Helping or Hindering? – French Teams in the ‘English’ Pyramid

[Dave T]

2 minutes ago, Tommygilf said:

I generally agree with that, however I think you touch on a reductive point with the "UK". The RFL aren't responsible for the UK, they're responsible for England, even then they restrict themselves to only parts of England and then only certain preferred clubs/areas and suddenly you can see why having the attitude of "UKRL first" very quickly descends into a farce.

The RFL should be the locus and bold leader for the sport in the Northern Hemisphere by virtue of the fact it is the centre of RL in the region.

I almost used England, and I have real issues with what the RFL are actually governing body of as their remit says UK, but in reality it is England.

I'm not sure the RFL should be the leader of the sport in the NH at all. We don't have the funding, structure or expertise for that - ERL and IRL should be taking the lead on these things. We need to simplify things and be really clear who is responsible fo developing what. The RFL shouldn't be anywhere near developing RL in Canada, beyond funding (through the IRL and ERL) and maybe logistical support, playing games etc. 

[Tommygilf]

4 minutes ago, Harry Stottle said:

Off course it changes, the goal posts have been moved with the mere suggestion of exempting teams from relegation in a league ladder, this season there are to be 25 fixtures for each team (covid allowing) that is 50 points up for grabs for all 12 teams to strive for so they don't finish in a relegation spot, if as you suggest 2 teams are not to be included in the fight to stave of relegation then the win percentage increases to avoid the drop.

Basically you are suggesting that two French teams play a full season of friendlies, if winning points in league fixtures means nothing at bottom end of the table it should mean nothing at the top end. 

The French clubs would be playing to win.

 I think Super League should have x number of English spots, x number of Welsh spots, x number of French spots, with their national federations deciding how to fill them. England would be more than welcome to appease its championship clubs with P/R.

It does seem silly a French team would be relegated to the English Championship, why not Elite? If they're going to play in a 2nd rate, low visibility, varying quality competition that few people care about that isn't Super League, then why would anyone suggest they do that in a different country? Who benefits from that waste of resource?

[Tommygilf]

2 minutes ago, Dave T said:

I almost used England, and I have real issues with what the RFL are actually governing body of as their remit says UK, but in reality it is England.

I'm not sure the RFL should be the leader of the sport in the NH at all. We don't have the funding, structure or expertise for that - ERL and IRL should be taking the lead on these things. We need to simplify things and be really clear who is responsible fo developing what. The RFL shouldn't be anywhere near developing RL in Canada, beyond funding (through the IRL and ERL) and maybe logistical support, playing games etc. 

Then the RFL need to do what the ARL did and effectively cede control of the professional game to the professional League if they can't cope.

Equally, they don't really have a choice as there is no alternative. They are in this position de facto.

[Dave T]

3 minutes ago, Tommygilf said:

Then the RFL need to do what the ARL did and effectively cede control of the professional game to the professional League if they can't cope.

Equally, they don't really have a choice as there is no alternative. They are in this position de facto.

The RFL shoul continue to focus on being the governing body for the UK/England. 

Just being the main RL playing nation doesn't mean they are then responsible for the game across the hemisphere, that isn't really how it works.

And I don't just say this to be inward looking, I say it because it isn't good governance - as we have seen recently, decisions will be made that suit UK RL rather than what is right for Canada, or France, or Serbia etc. 

Supporting the game through the international governing bodies (through both funding and respecting their powers) is by far the best model.

Even though we have stumbled into some growth in the Southern Hemisphere, I'd also argue that it has been hampered by being 'owned' by the Aussie league. 

Not unlike with SL itself, lack of good governance is what is holding the game back imho.

[Saint Toppy]

If we maintain the P&R system then having different rules for different clubs depending on where they are is just ludicrous. Whichever tier your in everyone should play under the same rules, no ringfencing or any other sort of protectionism. Every club should succeed or fail under the same rules

[Harry Stottle]

48 minutes ago, Tommygilf said:

It does seem silly a French team would be relegated to the English Championship, why not Elite? If they're going to play in a 2nd rate, low visibility, varying quality competition that few people care about that isn't Super League.

Is that a suggestion that the Championship is on par with Elite 1.

[Tommygilf]

18 minutes ago, Harry Stottle said:

Is that a suggestion that the Championship is on par with Elite 1.

Structurally they should be, though the weaker nature of Elite 1 is reflected in the lower number of allocated spots for French teams vs English teams in the Super League. Just like how more English teams can qualify for the Champions League than Scottish ones.

The other alternative is to go whole hog and merge the 2 competitions entirely, with maybe the 3rd divisions being regionalised by nation. That obviously opens the door on either the first or second division becoming dominated by one of the two nations however and of course would add a higher cost base to the sport.

[barnyia]

In super League helping. Lower divisions hindering. 

[ATLANTISMAN]

2 hours ago, zylya said:

There's a difference between saying "I don't want French/NZ teams in Super League/NRL" which is what you're suggesting has been said and saying "I would love to see professional leagues in France and New Zealand AS WELL AS Super League/NRL" which is what I'm saying. I think it's less likely that NZ could form a fully pro league like France could, but were it possible then I absolutely would love to see that.

I understand that not everyone feels the same way, but I would love to see a world of RL where the top countries have their own professional leagues. Obviously it's not a realistic prospect right now, but to me, building Elite 1 to the level where it could support Catalans and Toulouse would be far more beneficial for the game in France than having a 10 French-qualified player minimum in Super League. I also don't like the idea of some teams exempt from promotion/relegation and others not.

No one is saying "stick them back in Elite 1" just that the LONG TERM goal should be a professional structure in France.

ALL sounds well and good but having been involved in French RL on and off for over 30 years IMPOSSIBLE the heart beat of the game is mainly small towns and villages (Nothing wrong with that this for me is the charm) The very fact that these small places produce so many excellent players is nothing short of a miracle.

Way forward is 2 teams in Super League and thats it + building up the Elite again in the places where the game is present or historically was strong.

 

Paul

[Tommygilf]

24 minutes ago, barnyia said:

In super League helping. Lower divisions hindering. 

Precisely 

[DEANO]

On 16/03/2021 at 09:32, Eddie said:

No because there isn’t a professional league for them to go back to, and never will be. 
 

I’d love to see 14 teams in SL, or even 16. Not sure about the merits of a Scottish or Irish side are currently though, there is almost zero interest in the game in either country. 

Same in Wales and london

[Eddie]

59 minutes ago, DEANO said:

Same in Wales and london

At least there are two pro/semi-pro teams in each of Wales and London though, and numerous Community clubs, and a number of professional players from those places. Scotland has four amateur teams, one of whom have never played a game, and Ireland not many more.