has banning the shoulder charge led to more head concussions?

[graveyard johnny]

seems to be more and more incidents of concussion since players were banned from using the shoulder charge, forwards going at it as tough as they ever did now seem to be forced into clumsy (not deliberately dirty last min plays) with spare arms and heads all over the place - in all my years in watching rl - head knocks seem to be more common than ever- sure the shoulder charge is aggressive - hurts and is there to make a statement - young sbw and adrian morley would not have existed without it- the play is body to body unless a player is slipping in to a tackle of course- in fact shouldnt the players themselves vote as to whether or not to bring it back- the prospect of never seeing another "big hit" is quite depressing 

[The Rocket]

26 minutes ago, graveyard johnny said:

seems to be more and more incidents of concussion since players were banned from using the shoulder charge, forwards going at it as tough as they ever did now seem to be forced into clumsy (not deliberately dirty last min plays) with spare arms and heads all over the place - in all my years in watching rl - head knocks seem to be more common than ever- sure the shoulder charge is aggressive - hurts and is there to make a statement - young sbw and adrian morley would not have existed without it- the play is body to body unless a player is slipping in to a tackle of course- in fact shouldnt the players themselves vote as to whether or not to bring it back- the prospect of never seeing another "big hit" is quite depressing 

Little bit different `body-to-body` or the old full-frontal `brick wall` type hit compared to shoulder cocked with knees bent driving hit that has no margin for error, the problem with that sort of tackle is that if it did go wrong players were knocked senseless, we can`t go back to that. 

I was seeing kids mimicking SBW type hits in junior League and it had to stop.

As Warren Ryan said: " the games tough enough without shoulder charges."

[Dunbar]

40 minutes ago, graveyard johnny said:

seems to be more and more incidents of concussion since players were banned from using the shoulder charge, forwards going at it as tough as they ever did now seem to be forced into clumsy (not deliberately dirty last min plays) with spare arms and heads all over the place - in all my years in watching rl - head knocks seem to be more common than ever- sure the shoulder charge is aggressive - hurts and is there to make a statement - young sbw and adrian morley would not have existed without it- the play is body to body unless a player is slipping in to a tackle of course- in fact shouldnt the players themselves vote as to whether or not to bring it back- the prospect of never seeing another "big hit" is quite depressing 

Couple of points from me.

Firstly, it really is impossible to determine whether head knocks are more common now as the medical teams and officials are so focused on it.  Players are attended to who would have just 'walked it off' in years gone by. Identifying more head injuries does not mean there are more in absolute terms. Identifying more is a very good thing of course.

So many head knocks and HIA/concussions are for players making tackles as they come into contact with hips or shoulders of the ball carrier or suffer accidental head clashes with team mates attempting the tackle. 

Put these together and I think it is nigh on impossible to determine the effect of banning the shoulder charge on the number or head injuries. 

[Rupert Prince]

46 minutes ago, graveyard johnny said:

seems to be more and more incidents of concussion since players were banned from using the shoulder charge, forwards going at it as tough as they ever did now seem to be forced into clumsy (not deliberately dirty last min plays) with spare arms and heads all over the place - in all my years in watching rl - head knocks seem to be more common than ever- sure the shoulder charge is aggressive - hurts and is there to make a statement - young sbw and adrian morley would not have existed without it- the play is body to body unless a player is slipping in to a tackle of course- in fact shouldnt the players themselves vote as to whether or not to bring it back- the prospect of never seeing another "big hit" is quite depressing 

The game is faster, and players, the forwards more elusive.  Maybe?  But are there more head knocks?    I think there are more knee injuries, maybe players are hit in falling over as 2nd men are rushing in.

[Sir Kevin Sinfield]

Are there more incidents of concussion or is it just that they are highlighted more now. Players now leave the field for an assessment after a head knock when previously they stayed on the field and went under the radar as the game carried on.

[graveyard johnny]

a shoulder charge is pre meditated and aimed at the body - head shots are mostly from clumsy last second  decisions when there are limited options 

[Chris22]

I have wondered the same. If you go in to a tackle with the shoulder, you create space between your head and the ball carrier's head. Banning the shoulder charge may lead more players to tackle 'front-on' creating the potential for more accidental head to head contact.

I do agree with the tougher stance we have taken on shoulder charges to the head over the last decade, but not convinced an outright ban makes it much safer. All anecdotal I know!

[GUBRATS]

No 

Bottom line is legal tackles are still made with the shoulder leading the contact , but should involve more control bringing the arms in , the charge just gave licence to ' wing it ' these are professional sportsmen , we should expect them to be able to tackle legally without contact with the opponent's head , if they can't , go and find a different sport 

[BrisbaneRhino]

People talk about shoulder charges as though they were always part of the game.  A defender turning side on as a runner hits them might have been common, but the sort of charges SBW and Burgess used to commonly make were not a big part of the game in the 80s and 90s. 

They were banned because they are awful technique and designed purely to hurt the runner. Most importantly as evidence arose that long term brain injuries were becoming a potential existential threat to the game, administrators realised they couldn't allow them to continue.  All you'd have to do when the NRL/RFL tries to defend its record on head injuries is play a video montage of shoulder charges leading to concussions overlaid with commentators screaming about 'great hits' while the runner is knocked senseless and no penalty given.

 

[bobbruce]

On 06/03/2021 at 22:00, graveyard johnny said:

a shoulder charge is pre meditated and aimed at the body - head shots are mostly from clumsy last second  decisions when there are limited options 

Part of the issue with shoulder charges was the shear force of the impact. They were becoming like little car crashes and head injuries/concussion was coming from the head snapping forward at such force. Like a car crash that allowed the brain to impact the inside of the scull causing concussions. Even if you take contact with the head out they were still becoming a problem that the NRL/RFL couldn’t ignore. 

[RP London]

On 06/03/2021 at 19:55, graveyard johnny said:

seems to be more and more incidents of concussion since players were banned from using the shoulder charge, forwards going at it as tough as they ever did now seem to be forced into clumsy (not deliberately dirty last min plays) with spare arms and heads all over the place - in all my years in watching rl - head knocks seem to be more common than ever- sure the shoulder charge is aggressive - hurts and is there to make a statement - young sbw and adrian morley would not have existed without it- the play is body to body unless a player is slipping in to a tackle of course- in fact shouldnt the players themselves vote as to whether or not to bring it back- the prospect of never seeing another "big hit" is quite depressing 

At the same time as shoulder charges were banned the knowledge around concussion and "head injuries" grew rapidly. The idea that a concussion happens even when there is no head contact, while not new, is now more and more looked at by those on the side lines. The fact that a shoulder charge even when done correctly and goes no where near the head can cause a whiplash effect and therefore concussion would suggest that IF it had stayed there would have been more HIAs from those types of hits. 

While there has been a rise in the HIA that is not due to extra body on body hits or high hits necessarily but simply a rise in awareness and medical rules that mean that you are more carful with players now. This is a good thing. 

The conclusion you have jumped to reminds me of a story of a company that was selling its goods to Japan. they changed a minor thing on packaging and had great sales so pat themselves on the back only to find out that a Japanese person had bought some in the UK and liked them, wrote an article in the magazine they worked for and off the back of that sales went up, they would have done so without the change being made to the packaging. You need to look at the picture as a whole rather than a small piece of the picture which could just be a number of coincidences.