big things with a majority of clubs support, but when out on a limb fell back to the "just a marketing man" persona. I think he was paid in line with a proper exec but wasn't given either the authority or power to do anything. I don't necessarily blame the clubs for not giving him that, its not like he made a public pitch for his vision for the game everyone could buy into or not to get support. 

I think this whole episode will have tainted the reputation of its champions.

[Lowdesert]

16 minutes ago, Tommygilf said:

Yeah that's the same article I'd read from Shaw with Carter. 

Given the standard of Elstone's "report" into Toronto I wouldn't have had my hopes up. That said I honestly believe that was cynical and if he had a cause he properly believed in (like himself) he'd do a better job of it! 

I was always worried when Elstone would swerve certain questions at Season launches etc by saying things like "I'm just the marketing man". It seems like he was given authority to do big things with a majority of clubs support, but when out on a limb fell back to the "just a marketing man" persona. I think he was paid in line with a proper exec but wasn't given either the authority or power to do anything. I don't necessarily blame the clubs for not giving him that, its not like he made a public pitch for his vision for the game everyone could buy into or not to get support. 

I think this whole episode will have tainted the reputation of its champions.

I’d have kept him at work for as long as I needed him.  They will have paid him up anyway.  It would be interesting to see what he has done versus what it was worth, including the 750k Rothschild bill.

From the link, it seems that Carter at least is still undecided on what kind of relationship/agreement is needed with the RFL.  But as you said Tommy, communication lines are down.

[Blind side johnny]

16 hours ago, The Future is League said:

Negotiate a new TV contract, how's that going? Rebrand the clubs, Hows that going?and renegotiate the French TV deal for the the Catalans and we all know how that went and bring more sponsorship into Super League hows that going?

The only things i have seen so far in his 2 years in free pizzas, perhaps you can point out the amount of money he has brought into Super League and the positves

Its still money Rugby League in this country can't afford to lose on somebody who has not even covered his and his staff wages.

He has without doubt has been an abject failure

Whatever you do, don't read the original posts before replying, will you?

[The Future is League]

9 minutes ago, Blind side johnny said:

Whatever you do, don't read the original posts before replying, will you?

Strange reply to a question

[ATLANTISMAN]

It is all well and good us keyboard warriors having a go however I am certain its a very difficult job.

Many seem to knock rugby league and its administrators for the heck of it, we are so self critical sometimes so anyway as I have time to kill on the train here are a few positives that I can see since I fell in love with the game 40 years ago.

* International expansion beyond our wildest dreams (One only has to look at the RLEF website) 

* Clubs well established outside of the heartlands London/Newcastle etc

* Apart from Wakefield and Castleford (Who are desperate to move) clubs in new stadiums or upgrades 

* 3 divisions with plenty of expansion clubs

* GB/England able to draw 40/50000 + crowds in London (Remember Wembley/White City anyone 9/10000)

* 2 professional French teams in the UK competition 

* Record amount of coverage on TV

* World Cup expansion from literally zero (A 4 team comp)

 

Paul

 

[The Future is League]

17 minutes ago, ATLANTISMAN said:

It is all well and good us keyboard warriors having a go however I am certain its a very difficult job.

Many seem to knock rugby league and its administrators for the heck of it, we are so self critical sometimes so anyway as I have time to kill on the train here are a few positives that I can see since I fell in love with the game 40 years ago.

* International expansion beyond our wildest dreams (One only has to look at the RLEF website) 

* Clubs well established outside of the heartlands London/Newcastle etc

* Apart from Wakefield and Castleford (Who are desperate to move) clubs in new stadiums or upgrades 

* 3 divisions with plenty of expansion clubs

* GB/England able to draw 40/50000 + crowds in London (Remember Wembley/White City anyone 9/10000)

* 2 professional French teams in the UK competition 

* Record amount of coverage on TV

* World Cup expansion from literally zero (A 4 team comp)

 

Paul

 

It probably is, but Elstone was well paid and had his own staff as well. If he didn't think he was capable of doing it he should have refused the job as his total failure at the job won't look at all good on his CV

[ATLANTISMAN]

3 minutes ago, The Future is League said:

It probably is, but Elstone was well paid and had his own staff as well. If he didn't think he was capable of doing it he should have refused the job as his total failure at the job won't look at all good on his CV

Plenty of jobs in football it would not surprise me to see him pop up at a Championship club.

 

P 

[The Future is League]

3 minutes ago, ATLANTISMAN said:

Plenty of jobs in football it would not surprise me to see him pop up at a Championship club.

 

P 

They would have to be desperate in my opinion after his shambles with our game

[steve oates]

2 hours ago, ATLANTISMAN said:

It is all well and good us keyboard warriors having a go however I am certain its a very difficult job.

Many seem to knock rugby league and its administrators for the heck of it, we are so self critical sometimes so anyway as I have time to kill on the train here are a few positives that I can see since I fell in love with the game 40 years ago.

I don't think they do it for the heck of it! It's always dissapointing when our top people can't make any progress, so maybe people who love the game are just frustrated and letting off some steam on here.

It was the SL bosses who organised for someone to go looking for private equity in the run up to the SKY deal. I suppose we can say that Elstone who had long talks with several potential PE companies was successful in showing the SL bosses that the game doesn't have the potential to expand and make big money (that grows the game and pays the privaye equity people interest) in doing so.

The only isssue here appears to be that even if a big deal had come along certain clubs would not have gone for it anyway, and it needed unanimity. So why did the others even engage him??.

Probably the same sort of desperation the fans clearly feel............. 

 

[Tommygilf]

2 hours ago, The Future is League said:

They would have to be desperate in my opinion after his shambles with our game

Plenty of desperate/shambolic football league clubs

[Tommygilf]

4 hours ago, Lowdesert said:

I’d have kept him at work for as long as I needed him.  They will have paid him up anyway.  It would be interesting to see what he has done versus what it was worth, including the 750k Rothschild bill.

From the link, it seems that Carter at least is still undecided on what kind of relationship/agreement is needed with the RFL.  But as you said Tommy, communication lines are down.

I get the sense that this whole scenario has thrown a lot of people like Carter who had either supported Elstone from the outset or come to support him through his actions/opinions. You also have some clubs where there is a renewed sense of direct involvement from the Chairman/owners vs the CEOs. He mentions him and Mike Rush being involved over looking into the ins and outs of the current TV deal previously but now it seems like Eamonn McManus is taking a far more hands on approach. Who knows whether at say Huddersfield its Thewlis or Davy that sits in on these meetings either and that must create a confusing mish mash of decision makers too. 

Carter and Pearson at Hull have now both suggested that they would be willing to cede representation to a smaller group of other clubs on an executive board. I can't imagine Leeds, Saints and Wigan doing the same.