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Rugby league seems to be struggling in the Manchester area. Salford have been the success story of the past couple of years but rumours they could be forced out of their stadium. Oldham and Swinton don’t play in their towns and have dwindling support, Rochdale Mayfield seem to be doing better than the Hornets. 
 

How do we kickstart the sport in Manchester in the middle of the heartlands? 

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Well I think a team had a plan (was it manchester rangers?) playing out of the modern man city campus, they also wanted to link in with the colkeges and university.. The RFL said no thanks.

Schools and Community clubs to begin with and that's hard work

Salford are working on that, there are some new clubs in the fold.

1 hour ago, Mr Plow said:

Rugby league seems to be struggling in the Manchester area. Salford have been the success story of the past couple of years but rumours they could be forced out of their stadium. Oldham and Swinton don’t play in their towns and have dwindling support, Rochdale Mayfield seem to be doing better than the Hornets. 
 

How do we kickstart the sport in Manchester in the middle of the heartlands? 

Fold the two big football clubs that dominate everyone’s attention there?

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1 hour ago, Mr Plow said:

Rugby league seems to be struggling in the Manchester area. Salford have been the success story of the past couple of years but rumours they could be forced out of their stadium. Oldham and Swinton don’t play in their towns and have dwindling support, Rochdale Mayfield seem to be doing better than the Hornets. 
 

How do we kickstart the sport in Manchester in the middle of the heartlands? 

Schools and Community clubs to begin with and that's hard work

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2 hours ago, Red Willow said:

Salford are working on that, there are some new clubs in the fold.

New clubs - where?

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Manchester has in my experience always been on the  league /union boundary.  Although Swinton (4 cups) Salford and Oldham have had strong sides and great success, it's always been a struggle for them. It's only got worse as these boroughs were gradually absorbed into metropolitan Manchester. 

Broughton Rangers became Belle Vue Rangers but it just didn't last. I lived in Swinton and played briefly and feebly for Moorside Juniors and Swinton Supporters. I went to secondary school in Salford 1957 to 1962. We played union. Tipton, the history teacher,  told me not to bring my rugby league way of playing with me. 

We really struggled to put a side together at Moorside Juniors but when a mate dragged me down to the Manchester YMCA playing fields on Princess Parkway in the early to mid 1960s, I found they were running three teams. 

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Four legs good - two legs bad

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I can’t speak for Swinton or Rochdale, but Oldham need consistent Championship rugby played in the town, whilst engaging with the amateur scene. I’m not in-and-around the club as much as I’d like as I now live outside the borough, but it seems the club are happy playing in Stalybridge, even though many fans find it a pig to get to and attendances are dropping. There was even a club statement published stating their disappointment in the attendance after a game in the curtailed 2020 season.

There needs to be a coming together of club, fans, officials etc. to hammer out a plan, as long term it’s only going to go one way. There’s no easy answers, especially given the ownership issues around Boundary Park, which is an absolute minefield with the relationship between the soccer club and stadium owners.

A purpose built stadium and hub for RL in the town would be the absolute dream. Ground-sharing at Boundary Park or moving in with St. Anne’s or at Whitebank and developing the site perhaps more realistic. Plans for Boundary Park to be sold for housing and new dual purpose stadium in Failsworth to be built we’re put forward but we’re rejected. 

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Well I think a team had a plan (was it manchester rangers?) playing out of the modern man city campus, they also wanted to link in with the colkeges and university..

The RFL said no thanks.

Didnt Koukash try to buy Swinton?

Wasnt Koukash forced out of Salford?

Seems like the powers that be dont want a strong Manchester region, they also seemed scared of Toronto and Tolouse and any other potential club that would upset the status quo

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Rugby league has been limping along in Oldham for years. I'm afraid this will not change in my view as the game just doesn't seem to have the pull it used to do. The fact they don't play in the town any more doesn't help. The Stalybridge ground is a bit of a swine to get to for some. Most kids seem to lean towards soccer and the two huge soccer clubs in United and City. Even Oldham Athletic have suffered in this regard. The amateur game seems to be doing OK. I really hope things will get better with the towns rugby league club but tbh I can't see it. I was brought up just a stones throw away from watersheddings and I can remember getting excited about the weekends game against whoever we were playing. These days seem a lifetime ago. Whatever happens I'll always be a "roughyed". 

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Suppose it depends on the definition of kickstart?

If by that you mean a club in the greater Manchester area being truly successful on the pitch and a stable club off it, at a level high enough to really impact the perception of RL in the area, then only Salford in the current RFL/SL structure have any chance, and they have their work cut out.

If Salford have to move grounds, they’ll just end up being like London and whatever they do their hard work in attracting new supporters will be eroded every time their “tenancy” in a stadium is up. History suggests it’s not sustainable.

Probably unpopular, but the licensing method if done right, was arguably a better system for establishing clubs in the areas that the game wants or needs them.

It’s rarely done right though.

 

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1 hour ago, Markos said:

Suppose it depends on the definition of kickstart?

