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"Why do Australia not want to play us on tour?" 

"Why can they just organise an international calendar without us?"

"They just think they're better than us, arrogant bar-stewards"

England talking about Australia or everyone else in Europe or the northern hemisphere talking about England?

Its good to see that Rimmer reciprocated the desire to have regular games, but a pity that wasn't apparent when they agreed to play a game against the exiles or that they are determined to play the exiles.

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We should be playing the French mid-season once a year and it should always be played in France at a different city location every year. To say we have agreed to play the exiles this year is a ri

Wane has spoke about playing the Exiles for about nine months now, originally as an end of year game but it went quiet when he got Covid and Super League started unraveling at the end of last year thr

"Why do Australia not want to play us on tour?"  "Why can they just organise an international calendar without us?" "They just think they're better than us, arrogant bar-stewards" Engla

We should be playing the French mid-season once a year and it should always be played in France at a different city location every year.

To say we have agreed to play the exiles this year is a ridiculously weak excuse, they should at least be honest and say we want a tougher game in a WC year.

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8 minutes ago, Tommygilf said:

"Why do Australia not want to play us on tour?"

I think one of the main problems is Tommy, and this was exemplified by this years State of Origin, that by the end of the season, and it`s a long season, a lot of people are done with the League for another year.

Any representative calendar we have will most likely have to be sandwiched in mid-season somewhere.

However I still think that a Kangaroo tour could probably be sold every four years, but it`s not going to rate much down here due to the time differences, so it would have to pay for itself up your way, which is probably feasible.

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Just now, The Rocket said:

I think one of the main problems is Tommy, and this was exemplified by this years State of Origin, that by the end of the season, and it`s a long season, a lot of people are done with the League for another year.

Any representative calendar we have will most likely have to be sandwiched in mid-season somewhere.

However I still think that a Kangaroo tour could probably be sold every four years, but it`s not going to rate much down here due to the time differences, so it would have to pay for itself up your way, which is probably feasible.

My point was actually more in reference to the 2019 Lions tour where Australia set up a tournament where they played the Kiwis and Tonga but reneged on wanting to play the GB Lions. Its the hypocritical sentiment we complain about Australia having yet we are the biggest practicioners of

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6 minutes ago, Tommygilf said:

My point was actually more in reference to the 2019 Lions tour where Australia set up a tournament where they played the Kiwis and Tonga but reneged on wanting to play the GB Lions. Its the hypocritical sentiment we complain about Australia having yet we are the biggest practicioners of

Yeah I see your point. It`s a funny thing this aversion you have to playing the French, they are really the only half decent legitimate rivals you have up there.

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Wane has spoke about playing the Exiles for about nine months now, originally as an end of year game but it went quiet when he got Covid and Super League started unraveling at the end of last year through injuries and Covid related unavailability, despite John Kear and Wales offering to play, and then it’s been mentioned for much of the off season and has been scheduled for June this year. It would appear that the Exiles are his preferred opponents.

As for why we don’t play France, who knows? I won’t blame the lack of a mid season break because we could even have an annual end of season game before we inevitably play New Zealand. That would be nice. 

Our arrogance is a strange one, though. People here are quick to point the finger at Australia but we should be looking at ourselves and our own arrogance in that we have France, a nation that could and should (though not always the case for various reasons), be able to put out a competitive side against us and we simply don’t play them. 

For all of Australia’s past ‘crimes’, they’re now partly responsible for the development of some of the other Southern Hemisphere nations and have an Oceania Cup, which is not clear cut and offers up some very interesting games. Tonga’s emergence on the international scene coupled with Fiji and PNG’s improvement has really elevated the standards of the second tier nations and I dare say, they’ll be Tier One in the future. As much as an expanded Tier One sounds fantastic and it certainly is for the game of Rugby League, England’s position worries me. There’s a famous saying that if you’re standing still, you’re going backwards and that’s what I fear for England and for the northern hemisphere as a whole.

