Salford could become homeless

[Northern Eel]

12 minutes ago, Sir Kevin Sinfield said:

Wigan were the same I believe 

Wigan had the chance to sell Central Park to Dave Whelan to be redeveloped, but chose to sell to Tesco's for 3 times that of what DW offered. I am sure they invested most of that in the new stadium venture, but happy to stand corrected.

[Northern Eel]

3 minutes ago, Rupert Prince said:

It depends on the terms of the lease and whether clubs keep up the payments.  Plus in terms of councils what covenants they apply.

Agreed, and that's what I mean. It all seems unfavourable.

[ATLANTISMAN]

Thats why I love the councils attitude to sport in Europe (France especially) what would be considered pure socialism in the UK is seen (By left and right) as a public service.

 

Paul

[Rupert Prince]

2 minutes ago, Northern Eel said:

Wigan had the chance to sell Central Park to Dave Whelan to be redeveloped, but chose to sell to Tesco's for 3 times that of what DW offered. I am sure they invested most of that in the new stadium venture, but happy to stand corrected.

My memory is Whelan bought Latics and Wigan.  Eventually he sold Wigan Warriors who have a 50 year lease.  Wigan now operate all the sports match day facities around the DW, not sure if they outright own it, but they must get some income in normal times.

Obviously owning a stadium incurs costs. After 50 years it might gave to be rebuilt.  This is a problem a number clubs have run into in previous decades.  Its not all a bed of roses.

[Hela Wigmen]

Manchester Hornet Lion Devils has quite the ring to it. 

[DI Keith Fowler]

RFL should get a government loan to buy it (or grant if they can feign the right accent for the duration of the call and claim it's for rugger). Call it the Rugby League National Stadium and develop the small sides in turn. 

I've knocked up a quick render. 

[Bostik Bailey]

So another Lancashire clubs looks likely to fade away because they believed unless they got a new ground they would be kicked out of the top flight. They should have just followed  the same model as Wakefield and Cas and just put all the sky money into half decent antipodeans and salary cap cast offs from other clubs, rather than try to bring then game into the 21st Century.

[Padge]

20 minutes ago, Rupert Prince said:

My memory is Whelan bought Latics and Wigan.  Eventually he sold Wigan Warriors who have a 50 year lease.  Wigan now operate all the sports match day facities around the DW, not sure if they outright own it, but they must get some income in normal times.

Obviously owning a stadium incurs costs. After 50 years it might gave to be rebuilt.  This is a problem a number clubs have run into in previous decades.  Its not all a bed of roses.

I could run through the whole saga yet again, but I'll just say there is a lot more to it than that.

[M j M]

26 minutes ago, Bostik Bailey said:

So another Lancashire clubs looks likely to fade away because they believed unless they got a new ground they would be kicked out of the top flight. They should have just followed  the same model as Wakefield and Cas and just put all the sky money into half decent antipodeans and salary cap cast offs from other clubs, rather than try to bring then game into the 21st Century.

Painting this as a Lancashire/Yorkshire thing is a very strange thing to do.

 

[The 4 of Us]

If Sale buy it, that may well be subject to the existing leases. If not, you would expect that Salford would be entitled to some sort of compensation in lieu of the remaining lease which in turn may well offset against what is owed to the council.

There was some discussion a couple of weeks ago about the land around the stadium being developed. The Sale owners are not stupid and well connected. They will have done there sums. Can’t see Salford getting close.

That being said, can’t see why Sale would want Salford out. If nothing else they help share the bills. Even better make it a year round business and merge the 2. 

[HawkMan]

Would Salford and Salford FC swapping grounds be advantageous at all, to both sides perhaps. It would certainly fit the prospective probable needs of both clubs current trajectories.

[plug]

I no fans on the forums pull fev down as a little pit village but were not a village were a town just like many RL teams but unlike many RL teams we own our own stadium about 14 acres of prime biulding land so i say on paper were better off than a lot of so called big boys in SL and we don't even have a suger daddy called sky if sky ever pulled the plug on rugby how many of the so called big teams will survive on gate money alone ??

[Hela Wigmen]

1 minute ago, HawkMan said:

Would Salford and Salford FC swapping grounds be advantageous at all, to both sides perhaps. It would certainly fit the prospective probable needs of both clubs current trajectories.

No, it wouldn’t. Not that it would happen, Salford City FC have spent loads refurbing their ground and wouldn’t want or need to move to Salford RL’s ground. 

[Damien]

42 minutes ago, The 4 of Us said:

If Sale buy it, that may well be subject to the existing leases. If not, you would expect that Salford would be entitled to some sort of compensation in lieu of the remaining lease which in turn may well offset against what is owed to the council.

There was some discussion a couple of weeks ago about the land around the stadium being developed. The Sale owners are not stupid and well connected. They will have done there sums. Can’t see Salford getting close.

That being said, can’t see why Sale would want Salford out. If nothing else they help share the bills. Even better make it a year round business and merge the 2. 

Sale change their tune constantly. It was literally only a few months ago when they outlined plans for a new ground in Sale and said their future lied there.

[Mrgameandwatch]

"plans for a new ground in Sale"

I think this was the aim for sale but they would never have been able to get the planning permission. The plan to buy the current stadium would be a poor 2nd choice.

