Ryan Sutton

[Futtocks]

2 hours ago, Click said:

From what I've seen of Hill in recent years he seems to be no where near the standard needed for international RL and hasn't been for a few years now. Experience or not 

The last couple of seasons, Hill looked below his best and was having outbreaks of bad temper and lack of focus. Mind you, he was pretty good this weekend. Plenty of months to go 'til the final decision is made.

As for Sutton (apologies for returning to topic), he was a young forward who would almost certainly have developed and improved if he'd stayed in SL. As it is, he's gone to Canberra, developed in their system instead, and is used to taking on and beating the kind of pack players England will face in the RWC every week.

At the time he left for Australia, I wouldn't have considered Sutton as a first-choice international selection. I wouldn't have considered Whitehead at the same point of his career either, and he's done more than all right.

[Spidey]

2 minutes ago, Futtocks said:

The last couple of seasons, Hill looked below his best and was having outbreaks of bad temper and lack of focus. Mind you, he was pretty good this weekend. Plenty of months to go 'til the final decision is made.

As for Sutton (apologies for returning to topic), he was a young forward who would almost certainly have developed and improved if he'd stayed in SL. As it is, he's gone to Canberra, developed in their system instead, and is used to taking on and beating the kind of pack players England will face in the RWC every week.

At the time he left for Australia, I wouldn't have considered Sutton as a first-choice international selection. I wouldn't have considered Whitehead at the same point of his career either, and he's done more than all right.

For me he’s following a similar development journey as Mike Cooper did. Before he left for Aus he was nothing special at Warrington

[DavidM]

Of course the big imponderable , and key to everything , is what Mr Wane is thinking . To me if you’re in the NRL and delivering weekly against that level of opposition and players we’ll be facing in the WC then you’re a certainty but Wane , I maybe wrong , may see it different and have more an emphasis on SL 

[CGD]

5 hours ago, Mr Frisky said:

A few people are saying Chris Hill shouldn't be in the WC squad but with the likes of Graham and Sam Burgess now gone (as well as Lockers) I think our forward pack needs him for his experience and leadership, been there and done it- you don't want our young forwards (like Sutton etc) to get bullied out of games- especially against the Island nations when they usually rely on their packs. The likes of George Burgess, while top class never really steps up as a leader and that's a key aspect to winning at the top level.

There's no way Sutton is gonna get bullied by anyone. I'm sure he's learning a lot from the likes of Papalii...but while he's not as dominant as Papa, he's got a bigger motor than him. Sutton is killing it for the Raiders.

[GUBRATS]

Put him in at fullback 

[GeordieSaint]

7 hours ago, Mr Frisky said:

A few people are saying Chris Hill shouldn't be in the WC squad but with the likes of Graham and Sam Burgess now gone (as well as Lockers) I think our forward pack needs him for his experience and leadership, been there and done it- you don't want our young forwards (like Sutton etc) to get bullied out of games- especially against the Island nations when they usually rely on their packs.

Walmsley, Roby, Clark, Whitehead, Bateman, T Burgess et al are all highly experienced forwards at international level. We’ve got enough experience there to not miss Hill’s experience. Past his best... 

[Scubby]

45 minutes ago, GeordieSaint said:

Walmsley, Roby, Clark, Whitehead, Bateman, T Burgess et al are all highly experienced forwards at international level. We’ve got enough experience there to not miss Hill’s experience. Past his best... 

Over the Hill to put it mildly

[Man of Kent]

8 hours ago, Mr Frisky said:

A few people are saying Chris Hill shouldn't be in the WC squad but with the likes of Graham and Sam Burgess now gone (as well as Lockers) I think our forward pack needs him for his experience and leadership, been there and done it- you don't want our young forwards (like Sutton etc) to get bullied out of games- especially against the Island nations when they usually rely on their packs. The likes of George Burgess, while top class never really steps up as a leader and that's a key aspect to winning at the top level.

Hill’s been dropped. Wane said so on TalkSport.

[Mr Frisky]

9 minutes ago, Man of Kent said:

Hill’s been dropped. Wane said so on TalkSport.

Yep, he also said the doors open for anyone.

[graveyard johnny]

you have to remember the raiders have one of the best forward packs in the nrl- i hope sutton comes through good for england but at the moment i can only see him as the modern day mike cooper

[barnyia]

Any idea if it will be NRL rules at the world cup? Could make a difference to player choices especially in the forwards

[Alan Robertson]

2 minutes ago, barnyia said:

Any idea if it will be NRL rules at the world cup? Could make a difference to player choices especially in the forwards

They'll use the International Laws, I think.