While we’re run in the fashion we are here and while the other northern hemisphere nations do the best they can, the gap between England and the best and Tier Two in the Southern Hemisphere and the northern hemisphere gets wider and wider and England could well be looking at slipping down the world rankings, if they haven’t already, in the near future.

In true northern hemisphere fashion, there’s no strategy here and we just bumble along hoping we somehow win a World Cup without an actual plan or roadmap of how we expect to do that and hope that, if we do, things magically fall into place and the game experiences a huge boom here. 

 

 

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I’m always concerned with injuries versus France because the majority of the French team is made up of the Catalan players. I feel that’s unfair for the Dragons. 

Although NZ play mid season, their players are more spread between all NRL teams and therefore less liability. 

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England needs France as a secon (semi-)powerhouse in Europe that at least has a relevant (25%?) chance to win one match

 

And rugby league needs to develop a stronger footing in the richest and biggest (population wise) country it already has a relevant foothold in

 

And no Vichy excuses, French Rugby League was very strong for several decades after WWII

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The fact Australia now has five nations around them that they can play and have a competitive match against has only happened because the NRL has invested in growing those nations at both the junior and senior levels.

Since 2010 the NRL has paid for Development officers to be based in the key markets of Tonga, Samoa, PNG and Fiji.

Since 2013 the NRL has underwritten an annual Pacific Test and help fund the PNG Hunters and more recently has been contributing to the Silktails.

It has introduced things like the Pasifika programmes for upcoming and Elite players of Polynesian and Melanesian heritage and of course there have been copious things done at a Junior level to help encourage participation in Australia within these culture groups.

Some of these programs have been extended or are also being used to help the likes of Lebanon, Greece and Italy as well setting up future opportunities in India and South America.

On the flip side, what is England / RFL doing? There is little being done at the top or at the grassroots to help create potential opposition. 

Surely if there is no faith in Wales or France being competitive, play a manufactured Scotland, Ireland or Italian team.

We've seen in the past, on the few times England has played either Ireland or Scotland, that they can draw crowds and draw TV audiences over a million.

Whilst England would still win to begin with, at least it would start something.

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Surely if there is no faith in Wales or France being competitive, play a manufactured Scotland, Ireland or Italian team.

We've seen in the past, on the few times England has played either Ireland or Scotland, that they can draw crowds and draw TV audiences over a million.

Whilst England would still win to begin with, at least it would start something.

 

 

Definitely!

 

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Echo this, England begging Australia to come and play us whilst doing nothing to build Wales and France up is a pity. Think we missed a trick when we dropped Crusaders (terrible owners) from SL but if there is less money coming in,  I'd like to see us bite the bullet and say that internationals are the key. 

That means saving a chunk of that money every year to build a SL standard facility in Wales and ringfencing. 

With a bit of vision, a post SL tri or four nations comp not including a southern hemisphere team that draws crowds and eyeballs is possible. 

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3 hours ago, ShropshireBull said:

Echo this, England begging Australia to come and play us whilst doing nothing to build Wales and France up is a pity. Think we missed a trick when we dropped Crusaders (terrible owners) from SL but if there is less money coming in,  I'd like to see us bite the bullet and say that internationals are the key. 

That means saving a chunk of that money every year to build a SL standard facility in Wales and ringfencing. 

With a bit of vision, a post SL tri or four nations comp not including a southern hemisphere team that draws crowds and eyeballs is possible. 

Tbh a tournament with France, Wales, England and maybe Jamaica would work well.

 Even if England were also playing Down Under or vs NZ in a home series, it would still be worth playing these games with a group of players from SL to represent England as long as they still play under the official England banner and not as the Knights.

Knights imo are best left as a touring side to PNG or Fiji where they will still draw a crowd. France don't want to play the Knights imo.

 

 

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On 08/03/2021 at 12:11, Tommygilf said:

"Why do Australia not want to play us on tour?" 

"Why can they just organise an international calendar without us?"

