moorside roughyed Posted April 9, 2021 Share Posted April 9, 2021 17 minutes ago, The Frying Scotsman said: Fair enough Moorside and good to hear. I really thought it was slowly dying out. I can only speak about what I see in Oldham. It's getting the kids to stay with the game into adulthood, they seem to fall away which is a real shame. Obviously as you get older and bigger the game gets tougher, some of them might find it too tough. Like I say most kids follow Leeds, Wigan etc (big clubs). The crowds at Oldham, if you can call it that are getting smaller and older. This I feel is the biggest shame, not supporting your local club, which I have always done. If I was a soocer fan it'd be Oldham athletic. I fear for the game as a whole as I feel it is contracting and getting smaller, the crowds at Wembley in recent years tell a story. I find in particularly worrying. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scubby Posted April 9, 2021 Share Posted April 9, 2021 2 minutes ago, ShropshireBull said: Problem again is one of infrastructure. What crowds do you need to compete in SL and what ground size helps create it. I'd argue 6-6,500 ground with 3g is the sweet spot. RL seems to have these horrible soulless grounds (Hud, Sal, Wigan bar big games) or no ground at all. If a 6k ground is a sweet spot for one of only two fully professional RL competitions in the world then we are ###### We need to aspire to raise standards not lower them. A decade ago we were averaging 10k per game in SL, why isn;t it 12-15k now? That is how growth works - with ambition. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
redjonn Posted April 9, 2021 Share Posted April 9, 2021 2 minutes ago, Scubby said: If a 6k ground is a sweet spot for one of only two fully professional RL competitions in the world then we are ###### We need to aspire to raise standards not lower them. A decade ago we were averaging 10k per game in SL, why isn;t it 12-15k now? That is how growth works - with ambition. generally I would agree, but... always a but... may be more advantageous to grow the revenue spend per person... attracting a demographic that can spend more money.. of course assuming improved facilities. Plus of course attracting more commercial even if local hospitality and sponsorship... say as distinct from slashing prices to get a bigger crowd.. just making a point that could focus on another path first, that in itself attracts more people to sample the great facilities and hospitality to go with great entertainment on the pitch. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scubby Posted April 9, 2021 Share Posted April 9, 2021 3 minutes ago, redjonn said: generally I would agree, but... always a but... may be more advantageous to grow the revenue spend per person... attracting a demographic that can spend more money.. of course assuming improved facilities. Plus of course attracting more commercial even if local hospitality and sponsorship... say as distinct from slashing prices to get a bigger crowd.. just making a point that could focus on another path first, that in itself attracts more people to sample the great facilities and hospitality to go with great entertainment on the pitch. I know what you are saying John but we need new audiences and lots of them. You can't keep going to the same well over and over again until it is dry. If Toulouse get into SL that could be 10-20k full time French RL fans across two clubs spending money, buying merchandise and expanding the game. As much as I love the history of Salford, Wakefield and Huddersfield etc, you can literally get 3-5k anywhere in the country for a SL team. At the moment, these clubs are living solely on the back of being neighbours to bigger clubs. They have to be able to pack stadiums themselves to show their worth. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Red Willow Posted April 9, 2021 Share Posted April 9, 2021 Ged Mason's company is a major Sponsor of Salford, they are a local firm with headquarters in Eccles. Not sure they would want to alienate the Council. Salford need to raise their profile, have some real investment and be sustainable. All of which is a big ask. The ground is in the expanded city of Salford and saying it isn't is just looking for excuses. Fans don't just live in M3, M5 or M6. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scubby Posted April 9, 2021 Share Posted April 9, 2021 1 minute ago, ShropshireBull said: I think you are missing the point. For clubs like Oldham a 6,000 3g stadium that can generate revenue and would be perfect to rebuild the fanbase. It might work for Oldham but won't work for SL. We have to make a decision who is capable of being top class vibrant full time professional clubs that can attract big audiences, income and growth, or we stay as a local M62 competition which is grateful for 1000 visiting fans. When Oldham were last in SL the RU club competition in England was barely averaging 5,000. Before the pandemic it got close to a 15k average. SL has decreased in the last decade and it largely because it is continually going back to the same fan base and asking them to spend more money. