wot - no scrums?

[wiggler]

After watching quite a few tries scored from scrums in the NRL I got to wondering where does the international game and, more specifically, the RLWC stand on scrums?  Does anybody know whether scrums are in or out for the RLWC?  If they are to be included in the World Cup then the British players and coaches are missing out on opportunities to develop scrum based moves and defensive tactics. 

[Oxford]

1 minute ago, wiggler said:

After watching quite a few tries scored from scrums in the NRL I got to wondering where does the international game and, more specifically, the RLWC stand on scrums?  Does anybody know whether scrums are in or out for the RLWC?  If they are to be included in the World Cup then the British players and coaches are missing out on opportunities to develop scrum based moves and defensive tactics. 

An irrelevant question the Aussies want them because they have them and they don't have enough things on their side.

[Curly perm]

They need to bring them back to make the game consistent. They tie players up and create a different attacking/defending dimension.

I realise it’s a covid thing but is it really doing much when the players are sharing changing rooms, training together etc?

[Spidey]

31 minutes ago, Curly perm said:

They need to bring them back to make the game consistent. They tie players up and create a different attacking/defending dimension.

I realise it’s a covid thing but is it really doing much when the players are sharing changing rooms, training together etc?

It’s to avoid transmission with the opposition

[gingerjon]

6 minutes ago, Spidey said:

It’s to avoid transmission with the opposition

Minimising risks. Even if, in isolation, each risk reduction element looks a little daft.

The alternative would be to keep adding the risks back in and then not be allowed to play at all.

[Man of Kent]

Another one of the many inconsistencies with Covid and there’s no evidence scrums increase transmission, even in yawnion.

I believe they will come back in the British game later this season when the charade comes to an end. 

[Spidey]

Just now, Man of Kent said:

Another one of the many inconsistencies with Covid and there’s no evidence scrums increase transmission, even in yawnion.

I believe they will come back in the British game later this season when the charade comes to an end. 

Political 

[Man of Kent]

1 minute ago, Spidey said:

Political 

Yes, exactly. I suppose the RFL had to show willing with all that government support. 

[Rupert Prince]

2 minutes ago, Spidey said:

Political 

RL politics.

[barnyia]

From the rules video the rfl released it looks like scruls are expected to be used this season when they're allowed to. As it mentioned choosing where you want thz scrum. Again I'm getting lost between nrl, super league and winter french rl rules

[gingerjon]

17 minutes ago, Man of Kent said:

Yes, exactly. I suppose the RFL had to show willing with all that government support. 

They wouldn’t have been allowed to play without producing a risk assessment the government agreed with.

With or without government loans.

[The Frying Scotsman]

1 hour ago, Oxford said:

An irrelevant question the Aussies want them because they have them and they don't have enough things on their side.

What does that mean exactly?

"On their side"

All the serious contenders for the World Cup: Aus, NZ, Tonga pick overwhelmingly from the NRL. The NRL has scrums.

Of the 'next' tier of countries: France and England effectively play without scrums. However PNG (lower league Australian comps), Samoa, Fiji all are Aus/NRL based for the most part.

You seem to be suggesting that it is some kind of England v Australia argument. Nearly everyone uses scrums so I think there is zero doubt they will be present in the World Cup. It's up to France and England to get up to speed with what the big boys are doing. 

[Eddie]

37 minutes ago, The Frying Scotsman said:

What does that mean exactly?

"On their side"

All the serious contenders for the World Cup: Aus, NZ, Tonga pick overwhelmingly from the NRL. The NRL has scrums.

Of the 'next' tier of countries: France and England effectively play without scrums. However PNG (lower league Australian comps), Samoa, Fiji all are Aus/NRL based for the most part.

You seem to be suggesting that it is some kind of England v Australia argument. Nearly everyone uses scrums so I think there is zero doubt they will be present in the World Cup. It's up to France and England to get up to speed with what the big boys are doing. 

Where would you have England in the list of teams’ chances of winning the WC? 

[Curly perm]

2 hours ago, gingerjon said:

Minimising risks. Even if, in isolation, each risk reduction element looks a little daft.

The alternative would be to keep adding the risks back in and then not be allowed to play at all.

Yeah, that’s fair enough. 

On the original question, I would expect scrums to be included in the World Cup. If it’s safe enough for the event to actually go ahead (with fans), then I think it’d have to be safe enough to have scrums. 

[The British Lion]

With or without scrums - I hate to say it, but England have very minimal chance of winning the illusive WC until we get beyond the 'one or two' warm up matches before a WC year, with bare internationals inside the 4 year cycle.

[Big Picture]

46 minutes ago, The British Lion said:

With or without scrums - I hate to say it, but England have very minimal chance of winning the illusive WC until we get beyond the 'one or two' warm up matches before a WC year, with bare internationals inside the 4 year cycle.

I wonder what the reaction will be if England get knocked out at the quarter-final stage?

[Wholly Trinity]

5 hours ago, Curly perm said:

They need to bring them back to make the game consistent. They tie players up and create a different attacking/defending dimension.

I realise it’s a covid thing but is it really doing much when the players are sharing changing rooms, training together etc?

Equally, they could abolish them to make the game consistent. 

I'm somewhat ambivalent on the subject. I can see the risk of reducing variety in the game but also see the absolute farce they became in SL.

