New North American Competition?

[fighting irish]

4 minutes ago, Big Picture said:

It would have to be more than just "some money" though and RL pays poorly compared to the sports they know.  If we divide the SL salary cap by 25, that yields just a smidge more than the average salary in the minor league CFL and we know that some SL teams can't afford to pay the full cap amount.

The guys who played in college on an athletic scholarship and trained in an environment with state of the art equipment etc. provided by those big athletic budgets will likely have comparable expectations of what it means to be a pro.  The reported average salary of minor league players in the US is 51,155 US$ according to this report so pay levels will certainly be a factor in determining the calibre of athletes who'll be interested in coming over to RL.

I agree with everything you say here.

There are a few ''unknowns'' here I'd like to bring to light.

First by your own evidence there are huge numbers of athletes turned out by the college system each year.

Second, not all of them will be able to make money in the minor leagues.

Third, the budget of $300,000 dollars is a central distribution to kick this thing off, who knows what other monies might be available or generated internally by the clubs themselves and their backers.

Fourthly, as (if) the competition grows and budgets expand, the calibre of of athletes making themselves available will surely improve.

I personally, am very excited about this development and I can't wait for this thing to get started and will watch it with an avid interest.

I'm certainly not going to engage in a heap of negative criticism just to show how ''clever'' I am, when I can see a way through all the negativity and instead, wish them every success. 

[fighting irish]

3 minutes ago, GUBRATS said:

Really not bothered about continuing along this route , it isn't provable either way , only what happens will be the ' pudding ' , I look forward to seeing them 

This will now be considered as myself being a flat cap anti expansionist 

So I really am done with it now 

Enjoy 

Oh God, can't we simply agree to disagree?

The way I see it Gubrats, is that no-one is calling you a flat-capper and in fact, you are your own worst critic. 

[Man of Kent]

Sorry if posted before but this story suggests it’ll be mostly RU players.

Nothing wrong with that. 

[Keith989]

17 minutes ago, Man of Kent said:

Sorry if posted before but this story suggests it’ll be mostly RU players.

Nothing wrong with that. 

"What does it mean for New York and Ottawa joining the RFL?

That now won't be happening. Rugby League Live has been told the two franchises are '100% done with the RFL', and are solely focussed on playing a part in the growth and development of the new competition in North America."

 

Didn't Ottawa just come out a few days ago and say they were planning on playing in both comps? 

[Man of Kent]

21 minutes ago, Keith989 said:

"What does it mean for New York and Ottawa joining the RFL?

That now won't be happening. Rugby League Live has been told the two franchises are '100% done with the RFL', and are solely focussed on playing a part in the growth and development of the new competition in North America."

 

Didn't Ottawa just come out a few days ago and say they were planning on playing in both comps? 

I’d take anything Eric Perez says with a grain of salt. 

[Big Picture]

40 minutes ago, Man of Kent said:

Sorry if posted before but this story suggests it’ll be mostly RU players.

Nothing wrong with that. 

It's certainly geared to that with a short season shoehorned into the RU off-season.

[RobertAM]

6 minutes ago, Man of Kent said:

I’d take anything Eric Perez says with a grain of salt. 

If the RFL/SL had hired someone with the vision and determination of an Eric Perez (as opposed to say a certain Robert Elstone) I'd venture to say the game would be in far better shape than it is at the moment.

I'll certainly miss the storied old teams of my youth and their fantastic fans dropping in here every few weeks but I'm looking forward to the possibilities that NARL may bring in the coming months and years.

[Pulga]

7 hours ago, fighting irish said:

Tell me more about what you mean by that Pulga?

 

[Oldbear]

Without repeating a whole amount of comments that have already been posted, my view, as a Canadian resident with 2 sons already in the Canadian University Sports system I can add the following 

1. Big Picture makes some very valid points , most Canadian kids will be familiar with RU and Gridiron, so the basics could be addressed with the right coaching. This in fact could be the biggest problem for this league if it wants to develop beyond a 1 or 2 season wonder in that the clubs will need coaches who can not only develop players, but also can produce a style of play capable of attracting an audience beyond family and friends. Over here, even more so, this is the entertainment business. Can enough of these coaches be found, can the new comp afford them?

2. Again BP is accurate with his description of NCAA athletes, also the bigger and stronger Canadian U Sports schools have excellent training facilities so this new comp will at the very least have to look more professional in terms of the off field training facilities and yes I know a huge number of athletes graduate each year with no way of making the major leagues, but you still need to attract them to you. Money will be one factor, but the set up (which will also cost) will be important.

