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England RL x Oxen - 5 year deal


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1 hour ago, Johnoco said:

Taking on board RL Geeks Aldi comments.....

That’s an interesting comparison. In reality, Aldi Rola Cola is pretty good, I’m happy to use it as a mixer for instance - and I’m a quite fussy about crappy cola. But nevertheless the perception is still that it’s a cheapo alternative to the ‘real thing’ rightly or wrongly.

Likewise, Lidl’s ‘WheatBix’ or whatever is clearly their version of Weetabix, unashamedly so. 

RLs problem is that lots of people, subconsciously or otherwise, associate RL with the Aldi/Lidl versions of rugby. How it changes that is the big question. 

Johnoco, I totally disagree with your last paragraph.

In my experience Rara people (when they look) are quietly seething with envy over our game.

The best of them, grudgingly acknowledge its, faster, tougher and a more highly skilled game than their own, although they'll only admit those things in seperate sentences.

To admit it all, in one sentence would completely overwhelm their capacity for self deception and they'd be changed forever.

Anyone over the age of 40, also knows that the game was actively discriminated against in all walks of life for a hundred years (and still is, although more subtly, nowadays).

So they are very aware of the reasons why its not so popular.

It's not because it's perceived as a cheap alternative! 

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35 minutes ago, fighting irish said:

Johnoco, I totally disagree with your last paragraph.

In my experience Rara people (when they look) are quietly seething with envy over our game.

The best of them, grudgingly acknowledge its, faster, tougher and a more highly skilled game than their own, although they'll only admit those things in seperate sentences.

To admit it all, in one sentence would completely overwhelm their capacity for self deception and they'd be changed forever.

Anyone over the age of 40, also knows that the game was actively discriminated against in all walks of life for a hundred years (and still is, although more subtly, nowadays).

So they are very aware of the reasons why its not so popular.

It's not because it's perceived as a cheap alternative! 

The problem is the game actively suffers amongst non Rara types and/or under 40s. 

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1 hour ago, Tommygilf said:

I don't disagree

I openly admit i am quite critical of all things apparel/design related. It all comes from frustration though.

Newham Dockers - Champions 2013. Rugby League For East London. 100% Cockney Rugby League!

Twitter: @NewhamDockersRL - Get following!

www.newhamdockers.co.uk

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18 minutes ago, Johnoco said:

 

Why didn’t RL take advantage of this? No RU clubs were as famous.

do you have to ask??? the same as it is now, incompetency from those in charge and also a general feeling that good things come to those that wait rather than good things come to those that go out and get them.. many business fall at that sort of point.. excellent things are going well we can sit back.. nope they are going well now push on

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43 minutes ago, Tommygilf said:

The problem is the game actively suffers amongst non Rara types and/or under 40s. 

I can readily accept, we need to do more to bring new fans into the game.

I just don't understand what you mean by ''the game actively suffers''?

If young, non Rara types are not seeing it, we need to show it to them. 

20 minutes ago, Johnoco said:

Nope, RU fans think their game is better than RL. That might be hard to compute but it’s the truth. They might admire aspects of RL but that doesn’t mean they are insanely jealous of RL. 
 

Many people see no difference between RU and RL and probably think RL is some sort of northern version of rugby that’s not as popular. Not maliciously, just how they perceive it to be. 
 

And actually, many people think RL had the advantage in the past with people like when on Grandstand and Eddie Waring being genuinely famous. Or clubs like Hull KR being in everyday vernacular. (Many comedy sketches for instance)

Why didn’t RL take advantage of this? No RU clubs were as famous.

I agree some people think that Rara is better. That is their prerogative. Some people like olives and anchovies. So what?

Lots of them do envy us. Why do you think they found it necessary to ban, vilify and ostracise us for a hundred years?

Nothing more than fear of being swept away by a superior product.

Do you really believe that anyone who has actually watched both games, see no difference between the two?

When you say they ''probably think that RL .......'' you are revealing nothing more, than your own personal prejudices.

I grant you they might think that, if they've never seen our game and/or the NRL in particular.

The visibility of the game (on Grandstand) in the past, made it glaringly obvious to anyone tuning in on a Saturday afternoon, that RL is/was superior to Rara but I don't think Eddie Waring contributed to that image, one iota.

I believe he was partly responsible for anchoring the game in the North of England and setting it up as a laughing stock in the many comedy sketches you refer to.

The reason RL hasn't ''taken advantage'' of its superiority is a combination of smug self-satisfaction, an inward looking conservative rather than expansionist mentality and sheer incompetence. 

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18 minutes ago, fighting irish said:

can readily accept, we need to do more to bring new fans into the game.

I just don't understand what you mean by ''the game actively suffers''?

If young, non Rara types are not seeing it, we need to show it to them. 

Lower sponsorship deals, less media attention, seen as less fashionable, lower public interest, lower attention from new media sources etc.

This is a vicious cycle too, or to put it in fancy talk, a "negative feedback loop". That's to say, these problems getting worse makes those same problems keep getting worse. For example, if you're not as popular as you were, brands will pay less to sponsor you or choose not to be associated with you at all, which means other brands will be questioning how much money they put in which means less money which means less ability to promote which means less popularity etc etc.