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scubby Posted April 9, 2021 Share Posted April 9, 2021 Just now, ShropshireBull said: Two different discussions. It isn't, clubs like Wakefield/Cas, Salford/Swinton/Oldham should be looking at trying to combine efforts to get 10-15k stadiums. Having a scattergun of 5k stadiums around isn't helping anyone. What is the point of all these clubs having ###### falling to pieces stadiums, or sharing with RU or park fields? The geography here is negligible. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Spidey Posted April 9, 2021 Share Posted April 9, 2021 6 minutes ago, ShropshireBull said: All the more reason why Manchester Rangers snub looks unforgiveable. Playing out of City Academy Stadium (7000 so perfect size), perfect transport links just being 10 mins by metro from centre. Would've had plenty of comercial opportunities as they climbed the leagues... Madness Where are Rangers now though? Looks to me they didn’t have the foundations in place Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Spidey Posted April 9, 2021 Share Posted April 9, 2021 2 minutes ago, ShropshireBull said: RFL said merge with Oldham or no and investors said ok we quit. They spat their dummy out a bit. They could have followed say the Coventry model but didn’t want to put the hard work in Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Spidey Posted April 9, 2021 Share Posted April 9, 2021 1 hour ago, ShropshireBull said: They were blocked from League 1 so they couldnt and they put more than enough into the amatuer game. RFL were just stupid. They did about five seasons in the amateur game. I could list a hundred clubs who did more. They needed to establish themselves more, try the national conference and re-apply to League one. If they hanged around a bit longer I’d expect them to get accepted now. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hela Wigmen Posted April 9, 2021 Share Posted April 9, 2021 1 hour ago, ShropshireBull said: They were blocked from League 1 so they couldnt and they put more than enough into the amatuer game. RFL were just stupid. This opinion about Manchester Rangers seems to get peddled quite a bit. I can’t say I know a lot about them but why were Manchester the golden ticket or is it just another case of people getting a bit too excited about a project ala so many others. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lucky 7 Posted April 9, 2021 Share Posted April 9, 2021 On 09/04/2021 at 02:33, moorside roughyed said: Sounds a bit grim to me. The question is like a few other clubs around Greater Manchester - is rugby league big enough in these towns anymore? I'm an Oldham fan and we're lucky if we get 700 at a home game, definitely not enough to support a club, ground and wages etc. The Benjamin Brandreth philosophy should be tried, where mass advertising is used to make many people as possible of your product. Product awareness it's called and has been used in the past and present successfully for many products in the USA including sports Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
moorside roughyed Posted April 9, 2021 Share Posted April 9, 2021 4 minutes ago, lucky 7 said: The Benjamin Brandreth philosophy should be tried, where mass advertising is used to make many people as possible of your product. Product awareness it's called and has been used in the past and present successfully for many products in the USA including sports I've heard of Giles Brandreth. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lucky 7 Posted April 9, 2021 Share Posted April 9, 2021 6 minutes ago, moorside roughyed said: I've heard of Giles Brandreth. He's great great grandfather who made a fortune in the US in the 19th century Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dboy Posted April 9, 2021 Share Posted April 9, 2021 5 hours ago, Scubby said: As much as I love the history of Salford, Wakefield and Huddersfield etc, you can literally get 3-5k anywhere in the country for a SL team. At the moment, these clubs are living solely on the back of being neighbours to bigger clubs. They have to be able to pack stadiums themselves to show their worth. Maybe. But new teams, let's say Bristol, Newcastle and Nottingham, would not produce the amount of players that Wakefield & Hudds (I really don't know about Salford's record), do for the professional game. Such places should replace "established" clubs, when they too have a net contribution to the game. If Hudds and Wakey drop out without being replaced by a something more sustainable, then the game will suffer a net loss. