Heartland expansion v non heartland expansion

[Cumbrian Mackem]

6 minutes ago, GUBRATS said:

I was being slightly sarcastic in part referencing RLs sourcing of ' pension topping Aussies ' , whereas the PL pays for luxury yachts instead  

The way the premier league is going it will be private islands for them to moor their luxury yachts next.

[GUBRATS]

1 minute ago, Cumbrian Mackem said:

The way the premier league is going it will be private islands for them to moor their luxury yachts next.

As the Euro millions advert goes " wether it's a yacht big enough to have its own swimming pool , or a swimming pool big enough to have its own yacht ? "

[Tommygilf]

11 minutes ago, The Rocket said:

The best example that I can give you of replenishing playing stocks and fan interest is the Wests Tigers. Neither club from that joint venture had won a premiership in 36 years, in fact for Western Suburbs it had been 53 years.

 When West Tigers won the premiership in 2005 they gained a whole new legion of fans that follow them till this day. Not just old fans coming out of the woodwork but thousands of kids who idolised their local heroes. My sisters son badgered her, he was 5, until she used to have to take him to all the fan days and a lot of games. It became a real family thing for them. 

 In that year they set three home ground attendance records including 23 000 at Leichardt and 20 000+ at Campbelltown stadium. The club annual average attendance record was set in 2006, the year after their premiership, of nearly 19 000 per game.

If you want to regenerate interest in the heartlands you have to give these teams a chance of winning, and not just an isolated one off chance of making it to a GF.

 

 

Its a different market though isn't it, RL is the big show in NSW/QLD. The profile is on another level.

By contrast if Leigh, Salford, Oldham or Wigan won the Super League, they'd still be competing with whatever Man United or City story for the back pages of the local papers - and that's before you get to the nationals.

[JM2010]

1 hour ago, GUBRATS said:

Don't even think of comparing football to RL 

Football is the one true world sport , the biggest sport in the world outstripping anything else by a massive amount 

So the reason those clubs tour the world is financial , not to get kids playing the sport , playing numbers isn't the problem for football , neither is international competition , but those are the 2 current biggest issues for RL 

That wasn't my point at all!!

On a much much smaller scale I was comparing RL clubs promoting their brands outside their local areas to football clubs promoting their brand in a new market. This was an extension of what I said earlier when you said that clubs dont want to wait 20 years to see new SL players and I suggested that it could be useful to attract fans, sponsors and promote their brand. 

[GUBRATS]

3 minutes ago, JM2010 said:

That wasn't my point at all!!

On a much much smaller scale I was comparing RL clubs promoting their brands outside their local areas to football clubs promoting their brand in a new market. This was an extension of what I said earlier when you said that clubs dont want to wait 20 years to see new SL players and I suggested that it could be useful to attract fans, sponsors and promote their brand. 

Maybe just start to try to attract more fans , sponsors and promote their brand in their own back yard first , then when like the PL clubs you compare with , their stadiums are full and their shirts sell in their tens of thousands look to expand 20 miles down the rd 

[Oxford]

Pointless talking about expansion, that's become more & more clear as these debates have surfaced.

Both heartland ( not really expansion) and non-heartland expansion have proven beyond the capability of the game or its administration, it has simply been divisive and disappointing.

For the life of me I can't understand how TWP. New York or anyone else would be interested in joining a sport bereft of the ability to cope or manage their existence in the sport.

Unless, of course, you wallow in either or arguments and tragic outcomes you can say "I told you so" every other week/day/ minute. I can see no purpose in it all.

[Cumbrian Mackem]

12 minutes ago, Oxford said:

Pointless talking about expansion, that's become more & more clear as these debates have surfaced.

Both heartland ( not really expansion) and non-heartland expansion have proven beyond the capability of the game or its administration, it has simply been divisive and disappointing.

For the life of me I can't understand how TWP. New York or anyone else would be interested in joining a sport bereft of the ability to cope or manage their existence in the sport.