There's also the unquantifiable "suffering" associated with missed opportunities.

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3 minutes ago, Tommygilf said:

Lower sponsorship deals, less media attention, seen as less fashionable, lower public interest, lower attention from new media sources etc.

This is a vicious cycle too, or to put it in fancy talk, a "negative feedback loop". That's to say, these problems getting worse makes those same problems keep getting worse. For example, if you're not as popular as you were, brands will pay less to sponsor you or choose not to be associated with you at all, which means other brands will be questioning how much money they put in which means less money which means less ability to promote which means less popularity etc etc.

There's also the unquantifiable "suffering" associated with missed opportunities.

In your first sentence, I presume you use the word suffering in the context of suffering lower this and lower that when compared to Rara, or Soccer, or something else. In my opinion that is an orientation, or a point of view, which is unhelpful.

I'm not suffering, are you? What does it feel like?

The way you speak sounds like self immolation or flagellation. I'm not into that. 

It doesn't matter a jot, if something is more popular than we are. We are where we are.

Regarding your second paragraph, if we are in a negative feedback loop, then we need to change it to a positive feedback loop, how? by demonstrating growth, year on year to potential fans, backers, and media alike. 

What we need to focus on, is how we get from where we are to where we want to be and stop whining about the fact the something else is more popular (at the moment). It's irrelevant.

Your continual references to ''suffering'' engender inertia, diffidence and depression.

I just wish the whining would stop and the doing begin. 

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1 minute ago, Johnoco said:

Well we’ll have to disagree then. 
 

Except that starting from an argument perspective of ‘X is superior to Y, why are you bothering with that Y carp’ rarely converts people and generally has the opposite effect. 

l

Happy to agree to disagree. I just don't understand your final comment above? Don't feel obliged to explain it, if you can't be bothered. I know achieving clarity often requires a good deal of effort. 

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1 minute ago, Johnoco said:

Sure, I mean that telling people that the things they enjoy are garbage and they are misled for liking them rarely gets them onside. 

In my experience it’s better to show someone what it is you share and let them decide for themselves. I’ve had it in music for years with people telling me to like bands A or B and boring me to tears about them. As a result I tended to not bother checking them out. 

I agree with every single word you say, in this post.

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32 minutes ago, fighting irish said:

In your first sentence, I presume you use the word suffering in the context of suffering lower this and lower that when compared to Rara, or Soccer, or something else. In my opinion that is an orientation, or a point of view, which is unhelpful.

I'm not suffering, are you? What does it feel like?

The way you speak sounds like self immolation or flagellation. I'm not into that. 

It doesn't matter a jot, if something is more popular than we are. We are where we are.

Regarding your second paragraph, if we are in a negative feedback loop, then we need to change it to a positive feedback loop, how? by demonstrating growth, year on year to potential fans, backers, and media alike. 

What we need to focus on, is how we get from where we are to where we want to be and stop whining about the fact the something else is more popular (at the moment). It's irrelevant.

Your continual references to ''suffering'' engender inertia, diffidence and depression.

I just wish the whining would stop and the doing begin. 

Popularity does matter because it isn't constant. A lack of popularity with u40s (a group I picked out directly from your comment about over 40s) is deeply problematic for the future of the game at all levels and relying on the things that worked to get the over 40s interested in the game is a flawed premise.

I've not mentioned comparative popularity.

Breaking negative feedback loops is a difficult process. It requires creativity and usually a lot of money. Or it requires the system to have functions to address failings - the NFL's draft system is a prime example. 

Suffering is quite the opposite. In business and life, suffering often is a sign that one needs to change what one is doing. 

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1 hour ago, Tommygilf said:

Popularity does matter because it isn't constant. A lack of popularity with u40s (a group I picked out directly from your comment about over 40s) is deeply problematic for the future of the game at all levels and relying on the things that worked to get the over 40s interested in the game is a flawed premise.

I've not mentioned comparative popularity.

Breaking negative feedback loops is a difficult process. It requires creativity and usually a lot of money. Or it requires the system to have functions to address failings - the NFL's draft system is a prime example. 

Suffering is quite the opposite. In business and life, suffering often is a sign that one needs to change what one is doing. 

I agree with everything here Tom, either we'll succeed in changing it or we won't but we do need to change. 

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  • 2 weeks later...
11 hours ago, Whippet13 said:

 

10 hours ago, Hela Wigmen said:

Looks like the sort of generic rubbish they’d offer Hull KR. 

Well what a surprise.

One man's meat is another man's poison!

I suppose what really matters, is how many they can sell, if its loads Whippet can claim a victory, if its few Wigman takes the bragging rights.

I just wish, we could talk the game, its personalities and its presentation up, instead of down.

The eyes and ears of the world may be upon us.

After watching a recent podcast with Eric Perez, it was clear how dour the British side of the conversation was, compared to his side.

The chap from Newcastle was particularly belligerent and depressing, doggedly insisting on going back over old ground. Heaping negativity on Perez instead of talking about what the podcast was supposed to be about.

Eventually Perez cut out (I don't blame him) it was unbearable to listen to.

Perez's advice ''Cheer up fella's its supposed to fun and exciting''.

Roughly translated ''Your podcast is a killer dressed up as a fanbase''. 

 

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