3. For the league to be able to look good enough for people to be persuaded to pay for a streaming service there is going to be a lot of imports on rosters, getting work permits will be a real challenge.

[unapologetic pedant]

3 hours ago, OriginalMrC said:

I don't disagree but my point is to deliver a product that's good to watch there will need to be experienced players to ensure the skill levels are there. Heck I'll happily watch any level of Rugby but for a product to be polular it will need to deliver on the pitch 

The "simple game" canard can deceive us into over-emphasising individual abilities. Experienced or new players could have or reach impressive levels of skill and athleticism, yet still be inept collectively.

It`s indisputable that there`s a threshold of individual and team standards below which the games will struggle to attract interest. Where that threshold is set though, is a subjective preference.

I have no idea what style or aspects of RL are most likely to appeal to North American audiences. On what I saw I could never work out whether the Wolfpack pulled good crowds because of or despite the way they and their opponents played.

Personally, rather than watch Englishmen and Aussies producing "quality" as defined by things like completion rates, I`d be more intrigued to see local North Americans playing with a bit more freedom and growing into the game.

[Big Picture]

18 minutes ago, unapologetic pedant said:

The "simple game" canard can deceive us into over-emphasising individual abilities. Experienced or new players could have or reach impressive levels of skill and athleticism, yet still be inept collectively.

It`s indisputable that there`s a threshold of individual and team standards below which the games will struggle to attract interest. Where that threshold is set though, is a subjective preference.

I have no idea what style or aspects of RL are most likely to appeal to North American audiences. On what I saw I could never work out whether the Wolfpack pulled good crowds because of or despite the way they and their opponents played.

Personally, rather than watch Englishmen and Aussies producing "quality" as defined by things like completion rates, I`d be more intrigued to see local North Americans playing with a bit more freedom and growing into the game.

Having watched hundreds of matches over the years and now having a lot of matches from the era before the 10 metre rule was introduced in my collection I may be able to help you here.

Like the "old timers" here such as @GUBRATS, @Harry Stottleand others I find the game today dull and tedious to watch, it's become too easy for teams to advance the ball and the contrast compared to the wonderfully varied game of the late 1980s and early 1990s is startling.  It also moves at such a fast pace now that it's probably difficult for newbies to follow, though perhaps less so for those accustomed to the fast pace of ice hockey.  One solution to that is a beer garden like the Wolfpack had at Lamport: if the game moves too fast for the newbies to get their heads around it or teams advance the ball too easily in a dull, predictable way for those among them who saw plenty of gridiron on TV (where there's pretty much no such thing as easy yards so offenses have to vary their tactics and play as a consequence) growing up, they could always spend their time and money having a good time down in the beer garden and then those things wouldn't matter as much and the beer sales would pad the club's revenue.

[frank]

It all depends on finance of course, but in regard to recruiting, for  those that are starting  the NARLA a  trip to Papua New Guinea would be worth while.

There are hundreds of League players  there who would jump at the chance to play in the USA .

A sprinkling of these player  in these teams would certainly lift the standard.

No need to raid the RFL or the NRL where the cost would be too prohibitive.

[Big Picture]

6 minutes ago, frank said:

It all depends on finance of course, but in regard to recruiting, for  those that are starting  the NARLA a  trip to Papua New Guinea would be worth while.

There are hundreds of League players  there who would jump at the chance to play in the USA .

A sprinkling of these player  in these teams would certainly lift the standard.

No need to raid the RFL or the NRL where the cost would be too prohibitive.

Unless they're Internationals or other top level pros they won't qualify for visas though.  MLR franchises learned that from their experience trying to get visas for RU players they wanted to bring over from Europe.

[Big Picture]

Everything Rugby League has some interesting information in this story about Ottawa.  Apparently Ricky Wilby's partner in all this is a Liverpool soccer player agent named Gary Sloane.

[Oldbear]

2 hours ago, unapologetic pedant said:

I have no idea what style or aspects of RL are most likely to appeal to North American audiences. On what I saw I could never work out whether the Wolfpack pulled good crowds because of or despite the way they and their opponents played.

Personally, rather than watch Englishmen and Aussies producing "quality" as defined by things like completion rates, I`d be more intrigued to see local North Americans playing with a bit more freedom and growing into the game.

One thing that of course was never tested due to COVID was how Toronto’s crowds would have held up if they had a long losing streak. A winning team helps to bring in the crowds and Toronto was able to provide that until they reached SL, of course there was never any home SL games so we won’t really know if the crowds would have held up or not (and yes I know the Leafs sell out despite having never won a Stanley Cup since Adam was a kid but that’s hockey, which is Canada’s national religion).