Unless, of course, you wallow in either or arguments and tragic outcomes you can say "I told you so" every other week/day/ minute. I can see no purpose in it all.

Taking RL to places that don’t already play it is by definition expansion be it in Blackburn or Middlesbrough.

[Oxford]

2 minutes ago, Cumbrian Mackem said:

Taking RL to places that don’t already play it is by definition expansion be it in Blackburn or Middlesbrough.

Really? Thanks for the explanation.

[Cumbrian Mackem]

5 minutes ago, Oxford said:

Really? Thanks for the explanation.

That’s why I’m here.

[Oxford]

2 minutes ago, Cumbrian Mackem said:

That’s why I’m here.

Just like the expasion you're suggesting.

[Moominman]

4 hours ago, Rupert Prince said:

Yes.  And Wigan look to Cumbria as well.

Wigan do pretty much next to zero development work in Cumbria.

Their only interest in Cumbria, as with other super league clubs, is to cherry pick the best youngsters from existing amateur clubs.

[Cumbrian Mackem]

26 minutes ago, Oxford said:

Just like the expasion you're suggesting.

Don’t follow?

[GUBRATS]

58 minutes ago, Oxford said:

Pointless talking about expansion, that's become more & more clear as these debates have surfaced.

Both heartland ( not really expansion) and non-heartland expansion have proven beyond the capability of the game or its administration, it has simply been divisive and disappointing.

For the life of me I can't understand how TWP. New York or anyone else would be interested in joining a sport bereft of the ability to cope or manage their existence in the sport.

Unless, of course, you wallow in either or arguments and tragic outcomes you can say "I told you so" every other week/day/ minute. I can see no purpose in it all.

So why are you posting on here ?

[Bedfordshire Bronco]

2 hours ago, The Rocket said:

The best example that I can give you of replenishing playing stocks and fan interest is the Wests Tigers. Neither club from that joint venture had won a premiership in 36 years, in fact for Western Suburbs it had been 53 years.

 When West Tigers won the premiership in 2005 they gained a whole new legion of fans that follow them till this day. Not just old fans coming out of the woodwork but thousands of kids who idolised their local heroes. My sisters son badgered her, he was 5, until she used to have to take him to all the fan days and a lot of games. It became a real family thing for them. 

 In that year they set three home ground attendance records including 23 000 at Leichardt and 20 000+ at Campbelltown stadium. The club annual average attendance record was set in 2006, the year after their premiership, of nearly 19 000 per game.

If you want to regenerate interest in the heartlands you have to give these teams a chance of winning, and not just an isolated one off chance of making it to a GF.

 

 

I've said this many many times

Wigan/Leeds/ Saints winning a SL title (or even a CC) will have small effect on their club/support/area

If London, Salford, Huddersfield or whoever else did it then it would be massive for their club/area.... and therefore the game itself 

We need a way of making it happen but I'm stumped if I know how 

[Rupert Prince]

3 hours ago, Moominman said:

Wigan do pretty much next to zero development work in Cumbria.

Their only interest in Cumbria, as with other super league clubs, is to cherry pick the best youngsters from existing amateur clubs.

Westmoreland Gazette Jan 2020... 'Wigan Warriors U-19 descend on West Cumbria as a bonding session. Spent the weekend with  Askam.  Training with u14s and u16s and first team.'

A year earlier Wigan and it's Community Foundation spent time at Askam.

Harvey Hill signed for Wigan on schoolboy forms.  I believe a few months ago 2 other schoolboy players from the same school signed forms.

So Wigan are not poaching.  But 3 RFL clubs do not have the investment between them to keep the quality Cumbria players in the county.  In the part time quasi amateur era before full professional game arrived it did not matter.  But it does now and Wigan and others respond.