[graveyard johnny]

On 03/04/2021 at 11:35, thebrewxi said:

Andrew Voss: "If England were picking a side tonight Sutton has to be in the 17

Andrew Voss tries to make a soap opera out of a player having an untied bootlace - unbearable drama queen 

[barnyia]

17 minutes ago, Alan Robertson said:

They'll use the International Laws, I think.

Any idea what those are? I watch NRL, super League and french elite 1 and I'm lost. I can't remember which rules are which when I'm coaching now

[Alan Robertson]

2 hours ago, barnyia said:

Any idea what those are? I watch NRL, super League and french elite 1 and I'm lost. I can't remember which rules are which when I'm coaching now

Good question.

During the 'free play' days of Super League, I'm pretty sure that such a play was never part of the international laws. During the 2-ref era in the NRL, there was only ever one ref during internationals. 

The NRL and Super League used to have different laws on mid-air tackles too but that changed last season with the NRL adopting the Super League law. The international law, in this area, 'matched' the Super League prior to the standardisation.

The use of scrums, of course, is an inconsistency between the two main domestic competitions but I understand that they currently remain within the international laws.

[Alan Robertson]

In before the critics/trolls, I am not suggesting that I have provided an exhaustive list of the differences.

[bobbruce]

21 hours ago, CGD said:

Those who don't think Sutton is heavily in the discussion for the England top 17 aren't watching him play. Surely 

Of course he’s in the discussion but  playing in the NRL although clearly a higher standard doesn’t make him an automatic choice. Personally I think if he wasn’t getting the NRL boost I’d have him at the same level as Kyle Amor. Nothing flash but a consistent 7/8 out of 10 every week. 

[Scubby]

49 minutes ago, bobbruce said:

Of course he’s in the discussion but  playing in the NRL although clearly a higher standard doesn’t make him an automatic choice. Personally I think if he wasn’t getting the NRL boost I’d have him at the same level as Kyle Amor. Nothing flash but a consistent 7/8 out of 10 every week. 

I know what you are saying but you have to build in the development of a young prop from age of 23-25. He still has a lot of improvement in him. I agree that his consistency is his asset. This only works if you have a few more dynamic players around you, however.

[bobbruce]

8 minutes ago, Scubby said:

I know what you are saying but you have to build in the development of a young prop from age of 23-25. He still has a lot of improvement in him. I agree that his consistency is his asset. This only works if you have a few more dynamic players around you, however.

I’m not knocking him what he’s achieved over there is brilliant. Just as you say there’s a few of certainties and he’s then in the mix with about 8 other players to fill the squad out. Having said that he is a player Wane knows well so I do think he will end up in the squad. 

[Harry Stottle]

On 03/04/2021 at 15:47, Damien said:

I think Walmsley is someone that could give the Aussies real bother and they seem to struggle more against the big awkward forwards. I remember years ago big Eorl Crabtree used to cause them all sorts of issues.

The Aussies excel in the basics and you aren't going beat them in that area. They play that better than us and refine it at a higher level week in, week out. You need to throw things at them that they aren't used to.

Exactly and for that reason alone Tom Burgess would not be included in the England team for me. I would rate him well down the list of prop forwards in abillity that play in the NRL. 

[Harry Stottle]

On 03/04/2021 at 16:13, Man of Kent said:

I like Currie. Good rugby brain. I’d have him in and move Bateman to do his offloading at 13 like a proper loose forward. 

Like a Dougie Laughton, Harry Pinner, Paul Sculthorpe or Andy Farrell or many more that I could name, as much as I like Bateman he is not in the league of 'proper loose forwards' for off loading or ball distribution for that matter.

[Harry Stottle]

On 03/04/2021 at 18:37, Damien said:

Farrell is certainly hugely underrated. He has an absolutely massive engine and huge workrate. He has a very good turn of pace too. He is exactly the sort of player who isn't considered in the same breath as the likes of Whitehead, Bateman and Sutton, by some, just because he doesn't play in the NRL. However what he has done in Super League surpasses any of those in my opinion.

Agreed with Farrell's contribution and form he has shown in SL over the years he doesn't have many peers, BUT I can't ever recall him transferring that form to the international stage against the better teams, he is not on his own in my opinion of very good SL player's who doesn't perform at the top level of international competition.

[Man of Kent]

8 minutes ago, Harry Stottle said:

Like a Dougie Laughton, Harry Pinner, Paul Sculthorpe or Andy Farrell or many more that I could name, as much as I like Bateman he is not in the league of 'proper loose forwards' for off loading or ball distribution for that matter.

OK, Bateman’s long passing is not in that mould but he’s got a very good offloading game. Surely anyone can see this?

[DavidM]

Bateman to me looks more comfortable on an edge , and the way him and whitehead played in the same team at 11 and 12 I personally wouldn’t be changing that . There weren’t any better pairings 

[JM2010]

Who's going to go first and name a starting pack for the WC?