The AJ bell just isn't in a good location. Imo in this country a sports ground needs to be accessible by public transport, people don't like driving to games.

One thing I want to try when fans are allowed back is to see how long it would take me to walk from the new Trafford Centre tram stop. The stadium will be more viable for both salford and sale if the proposed tram extension that includes the stadium gets built. 

[The Frying Scotsman]

4 hours ago, moorside roughyed said:

Roughyeds had Watersheddings, Hornets had they're own ground. But they lost them. All I'm saying is that amongst the smaller clubs the fan base has shrunk and aged a fare bit. Rugby league seems to me to be shrinking in greater Manchester. 

A very valid point. I think this might be worth a thread of its own. That area between Rochdale/Oldham across to Huddersfield/Halifax and a bit beyond is under huge pressure in terms of participation numbers.

The game will be gone from Oldham inside a generation if something doesn't change strategically very soon.

I think the Salford situation is serious (and quite tragic given that they (Red Devils) are basically the reason the stadium got built!) so don't want to derail this thread. However the Oldham/Gtr Manchester situation should probably be discussed elsewhere on here too. It is all important stuff IMO.

[The Frying Scotsman]

1 hour ago, ShropshireBull said:

RL in Manchester feels on life support.  Salford stadium too big and nowhere near the city.  Swinton were talking years ago about building ground but never happened.  Rochdale ground way too big.  Oldham homeless. No Manchester academy. 

This isnt a "they should merge" message but could Salford and Swinton gang up to get a 5000 3G stadium somewhere?

Makes decision to not let in Manchester Rangers look massively short sighted

100%.

[egm]

I second the public transport thing. I’ve found this with football grounds a lot too. Marketing it as “ooh look at us we’re beside the motorway” isn’t good enough. Drives down numbers, young people do not want to drive to games

[DG70]

Side story but I can see why Watson jumped ship.

[The Frying Scotsman]

13 minutes ago, egm said:

I second the public transport thing. I’ve found this with football grounds a lot too. Marketing it as “ooh look at us we’re beside the motorway” isn’t good enough. Drives down numbers, young people do not want to drive to games

How do Sale Sharks get 8000 on average at the same ground? I know a guy who went to watch Glasgow play them at the AJ Bell, and he was enthusing about it. Said it was amazing as there was a non stop procession of free shuttle buses from the Trafford centre. He said he thought he missed his, but another one arrived a minute later. Said they could eat drink etc at the Trafford centre and then just jump on a bus to the stadium and back again. This guy loved it. I can't comment as I went to the last game at the Willows but never tried the AJ Bell.

[Damien]

8 minutes ago, The Frying Scotsman said:

How do Sale Sharks get 8000 on average at the same ground? I know a guy who went to watch Glasgow play them at the AJ Bell, and he was enthusing about it. Said it was amazing as there was a non stop procession of free shuttle buses from the Trafford centre. He said he thought he missed his, but another one arrived a minute later. Said they could eat drink etc at the Trafford centre and then just jump on a bus to the stadium and back again. This guy loved it. I can't comment as I went to the last game at the Willows but never tried the AJ Bell.

They don't, they've never averaged 8000 there.

[egm]

20 minutes ago, The Frying Scotsman said:

How do Sale Sharks get 8000 on average at the same ground? I know a guy who went to watch Glasgow play them at the AJ Bell, and he was enthusing about it. Said it was amazing as there was a non stop procession of free shuttle buses from the Trafford centre. He said he thought he missed his, but another one arrived a minute later. Said they could eat drink etc at the Trafford centre and then just jump on a bus to the stadium and back again. This guy loved it. I can't comment as I went to the last game at the Willows but never tried the AJ Bell.

they averaged more in Stockport

[The Frying Scotsman]

4 hours ago, Damien said:

They don't, they've never averaged 8000 there.

OK. I had no idea, so googled it and a figure round about 7900 came up. For the last season that they had crowds.

How much do they average?

[Mrgameandwatch]

Think sale has tended to average somewhere around 6500.

I wasn't aware of the shuttle buses from the Trafford Centre. If that's still a thing now the tram stop is there that would make access a lot easier. Salford should try and do something similar.

[moorside roughyed]

10 hours ago, The Frying Scotsman said:

A very valid point. I think this might be worth a thread of its own. That area between Rochdale/Oldham across to Huddersfield/Halifax and a bit beyond is under huge pressure in terms of participation numbers.

The game will be gone from Oldham inside a generation if something doesn't change strategically very soon.

I think the Salford situation is serious (and quite tragic given that they (Red Devils) are basically the reason the stadium got built!) so don't want to derail this thread. However the Oldham/Gtr Manchester situation should probably be discussed elsewhere on here too. It is all important stuff IMO.

You could throw Swinton into the mix as well. Having their own ground then losing it. The amateur situation in Oldham isn't too bad with Saddleworth Rangers (my club), St Anne's, waterhead and the others doing OK. The problem is that kids want to support big teams eg Leeds, Wigan etc. The same as soccer with kids wanting to support united, City, Liverpool etc. They don't seem to be interested in their own town team.