"They just think they're better than us, arrogant bar-stewards"

England talking about Australia or everyone else in Europe or the northern hemisphere talking about England?

Its good to see that Rimmer reciprocated the desire to have regular games, but a pity that wasn't apparent when they agreed to play a game against the exiles or that they are determined to play the exiles.

If everyone else follows Hull's threatened example we may yet get to see England v France this year:

https://www.hulldailymail.co.uk/sport/rugby-league/rugby-league-news/adam-pearson-hull-fc-exiles-5095390

 

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Personally, I think it was a massive mistake for the RFL to cut funding to Scotland and Wales shortly after the 2013 World Cup. Whilst people can argue whether or not it's the RFL's responsibility to develop the game in these countries, it most definitely is in their interests to develop the game in these countries, in order to help produce competitive nations to play against.

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22 hours ago, Yakstorm said:

 and of course there have been copious things done at a Junior level to help encourage participation in Australia within these culture groups.

People of Polynesian and Melanesian heritage didn`t need any encouragement to participate in RL in Australia. The rates of involvement among those groups were already disproportionately high. Migration from the Islands and NZ was all that was required for success. Any NRL programmes were pushing at an open door.

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6 hours ago, Southerner80 said:

Tbh a tournament with France, Wales, England and maybe Jamaica would work well.

 Even if England were also playing Down Under or vs NZ in a home series, it would still be worth playing these games with a group of players from SL to represent England as long as they still play under the official England banner and not as the Knights.

Knights imo are best left as a touring side to PNG or Fiji where they will still draw a crowd. France don't want to play the Knights imo.

 

 

You've stole my idea. Yep Eng, France , Wales and Jam. Go and get a tv deal so that we can pay for Wales and Jam to centrally contract players (split with their current teams) so they have full time squads. England play France and Wales away but Jam and the Final in England. 4 weeks in Oct/Nov on FTA (or Sky if it covers the squads for Wales and Jam) and there's your tournament. Commit to it, grow it and we have something special there.  

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In the past 15 years or so in the Northern Hemisphere we've had: two full time French club teams in the Leagues, a full time and subsequently 2 part time Welsh teams in the Leagues, both France and Wales qualifying for a 4 nations. Yet England's interest in playing these nations has declined massively.

We've also, and I think this is critical, had a Scotland team capable of being the northern hemisphere's "Tonga", nearly beating England (they were at half time) and being the first team to take a point from one of the big 3 in the 4 nations with a draw against New Zealand. Yet England have chosen not to play them, even as a warm up for a World Cup or tour.

Even Ireland with a competitive 2017 World Cup squad were not built upon.

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I think Scotland, Ireland, Wales, France, Canada, USA and Jamaica should be playing each other and leave England out. 

 

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2 minutes ago, fighting irish said:

I think Scotland, Ireland, Wales, France, Canada, USA and Jamaica should be playing each other and leave England out. 

 

France, Scotland, Ireland and Wales play most years in European Championships and/or Qualifiers for the World Cup. England just don’t play. 

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Just now, Hela Wigmen said:

France, Scotland, Ireland and Wales play most years in European Championships and/or Qualifiers for the World Cup. England just don’t play. 

Yes I know mate, I just think the inclusion of the Americas, brightens the whole thing up, gives it a fresh look and will (no doubt) assist the America's with recruitment and development. 

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4 minutes ago, fighting irish said:

I think Scotland, Ireland, Wales, France, Canada, USA and Jamaica should be playing each other and leave England out. 

 

They already do, in 2 separate tournaments that despite their best efforts are relatively low profile.

England are the nation most capable of bringing in the media coverage, public awareness, and in the long term financial interest in any games or tournament. Which is why England's policy of splendid isolation to these other countries is most worrying.

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Just now, fighting irish said:

Yes I know mate, I just think the inclusion of the Americas, brightens the whole thing up, gives it a fresh look and will (no doubt) assist the America's with recruitment and development. 

You’d need some finance involved if you wanted to send players across to the Americas, though having an invited nation to a competition could work. 

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