If by that you mean a club in the greater Manchester area being truly successful on the pitch and a stable club off it, at a level high enough to really impact the perception of RL in the area, then only Salford in the current RFL/SL structure have any chance, and they have their work cut out.

If Salford have to move grounds, they’ll just end up being like London and whatever they do their hard work in attracting new supporters will be eroded every time their “tenancy” in a stadium is up. History suggests it’s not sustainable.

Probably unpopular, but the licensing method if done right, was arguably a better system for establishing clubs in the areas that the game wants or needs them.

It’s rarely done right though.

 

I think if the RFL were to decide key areas to invest in for growth in the UK I’d be looking at Newcastle, London, Midlands and Manchester. Biggest city on the M62 corridor. It does seem to me from an outsiders view that there are some clubs just happy with being at the level they’re at. 
 

As I said previously, Salford have been the success story of the past couple of years. If they had crowds on 7-8k on a regular basis I think people would have a different view of them

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1 hour ago, Mr Plow said:

I think if the RFL were to decide key areas to invest in for growth in the UK I’d be looking at Newcastle, London, Midlands and Manchester. Biggest city on the M62 corridor. It does seem to me from an outsiders view that there are some clubs just happy with being at the level they’re at. 
 

As I said previously, Salford have been the success story of the past couple of years. If they had crowds on 7-8k on a regular basis I think people would have a different view of them

Are we teaching new kids, how to play every season? Ideally, more than we taught last year. If not, we're doomed. 

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1 hour ago, Mr Plow said:

I think if the RFL were to decide key areas to invest in for growth in the UK I’d be looking at Newcastle, London, Midlands and Manchester. Biggest city on the M62 corridor. It does seem to me from an outsiders view that there are some clubs just happy with being at the level they’re at. 
 

As I said previously, Salford have been the success story of the past couple of years. If they had crowds on 7-8k on a regular basis I think people would have a different view of them

I don’t disagree with this at all.

I’ve often read through threads (often the Toronto based chats) and not posted for fear of being labelled anti-expansionist. I’m not, but sometimes I look at how they try to do it, and think it’s a bit of a stretch when we haven’t successfully squeezed everything out of the UK and France

Super League with a Manchester, Newcastle and possibly even Liverpool (though probably unwise due to strong teams in the catchment) and Sheffield teams would look a bit more big time than it currently is. A bit more appealing to the casual fan?

All arguably doable with the right support from the powers that be 

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17 hours ago, Mr Plow said:

Rugby league seems to be struggling in the Manchester area. Salford have been the success story of the past couple of years but rumours they could be forced out of their stadium. Oldham and Swinton don’t play in their towns and have dwindling support, Rochdale Mayfield seem to be doing better than the Hornets. 
 

How do we kickstart the sport in Manchester in the middle of the heartlands? 

Mergers.   Investment.

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19 hours ago, Mr Plow said:

Rugby league seems to be struggling in the Manchester area. Salford have been the success story of the past couple of years but rumours they could be forced out of their stadium. Oldham and Swinton don’t play in their towns and have dwindling support, Rochdale Mayfield seem to be doing better than the Hornets. 
 

How do we kickstart the sport in Manchester in the middle of the heartlands? 

Will expand on what I said on the previous thread. Can Manchester (the city, not the region) with its 550,000 population support a Super League club? Absolutely. Does the infrastructure exist for such a club? Yes again, there's a perfectly sized 7,000 capacity stadium at Velopark which has excellent transport connections to the heart of the city. The metro reaches all the way out to Ashton Under Lyne in less than 30 mins which means a good chunk of Tameside's 200,000 plus population is in reach.

1% of the population within a 30 minute metro ride would fill the stadium, this is before you can start to advertise games against Salford, Warrington and Leeds.

I don't think mergers are worth doing and nor should a new club (let's say Manchester Rangers reborn) be trying to do that. I'd see the role of a new Manc club to re-vitalise the game across the region by giving it the exposure at top national level to assist the Oldham's and Swinton's when in comes to community development and giving public backing to getting proper stadiums. But that only happens if Manc has a SL club and the only realistic chance is a new club at Velopark. Why? 

Because the commercial partners and opportunities that would exist with such a club are as big as Leeds, which would give Rangers the budget to compete and use the money to make a 'splash signing' (ex RU international who has been brought in to get sponsors as much as on the field) that cements them as a permanent SL team and consistent challenge cup challenger, which again gives sponsors a national audience. 

For one or two season's a Manchester Rangers would be competition for the other Manchester clubs but long term, Rangers would have the facilities and finances to run a SL Academy and be playing on Friday nights anyway, so would again be assisting not hurting Oldham or Rochdale.

Take them 2/3 years to get to SL (although I suspect if there was a club that was knocking on the door with a great stadium and good sponsors the likes of Leeds and St Helens would be pushing to make SL a 14 team comp anyway) but would be a consistent profit making club. Then, we'd have Leeds, Manchester and Newcastle which would completely transform the profile and commercial opportunities for the sport in the UK.