I think the key things for the new comp will be to provide exciting, entertaining games, with hopefully not many blow outs.

[Oldbear]

2 hours ago, Big Picture said:

One solution to that is a beer garden like the Wolfpack had at Lamport: if the game moves too fast for the newbies to get their heads around it or teams advance the ball too easily in a dull, predictable way for those among them who saw plenty of gridiron on TV (where there's pretty much no such thing as easy yards so offenses have to vary their tactics and play as a consequence) growing up, they could always spend their time and money having a good time down in the beer garden and then those things wouldn't matter as much and the beer sales would pad the club's revenue.

Great point, also it helps keep people around if the game does turn into a blow out. In fact the beer garden is essential to sell the game as an event, rather than just going to a game.

[fieldofclothofgold]

I really do hope this venture does not fail completely.  In the past we've seen new clubs fail and the sport loses those new fans .I remember seeing Kent Invicta fans at Wembley CC final in their own supporters coach , I was pleased to see TWP fans at Headingley and it looks like they're still with us . I hope it succeeds 

[frank]

15 minutes ago, fieldofclothofgold said:

I really do hope this venture does not fail completely.  In the past we've seen new clubs fail and the sport loses those new fans .I remember seeing Kent Invicta fans at Wembley CC final in their own supporters coach , I was pleased to see TWP fans at Headingley and it looks like they're still with us . I hope it succeeds 

Finance is the main thing. If the comp can break even or makes  a profit there should be no problems.

Some teams may drop out in the early stages but others may apply to enter.

[kiwis 13 6]

Having there own semi professional competition is the way forward for Rugby League in North America. But having said that I do have some questions, apart from 2 West Coast sides being set up an playing an exhibition game last year there has been no rugby league on the West Coast, so how will this competition find the 150 or so players needed for the 6 new West Coast clubs? With Toronto & Ottawa in this competition what will happen to  the proposed CCRL semi pro competition? What realistic chance do the competition organizers have in the short term of making money from there investment by selling TV right and attracting sponsorship?

[Dave T]

On 03/04/2021 at 10:32, Damien said:

Yes I'm not really getting this either. If in the short term if we get a sustainable setup with League 1 standard of play that would be a huge success in my opinion.

This impatience is common in RL. This development is all good, I can't believe anyone would pick on grounds at this point. 

Will be really interesting to see how it progresses. 

[Keith989]

25 minutes ago, Dave T said:

This impatience is common in RL. This development is all good, I can't believe anyone would pick on grounds at this point. 

Will be really interesting to see how it progresses. 

I wonder why they are putting all the games on where there are still serious restrictions instead of somewhere like Texas or Washington, where you could have crowds? Unless Vegas are planning to lift some by June?

[RobertAM]

55 minutes ago, Dave T said:

This impatience is common in RL. This development is all good, I can't believe anyone would pick on grounds at this point. 

Will be really interesting to see how it progresses. 

Grounds shouldn't deter fans I'd think..I recall when Lamport was being re-sodded we played Swinton at Fletchers fields in the middle of nowhere and nearly 3000 showed up. It's marketing driven...and no one markets like the Americans.

 

[Eddie]

15 hours ago, Oldbear said:

Great point, also it helps keep people around if the game does turn into a blow out. In fact the beer garden is essential to sell the game as an event, rather than just going to a game.

You mean playing in a squalid old ground and selling pints of Tetley in plastic cups to wash down cheap pies with won’t be a hit in America? 

[Pulga]

10 hours ago, kiwis 13 6 said:

Having there own semi professional competition is the way forward for Rugby League in North America. But having said that I do have some questions, apart from 2 West Coast sides being set up an playing an exhibition game last year there has been no rugby league on the West Coast, so how will this competition find the 150 or so players needed for the 6 new West Coast clubs? With Toronto & Ottawa in this competition what will happen to  the proposed CCRL semi pro competition? What realistic chance do the competition organizers have in the short term of making money from there investment by selling TV right and attracting sponsorship?

The West Coast has seen a fair bit of action lately. There's now 6 teams in California. 5 of them had an event a couple of weeks ago where they were playing 20 minute games and rotating through the teams.

 

[Pulga]

https://youtu.be/UPGIO1o3cvI

 

The Full 80 Minutes with Cleveland and NYC RLFC.

Ben Jones-Bishop specifically named as interested in playing in the USA as well as two undisclosed Super League players nearing the end of their careers.