I don't have access to NRL games, so I'm not sure how they're done or if they're policed differently. 

The notion that we can somehow go back to competitive scrums is a non-starter as anyone who has watched them transform over the years can testify. It would be hugely time consuming and disruptive and would most likely end in a plethora of penalties. 

If it's just to remove 12 players for one play, then maybe it's still possible. 

One improvement I would suggest is returning to having just the forwards packing down and binding 'properly'. The latest trend of having mostly backs loosely huddled momentarily and props/2nd rowers at first receiver sort of defeats the object and is aesthetically appalling.

I would make it against the rules for the 7 starting backs to go into the scrum. May be difficult to police in the game, but teams could be punished retrospectively if they have breached the rule or backs wear some kind of marker on their sleeve. 

Additionally, the two packs should be made to bind properly before engaging. This could be included in the shot clock time (if that's still a thing) and penalised accordingly. 

[The Frying Scotsman]

6 hours ago, Eddie said:

Where would you have England in the list of teams’ chances of winning the WC? 

I'd go 4th.

I know PNG smashed them on the last tour, but I suspect England would have enough depth to squeak past them over a whole tournament.

[Oxford]

20 hours ago, The Frying Scotsman said:

What does that mean exactly?

"On their side"

All the serious contenders for the World Cup: Aus, NZ, Tonga pick overwhelmingly from the NRL. The NRL has scrums.

Of the 'next' tier of countries: France and England effectively play without scrums. However PNG (lower league Australian comps), Samoa, Fiji all are Aus/NRL based for the most part.

You seem to be suggesting that it is some kind of England v Australia argument. Nearly everyone uses scrums so I think there is zero doubt they will be present in the World Cup. It's up to France and England to get up to speed with what the big boys are doing. 

You asked what that means and then demonstrate you clearly understood.

In one sense the condescension is only to be expected.

All the serious contenders ?  Be your age FS. If you want a real discussion let me know.

[The Frying Scotsman]

49 minutes ago, Oxford said:

 

In one sense the condescension is only to be expected.

All the serious contenders ?  Be your age FS. If you want a real discussion let me know.

I just wondered why you tried to make it some kind of Aus v Eng thing. It seems so utterly illogical.

Admittedly NZ are probably not a "serious" contender, but I just figured with Tonga being a bit of a mess, then NZ may be able to entice some dual qualified Tongan guys to declare for the Kiwis. But yeah... Fair enough, Australia are probably the only truly serious contender. I was listing 3 and trying to be optimistic.

I don't think there is any need for insults. 

[Oxford]

2 hours ago, The Frying Scotsman said:

I just wondered why you tried to make it some kind of Aus v Eng thing. It seems so utterly illogical.

Admittedly NZ are probably not a "serious" contender, but I just figured with Tonga being a bit of a mess, then NZ may be able to entice some dual qualified Tongan guys to declare for the Kiwis. But yeah... Fair enough, Australia are probably the only truly serious contender. I was listing 3 and trying to be optimistic.

I don't think there is any need for insults. 

There were no insults in my post.

Well FS the WC is being held in England where they've opted for no scrums and in Oz they haven't. The rules that dominate should be determined by the host Nation but I just bet they won't be.  As far back as I can remember the Aussies have been dominant off and on the field they don't need any advantages but if there is any discussion or issue around the rules they'll insist and get their own way as usual.

I think that if all the teams get their strongest sides out those you mentioned would be favourites for the semis.

[The Frying Scotsman]

7 hours ago, Oxford said:

 

I think that if all the teams get their strongest sides out those you mentioned would be favourites for the semis.

So why did you laugh when I said "all the serious contenders" ?

You have just admitted that Australia have dominated on and off the field, and I mentioned the Kiwis (possibly) and Tonga (if they get their best team out) as other possibilities. What's so funny about that? 

 

The idea that:

" The rules that dominate should be determined by the host Nation" is absolutely laughable.

What sport takes an obscure local rule that is used only in in the hosting country's local league, and rolls it out in their World Cup???? 

The answer is None. (Or no serious sport anyway). 

 

 

[Spidey]

 

[Oxford]

12 hours ago, The Frying Scotsman said:

So why did you laugh when I said "all the serious contenders" ?

You have just admitted that Australia have dominated on and off the field, and I mentioned the Kiwis (possibly) and Tonga (if they get their best team out) as other possibilities. What's so funny about that? 

 

The idea that:

" The rules that dominate should be determined by the host Nation" is absolutely laughable.

What sport takes an obscure local rule that is used only in in the hosting country's local league, and rolls it out in their World Cup???? 

The answer is None. (Or no serious sport anyway). 

 

 

I laughed because you left out England.

First and foremost we are not talking about normal times. The question is about scrums and the WC. There are two variants of the rules at the moment, one with limited scrums and one without them altogether. If a decision is to be made about scrums the Aussies will decide and insist that their rules apply and the rest of the world will give way, like they always do. This will give the Diggers an advantage they hardly need.

It could be back to the silly International Rules variety of course.

You mentioned serious sport in your tangential argument: What serious sport has 3 different rule books for their game?

[Oxford]

On 06/04/2021 at 18:33, Spidey said:

Political 

And it was not allowed!

Mind you someone mentioning Yawn & politics could see the RLWC locked or sent to the Twilight Zone 

"Anything can happen in the next half hour!" der der der der, der der der der!