So yeah we could do this, or we could keep banning entry because it might take away 30 fans from Oldham. 

 

 

 

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15 minutes ago, ShropshireBull said:

Will expand on what I said on the previous thread. Can Manchester (the city, not the region) with its 550,000 population support a Super League club? Absolutely. Does the infrastructure exist for such a club? Yes again, there's a perfectly sized 7,000 capacity stadium at Velopark which has excellent transport connections to the heart of the city. The metro reaches all the way out to Ashton Under Lyne in less than 30 mins which means a good chunk of Tameside's 200,000 plus population is in reach.

1% of the population within a 30 minute metro ride would fill the stadium, this is before you can start to advertise games against Salford, Warrington and Leeds.

I don't think mergers are worth doing and nor should a new club (let's say Manchester Rangers reborn) be trying to do that. I'd see the role of a new Manc club to re-vitalise the game across the region by giving it the exposure at top national level to assist the Oldham's and Swinton's when in comes to community development and giving public backing to getting proper stadiums. But that only happens if Manc has a SL club and the only realistic chance is a new club at Velopark. Why? 

Because the commercial partners and opportunities that would exist with such a club are as big as Leeds, which would give Rangers the budget to compete and use the money to make a 'splash signing' (ex RU international who has been brought in to get sponsors as much as on the field) that cements them as a permanent SL team and consistent challenge cup challenger, which again gives sponsors a national audience. 

For one or two season's a Manchester Rangers would be competition for the other Manchester clubs but long term, Rangers would have the facilities and finances to run a SL Academy and be playing on Friday nights anyway, so would again be assisting not hurting Oldham or Rochdale.

Take them 2/3 years to get to SL (although I suspect if there was a club that was knocking on the door with a great stadium and good sponsors the likes of Leeds and St Helens would be pushing to make SL a 14 team comp anyway) but would be a consistent profit making club. Then, we'd have Leeds, Manchester and Newcastle which would completely transform the profile and commercial opportunities for the sport in the UK.

So yeah we could do this, or we could keep banning entry because it might take away 30 fans from Oldham. 

 

 

 

Spot on. What happened to Manchester Rangers is a travesty. How an earth this sport doesn't have a Manchester named club is just unbelievable.

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3 minutes ago, The Daddy said:

Spot on. What happened to Manchester Rangers is a travesty. How an earth this sport doesn't have a Manchester named club is just unbelievable.

People think you are slagging off Salford when you say this but Velopark is the complete opposite side of Manchester, AJ Bell is a terribly located ground for Salford and Manchester versus Salford should be built to be a sell out for Salford in the same way Wigan vs St Helens is the rivalry. 

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1 minute ago, ShropshireBull said:

People think you are slagging off Salford when you say this but Velopark is the complete opposite side of Manchester, AJ Bell is a terribly located ground for Salford and Manchester versus Salford should be built to be a sell out for Salford in the same way Wigan vs St Helens is the rivalry. 

Well a lot of Salford fans say themselves that they are seperate from Manchester

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1 minute ago, The Daddy said:

Well a lot of Salford fans say themselves that they are seperate from Manchester

Exactly, you wouldn't merge St and Wigan but give Salford someone to hate and we could have another great rivalry game on our hands. 

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17 minutes ago, The Daddy said:

Spot on. What happened to Manchester Rangers is a travesty. How an earth this sport doesn't have a Manchester named club is just unbelievable.

Balls. They gave up too easily

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4 hours ago, Markos said:

I don’t disagree with this at all.

I’ve often read through threads (often the Toronto based chats) and not posted for fear of being labelled anti-expansionist. I’m not, but sometimes I look at how they try to do it, and think it’s a bit of a stretch when we haven’t successfully squeezed everything out of the UK and France

Super League with a Manchester, Newcastle and possibly even Liverpool (though probably unwise due to strong teams in the catchment) and Sheffield teams would look a bit more big time than it currently is. A bit more appealing to the casual fan?

All arguably doable with the right support from the powers that be 

From a community game point of view if cities like Sheffield, Liverpool, Manchester and Newcastle werd targetted for junior development alongside the traditional heartland areas then RL would be in a much stronger position and would provide a strong base for potential new clubs in Manchester and Liverpool in the future

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20 hours ago, Gerrumonside ref said:

Fold the two big football clubs that dominate everyone’s attention there?

Either that or create an RL counterpart of those two clubs to play in a league suited to such a club.

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It would be good if there was a forward thinking club in the area (could call them say Manchester Rangers) who were doing loads of work in the community and schools, and wanted to put a men’s team in League One. I bet the RFL would be really supportive of that.

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21 minutes ago, JM2010 said:

From a community game point of view if cities like Sheffield, Liverpool, Manchester and Newcastle werd targetted for junior development alongside the traditional heartland areas then RL would be in a much stronger position and would provide a strong base for potential new clubs in Manchester and Liverpool in the future

Newcastle already is tbf. I don’t think it would ever happen in Liverpool, but Sheffield yes if there was money to be put into it. 

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