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scubby Posted April 9, 2021 Share Posted April 9, 2021 3 minutes ago, dboy said: Maybe. But new teams, let's say Bristol, Newcastle and Nottingham, would not produce the amount of players that Wakefield & Hudds (I really don't know about Salford's record), do for the professional game. Such places should replace "established" clubs, when they too have a net contribution to the game. If Hudds and Wakey drop out without being replaced by a something more sustainable, then the game will suffer a net loss. I get what you are saying but Melbourne has a feeder club in Brisbane. Does anyone care there are no locals playing for the Storm? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lucky 7 Posted April 9, 2021 Share Posted April 9, 2021 8 minutes ago, dboy said: Maybe. But new teams, let's say Bristol, Newcastle and Nottingham, would not produce the amount of players that Wakefield & Hudds (I really don't know about Salford's record), do for the professional game. Such places should replace "established" clubs, when they too have a net contribution to the game. If Hudds and Wakey drop out without being replaced by a something more sustainable, then the game will suffer a net loss. I'm in the camp that says that every super league should have an academy and every club in the championship should have an academy up and running if they want to play in super league. No academy for me means no super league place Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
David Dockhouse Host Posted April 9, 2021 Share Posted April 9, 2021 On 08/04/2021 at 17:33, moorside roughyed said: Sounds a bit grim to me. The question is like a few other clubs around Greater Manchester - is rugby league big enough in these towns anymore? I'm an Oldham fan and we're lucky if we get 700 at a home game, definitely not enough to support a club, ground and wages etc. Used to get that for A team games at the Watersheddings. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
moorside roughyed Posted April 9, 2021 Share Posted April 9, 2021 4 minutes ago, David Dockhouse Host said: Used to get that for A team games at the Watersheddings. I know. That's how bad its got. I remember the Sheddings days. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dboy Posted April 9, 2021 Share Posted April 9, 2021 16 minutes ago, Johnoco said: Keeping the game reliant on players from a certain area becomes a self fulfilling prophecy, whereby it can be proved that these areas are sacred and are the only ones that can produce RL players. Don't put words in my mouth - I am not suggesting any club is sacred. I'm saying replace them by all means, but only when the net value of the replacement is higher than what they are replacing. I'm a Wakey fan and don't think the potential pinnacle of the sport would see us in there...but will we ever see the sport realise it's rightful place in the sporting hierarchy? No. That's down to media bias and inept governance of the sport. I'd love to see RL properly recognised and would gladly sacrifice my club's place at the top table to see it. I need not worry though. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lucky 7 Posted April 9, 2021 Share Posted April 9, 2021 A lot of the games problems are self inflicted and very frustrating for fans of the game Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lucky 7 Posted April 9, 2021 Share Posted April 9, 2021 7 minutes ago, ShropshireBull said: Don't know why people are talking about replacing clubs. SL needs to go to 14 teams and that means having a few more who could step up and compete near the top (which means generate enough revenue to spend the cap). Right now, that would be Newcastle , Toulouse and York. Not a single team in the Manchester region could say the same and that is the problem. Match day awareness is more important than ever when fans can return to game Some clubs need to do a lot more than they have done in the recent past to get people coming through the gate Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pie tries Posted April 9, 2021 Share Posted April 9, 2021 1 hour ago, lucky 7 said: I'm in the camp that says that every super league should have an academy and every club in the championship should have an academy up and running if they want to play in super league. No academy for me means no super league place Hear hear ! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bleep1673 Posted April 10, 2021 Share Posted April 10, 2021 23 hours ago, Leyther_Matt said: Although it looks good on the surface, the actual stands are temporary metal steps rather than concrete terracing, with the toilets and food outlets still being portakabins and the like. But yes the pitch would be a big issue. They will feel at home then, The Willows was just like that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Leyther_Matt Posted April 10, 2021 Share Posted April 10, 2021 1 hour ago, Bleep1673 said: They will feel at home then, The Willows was just like that. Brick wall without a roof > Portakabin Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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