[fighting irish]

7 hours ago, GUBRATS said:

In a word no , heartland clubs do not set up new community clubs anywhere

Setting up those clubs to a level that would start to produce youngsters of the required quality would take 20 years , so no they don't 

 

 

It's precisely because it takes so long, that they have to start now. 

[fighting irish]

4 hours ago, Bedfordshire Bronco said:

I've said this many many times

Wigan/Leeds/ Saints winning a SL title (or even a CC) will have small effect on their club/support/area

If London, Salford, Huddersfield or whoever else did it then it would be massive for their club/area.... and therefore the game itself 

We need a way of making it happen but I'm stumped if I know how 

I'll tell you how to do it, but it takes 40 years.

Newcastle will win the GF and or the CC within the next 10 to 20 years. I'm absolutely convinced of it.

They will win it with a sizeable percentage of their squad born and bred in the North East, with an enormous Geordie fanbase and all the financial backing they ever hoped for.

If they maintain the (exponential) growth rate they've demonstrated for the last 30 years, they will be unstoppable.

All any of the others need to do, Wales included, is do what Newcastle are doing. 

 

[Bedfordshire Bronco]

48 minutes ago, fighting irish said:

I'll tell you how to do it, but it takes 40 years.

Newcastle will win the GF and or the CC within the next 10 to 20 years. I'm absolutely convinced of it.

They will win it with a sizeable percentage of their squad born and bred in the North East, with an enormous Geordie fanbase and all the financial backing they ever hoped for.

If they maintain the (exponential) growth rate they've demonstrated for the last 30 years, they will be unstoppable.

All any of the others need to do, Wales included, is do what Newcastle are doing. 

 

I hope you are right Irish

Not being funny though.... it would be best if it happened down our way 

If we had 5 or so years of top tier finals and a couple of trophies we could back up to 5000 a week plus...... With some success we'd be the Melbourne Storm of SL 

[Oxford]

5 hours ago, GUBRATS said:

So why are you posting on here ?

Because I'm allowed to, & it's a free country. (Well, it does a good impression anyway!)

 

[Bedfordshire Bronco]

11 minutes ago, Oxford said:

& it's a free country

 

For now Oxford..... For now

[Rugby&soccerfan]

15 hours ago, Cumbrian Mackem said:

Not picking on Salford and I’m just using them as an example of how and why they(Salford) a “traditional” club of 100+ years from the “heartlands” can’t replicate what a relatively new club like the Newcastle thunder from outside the “heartland” are doing at the grassroots level by introducing RL to new audiences and potentially 100’s if not 1000’s of kids all throughout the north east.

Why can’t/won’t Salford target areas like Stockport, Tameside, Manchester and Trafford etc?

maybe Salford do indeed target these areas and if so I apologize but the main premise of my argument still stands for other clubs like St. Helens, Warrington and wigan etc.

In the early 2000's during its growth most of these cities had teams in the Summer Conference in its boom.

[Pie tries]

I’m helping with a club in Trafford. The reason the club is still here is down to a few individuals; not from any of the small and intermittent help we receive.

Newcastle are doing it right and will be rewarded, guess it comes down to resources

[Cumbrian Mackem]

32 minutes ago, Pie tries said:

I’m helping with a club in Trafford. The reason the club is still here is down to a few individuals; not from any of the small and intermittent help we receive.

Newcastle are doing it right and will be rewarded, guess it comes down to resources

Good for you mate and keep up the good work.

What in your opinion could be done to help the club your helping with in Trafford and other clubs for that matter in the greater Manchester area?

[fighting irish]

35 minutes ago, Pie tries said:

I’m helping with a club in Trafford. The reason the club is still here is down to a few individuals; not from any of the small and intermittent help we receive.

Newcastle are doing it right and will be rewarded, guess it comes down to resources

Just keep on, keeping on. Its always hardest, in the early days. 

[Oxford]

https://www.seriousaboutrl.com/ranking-every-super-league-expansion-club-from-worst-to-best-37714/